💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
I'm a member of an HOA that has never made quorum since the turn-over meeting. The perennial Board gives the minimum required notice for the AM&E and makes no effort to hold an election. The management company does mail out general proxies each year, but our Bylaws specify that only limited proxies may be used. Some of us are getting tired of this Board so I'm looking at options to actually make quorum and have an election.

Our Bylaws are somewhat confusing:

"Proxies. At all meetings of members, each member may vote in person or by limited proxy. All proxies shall be in writing and filed with the secretary. To be valid, a proxy must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. Every proxy shall be effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy
is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the homeowner who executes it. Limited proxies may also be used for votes taken to amend the Articles or Bylaws or for any matter that requires or permits a votes of the homeowners."

For election of the Board,

"Section 2. Election. Election to the Board of Directors shall be by secret written ballot. At such election the members or their proxies may cast, in respect to each vacancy, as many votes as they are entitled to exercise under the provisions of the Declaration. The persons receiving the largest number of votes shall be elected. Cumulative voting is not permitted.

Section 3. Use of Proxy. For election of members of the Board of Directors, members of the Association shall vote in person at a meeting of the homeowners or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts."

My take from this is that:

1) I could draft a limited proxy that instructs the proxy holder to nominate and vote for certain people for the board.
2) If we then get X number of members to execute these proxies, in addition to the X proxies adding to the number attending the AM&E for quorum purposes, the proxy holder, bringing X proxies to the AM&E, would be entitled to vote a secret ballot on behalf of each of those proxies. i.e. if I show up as the proxy holder for 50 members, I vote 51 ballots (mine, and 50 proxies).

Sections 2 and 3, taken together are confusing. 3, though it's called "Proxies", says that members have to vote in person or by a ballot personally cast by the homeowner. Section 2 says "members or their proxies may cast [ballots]." So, Section 2 certainly implies that BoD election ballots can be cast by a proxy holder.

So, would it be appropriate to draft a simple limited proxy instructing the proxy holder, Jack, to vote for Joe, Mary, and Sue for the BoD, and then expect the BoD to allow Jack to cast X+1 ballots in the election?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You could put the names on the ballot and tell the homeowner to select whoever he/she wants – you should probably include a space where he/she could write in another choice if desired.However, your bigger problem is getting people to participate and unless that changes, it won’t matter what you write on the proxy/ballot if no one turns it in or shows up at the meeting when the election is held.

If you and other homeowners are “getting tired of this board”, you need to run for a position, meaning you'll have to get out and walk the community, introducing yourself and telling people you’re running for the board and why. Encourage them to participate, either by sending in the ballot or by showing up at the meeting. Remind them again as the meeting date gets closer.

Tell your board you’re running for a spot and suggest some sort of meet the candidates meeting before the meeting so you can make your case in person. Or, your website or newsletter (preferably both) could list the candidates who would introduce themselves and explain what they’d bring to the board if elected.

Next, offer to work with the board on the instructions it sends to homeowners to make sure they understand what the proxy is for and how to fill it out so it’ll do whatever the homeowner wants it to do. For example in our association, the homeowner can make the selection and authorize the board president to vote for those people on his/her behalf or appoint someone to attend the meeting and do it. The homeowner should be looking at the proxy to ensure it will do what he/she wants. My association lists the instructions in the letter accompanying the proxy, reminding people they can always choose to show up and cast their vote in person, thus cancelling the proxy.

If your bylaws say it, you’ll also want to remind people that only those in good standing with paying assessessments can vote and/or run for the board. If it’s one vote per home, those with multiple owners will have to decide among themselves who will complete and sign the proxy, or if they show up, only one can cast a vote. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Welcome to the forums, ArtL1. Your interpretation sounds about right, with a few things worth mentioning.

1. Yes. Here is a SAMPLE LIMITED PROXY FORM promulgated by the state's DBPR. Do note that it's geared for FS 718 Condo associations and will need to be tailored for your specific needs, i.e. candidates for the board of directors in an election. Unfortunately, the state's sample proxy isn't written to include election ballot instructions, but that is easily rectified.

2. I'm confused by, "... in addition to the X proxies adding to the number attending the AM&E for quorum purposes," but in context, yes, a proxyholder is given a ballot which he or she fills out and casts just as they would cast their own.

Section 3 contradicts Section 2. It also says, "... shall vote in person ... or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts". Voting in person and personally casting a ballot are the same thing so that either/or choice is a false one.

You might think about amending your bylaws to get rid of Section 3.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 02/07/2017 1:12 PM
Welcome to the forums, ArtL1. Your interpretation sounds about right, with a few things worth mentioning.

1. Yes. Here is a SAMPLE LIMITED PROXY FORM promulgated by the state's DBPR. Do note that it's geared for FS 718 Condo associations and will need to be tailored for your specific needs, i.e. candidates for the board of directors in an election. Unfortunately, the state's sample proxy isn't written to include election ballot instructions, but that is easily rectified.

2. I'm confused by, "... in addition to the X proxies adding to the number attending the AM&E for quorum purposes," but in context, yes, a proxyholder is given a ballot which he or she fills out and casts just as they would cast their own.

Section 3 contradicts Section 2. It also says, "... shall vote in person ... or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts". Voting in person and personally casting a ballot are the same thing so that either/or choice is a false one.

You might think about amending your bylaws to get rid of Section 3.

What I meant in 2. is that the limited proxies count both toward making quorum and assuming the proxy holder is a voting member of the HOA, the proxy holder would vote their own ballot and one additional ballot for each proxy. So, 50 proxies would result in 51 ballots being cast by one person (following the voting instructions of the 50 proxies).

I kind of wonder if the "or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts" was meant to cover voting by mail? But AFAIK, the Bylaws would have to explicitly permit that, and ours don't (only in person or by limited proxy). Proxies have been sent out in the past (both for the turnover meeting and subsequent AM&E's) with instructions that they be placed in a "proxy envelope" inside the return envelope in accordance with 720.306(8)(b). This, I assume, is another case of the management company and/or Board getting it wrong and confusing proxies with mail-in ballots.

I'd already found the DBPR's sample proxy, and used that as a guide for drafting my own, basically adding to the "mid section"

I SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZE AND INSTRUCT MY PROXYHOLDER TO CAST MY VOTE IN REFERENCE TO THE FOLLOWING MATTERS AS INDICATED BELOW:

Nomination and Election of Board of Directors for :

__ ____________ __ ____________ __ ____________

__ ____________ __ ____________ __ ____________

My plan is to have 3 candidate names printed on the proxy, and leave 3 blanks so that if someone wants to write in other names, they can.

Amending the bylaws and restrictions is my main motivation for running for the Board. To say our documents were hacked together by an idiot would be generous. Unless the Board wants this done (does several mailings of proxies/reminders asking the members to vote), I don't think it'll ever get done.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree that "Section 3 contradicts Section 2. It also says, "... shall vote in person ... or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts."

Even if your Bylaws don't permit voting by mail (which is permitted by CA laws), perhaps FL state law permits it. I see references to 720 & 718, but don't know which applied to you--I think one is for condos; Geno will know.

sheila offers some good ideas. aAlso, if you have a clubhouse or meeting room, reserves it and hold your own campaign event with the two who you'd like to serve with. Offer cookies & coffee or wine & cheese, or?

How many homes in your HOA, Art? Condos or detached homes? How many on the board? Do you have a property mgr.?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Section 3. Use of Proxy. For election of members of the Board of Directors, members of the Association shall vote in person at a meeting of the homeowners or by a ballot that the homeowner personally casts."

If this above is correct ... Potentially proxy cannot be used for electing the Board of Directors. Above states all homeowners must personally cast the ballot either in person or potentially via mail, if your docs allow.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Potentially need to go to appropriate state law to clarify the governing documents. Parts of the state law for elections can override the documents, unless they defer. But if you have conflicts in the documents I would defer to the laws.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Hahaha, it sounds like the same people that hacked together your documents also did ours.

It's true that many, many people confuse proxies with mail-in ballots. It's common to have a "mixed" proxy form, i.e. both general and limited. In the "general" section, a checkbox is sometimes provided to indicate the proxy may be used to count towards a quorum. Condo associations use mixed/hybrid general/limited proxies a lot in Florida because FS 718 says general proxies cannot be used for elections of directors. There is no corresponding restriction in FS 720 for HOAs.

THIS BLOG ENTRY is short but very informative. It opines that if an HOA wants to adopt the "standard" condo election procedures then they must be authorized in the governing documents.

It shouldn't be complicated... but it is. My biggest worry was getting homeowners to understand the difference between ballots, proxies and absentee ballots (for the purpose of amending our Bylaws). I never got that far since it was not possible to even get the board of directors to understand the differences.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Our Bylaws say nothing about voting by mail, absentee ballot, or without being present, so I assume the only ways to vote are in person or by limited proxy since:

"Section 5. Proxies. At all meetings of members, each member may vote in person or by limited proxy. All proxies shall be in writing and filed with the secretary. To be valid, a proxy must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. Every proxy shall be effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the homeowner who executes it. Limited proxies may also be used for votes taken to amend the Articles or
Bylaws or for any matter that requires or permits a votes of the homeowners.
"

and

"Section 2. Election. Election to the Board of Directors shall be by secret written ballot. At such election the members or their proxies may cast, in respect to each vacancy, as many votes as they are entitled to exercise under the provisions of the Declaration. The persons receiving the largest number of votes shall be elected. Cumulative voting is not permitted."

The problem I hope to avoid, but expect, is that the Board is quite set in their ways (rolling over) and the HOA's attorney has repeatedly given them off the wall advice. I really don't want to resort to taking the HOA to arbitration over election procedures / interpretation of our Bylaws / state law...but getting enough people to show up and vote in person just doesn't seem likely, and I'm worried that the Board and their attorney will declare my proxies invalid and not allow me to vote the proxies. OTOH, if they're at least honored for making quorum, we'd at least be able to have an election and might be able to persuade those present that it's time for a change of leadership.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
How many homes are in your HOA? I think it's easier in small-ish associations to drum up suppoort for things than it is in very large ones.

In almost every HOA dispute in Florida the route is going through mandatory mediation and then, if there's no resolution, to court. THE ONE EXCEPTION is election disputes which are arbitrated through the DBPR. It still costs money but it's nowhere near as expensive as pursuing a lawsuit. A good resource is this DBPR arbitration search page. If you click on the "Online Search for General Orders" and type in "proxies", for instance, you'll be able to access a plethora of past DBPR election dispute arbitration cases. Most of the decisions are less than 10 pages long and relatively easy to understand. I have found some really interesting things there over the past couple of years.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
There's certainly some entertaining reading in the final orders.

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/arbitration/allorders/2008065770_000.pdf
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I had read that one a few months ago. In essence it's OK to entice people to send in their proxies in return for a chance to win prizes in a (possibly illegal) lottery.

I think you're on the right track and the arbitration rulings are pretty consistent where dodgy elections and questionable board decisions regarding proxies are concerned. Where HOAs are concerned the arbitrators stick pretty close to whatever the association's governing documents say. Or don't say.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I love Proxies but they are often misunderstood and used improperly, especially by BOD's looking to stay in power.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Art ... Which section of the Florida State Statutes does your HOA fall under?
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
If I understand your question, 720. It's an HOA...not a condo.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I'm with Geno ... in future you may want to amend and eliminate Section 3. However, if you are going to replace the BOD you might want to try and follow at this time to avoid it being used against you. If you are going to go around and obtain proxies can you not also go around with ballots and envelopes and complete them following the docs and state laws? Also, get proxies to insure a quorum for the meeting. These are the sections of 720 I was looking at:

720.306 Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.—
(1) QUORUM; AMENDMENTS.—
(a) Unless a lower number is provided in the bylaws, the percentage of voting interests required to constitute a quorum at a meeting of the members shall be 30 percent of the total voting interests. Unless otherwise provided in this chapter or in the articles of incorporation or bylaws, decisions that require a vote of the members must be made by the concurrence of at least a majority of the voting interests present, in person or by proxy, at a meeting at which a quorum has been attained. A meeting of the members must be held at a location that is accessible to a physically handicapped person if requested by a physically handicapped person who has a right to attend the meeting.
(b) Unless otherwise provided in the governing documents or required by law, and other than those matters set forth in paragraph (c), any governing document of an association may be amended by the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the voting interests of the association. Within 30 days after recording an amendment to the governing documents, the association shall provide copies of the amendment to the members. However, if a copy of the proposed amendment is provided to the members before they vote on the amendment and the proposed amendment is not changed before the vote, the association, in lieu of providing a copy of the amendment, may provide notice to the members that the amendment was adopted, identifying the official book and page number or instrument number of the recorded amendment and that a copy of the amendment is available at no charge to the member upon written request to the association. The copies and notice described in this paragraph may be provided electronically to those owners who previously consented to receive notice electronically. The failure to timely provide notice of the recording of the amendment does not affect the validity or enforceability of the amendment.

(3) SPECIAL MEETINGS.—Special meetings must be held when called by the board of directors or, unless a different percentage is stated in the governing documents, by at least 10 percent of the total voting interests of the association. Business conducted at a special meeting is limited to the purposes described in the notice of the meeting.

(8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
(a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.
(b) If the governing documents permit voting by secret ballot by members who are not in attendance at a meeting of the members for the election of directors, such ballots must be placed in an inner envelope with no identifying markings and mailed or delivered to the association in an outer envelope bearing identifying information reflecting the name of the member, the lot or parcel for which the vote is being cast, and the signature of the lot or parcel owner casting that ballot. If the eligibility of the member to vote is confirmed and no other ballot has been submitted for that lot or parcel, the inner envelope shall be removed from the outer envelope bearing the identification information, placed with the ballots which were personally cast, and opened when the ballots are counted. If more than one ballot is submitted for a lot or parcel, the ballots for that lot or parcel shall be disqualified. Any vote by ballot received after the closing of the balloting may not be considered.

(9) ELECTIONS AND BOARD VACANCIES.—
(a) Elections of directors must be conducted in accordance with the procedures set forth in the governing documents of the association. Except as provided in paragraph (b), all members of the association are eligible to serve on the board of directors, and a member may nominate himself or herself as a candidate for the board at a meeting where the election is to be held; provided, however, that if the election process allows candidates to be nominated in advance of the meeting, the association is not required to allow nominations at the meeting. An election is not required unless more candidates are nominated than vacancies exist. Except as otherwise provided in the governing documents, boards of directors must be elected by a plurality of the votes cast by eligible voters. Any challenge to the election process must be commenced within 60 days after the election results are announced.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
We have several hundred homes in the HOA, so getting the numbers needed has been / will be difficult.
Quorum for a meeting of the members: 30% (only happened once, at the turnover meeting...and even then just barely)
Fraction of total voting interests needed to change the Bylaws: 2/3
Fraction of total voting interests needed to change the CC&R: 3/4

This is why I think making changes to either of these documents can only reasonably be accomplished by taking control of the Board and then either scheduling a special meeting of the members to amend the documents and announcing it months in advance, or by mailing proxies to members at least 2 months before the next annual meeting, followed by multiple re-mailings for those lots that haven't sent in a proxy in response to a previous mailing.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
At least the BOD election is the majority of votes as long as you meet the quorum . You just need to be sure to have enough to exceed those who might participate and calculate extra. Personally I like a larger percentage to amend documents. If everyone liked what they bought into then it should take a large majority to change. I feel it also curtails the sometimes rogue boards by making it difficult to amend.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
I'm happy to report "it worked." I drafted proxies based on the DBPR sample, and a couple of us made a real effort to collect them. I personally met about 1/3 of the neighborhood and collected 2/3 of what was needed to make quorum. With the proxies others collected, we had more than enough proxies to make quorum, plus a few dozen homes represented in person.

I did have to fill out a ballot for myself, and an additional one for each proxy. That took some time...basically copying voting instructions from the proxies to the ballots. I'd expected some resistance or shenanigans, but there was none.

So, now that I have this new job, one of the things I really want to get done is clean up our governing documents. That will be a heck of a lot easier if we can use some form of electronic voting. Depending on which document we want to change, we need either 66 or 75% of the members to vote for the change. There's some question/confusion as to what's necessary for us to utilize e-voting. The previous board had looked into it, and AFAIK, the advice they got from the HOA attorney (who, BTW, I think is incompetent) was that we had to amend our Bylaws to use electronic voting.

Having read our docs and FS 720.317, I'm not convinced that's accurate. One of the attorney's hang-ups has been our docs lack Kaufman langauge. From research I did after last year's AM(and no)E, I know that Kaufman language is irrelevant when the new law is only a procedural change. Voting procedures don't affect anyone's property rights, so I don't see why 720.317 wouldn't apply to us.

There is the section of our bylaws covering proxies:

"Proxies. At all meetings of members, each member may vote in person or by limited proxy."

If those are the only ways a member is allowed to vote, then would that actually need to be changed to allow for advance electronic voting? A possible loophole in this would be "electronic proxying." i.e. If we were to use one of the electronic voting systems that generates an electronic limited proxy assigning the HOA secretary as proxy holder, that would seem to me to accomplish the same thing without any question of it violating our bylaws.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 11/18/2017 2:08 PM
I'm happy to report "it worked." I drafted proxies based on the DBPR sample, and a couple of us made a real effort to collect them. I personally met about 1/3 of the neighborhood and collected 2/3 of what was needed to make quorum. With the proxies others collected, we had more than enough proxies to make quorum, plus a few dozen homes represented in person.

I did have to fill out a ballot for myself, and an additional one for each proxy. That took some time...basically copying voting instructions from the proxies to the ballots. I'd expected some resistance or shenanigans, but there was none.

Excellent news, Art! Thanks for the update. Chalk up another success story under the "it takes work but it can be done" category. That's really great news.

I also thought that electronic voting required authorization in the Bylaws but looking at FS 720 it seems as though that's not true. FS 720.317(4) says, "This section applies to an association that provides for and authorizes an online voting system pursuant to this section by a board resolution." There's more to it but apparently a board resolution is enough, no Bylaws amendment required. Isn't it great to have attorneys who are so on the ball?

At first I was sure that e-voting for community associations was a bad idea, but the services being offered are not cost prohibitive and seem to provide adequate security so my thinking has evolved. I think for your association, where getting a quorum together is a challenge, e-voting is ideal. I agree that a procedural change to the voting method used isn't something that requires Kauffman language in your documents (I'm not an attorney, though).

My HOA's Bylaws say almost the same thing re. voting in person or by proxy (ours doesn't specify 'limited'). There's an informative article online HERE that used to be on Becker & Poliakoff's website. Unfortunately they completely re-designed their site and a ton of useful blog posts and articles have gone missing. That link shows an archived version that suggests absentee mail-in balloting has to be authorized in the bylaws. That's something I want to get into my HOA's bylaws as well since my HOA has been using absentee mail-in ballots for years, apparently in contradiction of our Bylaws which say "in person or by proxy" only.

In Florida condos, general proxies may not be used for board elections. That's also something I'd like to change in my HOA's documents, perhaps you might consider that also. Proxies are relatively easy to game and abuse. With electronic voting and/or anonymous mail-in balloting there's really no need for them.

Thanks again for the update. Please keep us posted about your progress. Florida HOA living as a whole improves every time someone like yourself steps up for positive change.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I liked your good news too, Art. I'm thinking you might get additional useful advice from FL posters if you start a new thread on electronic voting. Geno's a good resource, but there are a couple of others who might help too.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Awesome ... Thank You for the update. You already have practice on how to get your needed votes ... so I think you have very high probability of any and all future success!!!

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here