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DennisR8 (New York)
Posts: 4
Posted:
These are how the covenants read in regards to special assessments and the meeting to vote for it:

----------
Section 4. Special Assessments for Capital Improvements [abbreviated]
...the Association may levy in any assessment year a uniform special assessment...
..., provided that any such assessment shall have the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of each class of Members who are voting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose, of which shall be sent to all Members at least thirty (30) days in advance, and which set forth the purpose of the meeting.

Section 6. Quorum for any Action Authorized Under Sections 4 and 5.
The quorum required for any action authorized by Sections 4 and 5 of this Article V shall be as follows: At the first meeting called, as provided in Sections 4 and 5 of this Article V, the presence at the meeting of Members, or of proxies, entitled to cast sixty percent (60%) of all the votes of each class of membership shall constitute a quorum. If the required quorum is not forthcoming at any meeting, another meeting may be called, subject to the notice requirements set forth in Sections 4 and 5, and the required quorum at such subsequent meeting shall be one-half (1/2) of the required quorum at the preceding meeting, provided that such subsequent meeting shall not be held more than sixty (60) days following the preceding meeting.
----------

Here is the letter they sent to notify homeowners of the meeting to vote for assessment (abbreviated)

---------
...In case a quorum is not reached during our first vote on January 11th, we will hold addition meetings for subsequent voting until a quorum is reach. All meetings will held at the [...] meeting room on the following schedule:
January 19 at 8 pm January 27 at 8 pm February 3 at 8 pm
---------

So, here's the issue/question:
The letter they sent did come by mail at least 30 days prior to the first meeting. But, note that it mentions dates for subsequent meetings should a quorum not be reached at a meeting. Three meetings have passed with no quorum reached; each time the board sent out only an email one or two days prior to the subsequent meeting saying that the quorum was not reached, and that the next meeting would be held. Can they do that? Section 6 reads "If the required quorum is not forthcoming at any meeting, another meeting may be called, subject to the notice requirements set forth in Sections 4 and 5". So,shouldn't they give another 30 day written notice for subsequent meetings?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It appears they may have been trying to save money by using the first notice to announce the next three dates in case the first one didn't accomplish its goal, so I don't see a problem with this letter. I do think it would have been better to send out an email notifying everyone that the next meeting would take place because they didn't reach quorum for the previous one. A meeting is scheduled for Feb. 3 (tomorrow), so go to that meeting, if you can and see what happens. If they fail to make quorum again, they will have to send another formal notice 30 days in advance.

The larger issue is the need for a special assessment - since quorum hasn't been reached, it would appear no one's crazy about the idea and know if enough people skip the meeting, it won't be held and no vote will be taken. Your board may want to revisit the idea - why it's necessary and what happens if the homeowners don't approve it. Educate the homeowners accordingly and perhaps schedule a town hall meeting or two where people can ask questions. THEN schedule another vote and perhaps consider accepting ballots by mail, if your documents allow it. If it still doesn't work, the board will have to accept that the homeowners have spoken and go on from there.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Forgot to say the email should have been sent the next day instead of waiting a day or two before the next meeting - otherwise people wouldn't know whether they should come or not

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DennisR8 on 02/02/2017 9:04 AM
These are how the covenants read in regards to special assessments and the meeting to vote for it:

----------
Section 4. Special Assessments for Capital Improvements [abbreviated]
...the Association may levy in any assessment year a uniform special assessment...
..., provided that any such assessment shall have the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of each class of Members who are voting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose, of which shall be sent to all Members at least thirty (30) days in advance, and which set forth the purpose of the meeting.

Section 6. Quorum for any Action Authorized Under Sections 4 and 5.
The quorum required for any action authorized by Sections 4 and 5 of this Article V shall be as follows: At the first meeting called, as provided in Sections 4 and 5 of this Article V, the presence at the meeting of Members, or of proxies, entitled to cast sixty percent (60%) of all the votes of each class of membership shall constitute a quorum. If the required quorum is not forthcoming at any meeting, another meeting may be called, subject to the notice requirements set forth in Sections 4 and 5, and the required quorum at such subsequent meeting shall be one-half (1/2) of the required quorum at the preceding meeting, provided that such subsequent meeting shall not be held more than sixty (60) days following the preceding meeting.
----------

Here is the letter they sent to notify homeowners of the meeting to vote for assessment (abbreviated)

---------
...In case a quorum is not reached during our first vote on January 11th, we will hold addition meetings for subsequent voting until a quorum is reach. All meetings will held at the [...] meeting room on the following schedule:
January 19 at 8 pm January 27 at 8 pm February 3 at 8 pm
---------

So, here's the issue/question:
The letter they sent did come by mail at least 30 days prior to the first meeting. But, note that it mentions dates for subsequent meetings should a quorum not be reached at a meeting. Three meetings have passed with no quorum reached; each time the board sent out only an email one or two days prior to the subsequent meeting saying that the quorum was not reached, and that the next meeting would be held. Can they do that? Your question is answered via the bold text above. Section 6 reads "If the required quorum is not forthcoming at any meeting, another meeting may be called, subject to the notice requirements set forth in Sections 4 and 5". So,shouldn't they give another 30 day written notice for subsequent meetings? I would contend Yes, but that is just based on how I read the information above ... we are not attorneys.


JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Also, keep in mind the Section 6 you posted refers to both Section 4 and 5. You only posted information from Section 4. Therefore, the Section 5 may have information we are not aware of and which can affect your questions.
DennisR8 (New York)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks for the replies.

Section 5 is regarding annual assessment:

----
Section 5. Change in Basis and Maximum of Annual Assessments. Subject to the limitations of Section 3 of this Article V, the Association may change the maximum and basis of the assessments fixed by Section 3 hereof prospectively, provided that any such change shall have the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of each class of Members who are voting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose, written notice of which shall be sent to all Members at least thirty (30) days in advance and which shall set forth the purpose of the meeting.
----

The notice requirements are the same.
DennisR8 (New York)
Posts: 4
Posted:
RE: " no one's crazy about the idea and know if enough people skip the meeting, it won't be held and no vote will be taken. "

There is definitely apathy on the part of home owners. However, I'm concerned that the board uses that as a tactic: based on the subsequent quorum reductions (1/2 of prior), the very last meeting only requires 18 members to be a quorum, and thus only 2/3rd of that to accept; thus as little as 12 'yes' votes could accept it. (there are about 275 eligible households).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Dennis

I read it as they must have 2/3rds of all a owners to assent (agree), not just 2/3rds of a quorum.

This "confusion" seems to have been going around lately especially by new posters.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I read it as 2/3 of the votes or proxies delivered to a meeting that quorum is present.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DennisR8 on 02/02/2017 9:04 AM

Section 4. Special Assessments for Capital Improvements [abbreviated]
...the Association may levy in any assessment year a uniform special assessment...
..., provided that any such assessment shall have the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of each class of Members who are voting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose, of which shall be sent to all Members at least thirty (30) days in advance, and which set forth the purpose of the meeting.

I read as 2/3 of each "class" voting in person or by proxy at the meeting. Interesting it does not state 2/3 of all members eligible to vote.

Dennis ... Do you have different class votes?
DennisR8 (New York)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I believe that there is currently only one class of voters. When the developers originated the covenants (almost 50 years ago), I believe that they were considered the other class, but they went away after all houses were aquired. I can copy/paste that portion if you're really interested. (My main concern is with interpreting the requirements of notifications.)

The section states "...assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of [] Members who are voting in person or by proxy...".
So, I think that that is pretty clear on who the "two-thirds" applies to - those "who are voting" - i.e the quorum.

And I also believe that "another meeting may be called, subject to the notice requirements set forth in Sections 4 and 5", clearly indicates that the same "notice requirements" need to be met for each subsequent meeting.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Dennis ... Thank you for the quick clarification. I agree the class votes noted was most likely for the developer who is no longer in the picture (LOL ... if 50 years ago I do not need the text). I also agree with you regarding the voting questions you have asked and as I have noted above.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Keep in mind that a quorum is the minimal number needed to conduct business.

There can (and often are) more then the minimal number voting on hot issues.
Sometimes, there are not.

Dennis pointed out that Approval requires two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of each class of Members who are voting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose. Not 2/3 of a quorum.

Example: Development is 100 lots, quorum is 60, 40 lots are represented in person or by proxy at a meeting - Quorum not reached - vote can not happen.

If quorum is not reached, at the next meeting the quorum requirement is cut in half.
Hence: Development is 100 lots, quorum is now 30, 40 lots are represented in person or by proxy at a meeting, 35 votes are cast.

2/3 of membership is 66.6
2/3 of the quorum is 20
2/3 of members present is 26.6
2/3 of the votes cast is 23.3

Since approval is based on votes cast, there would need to be 24 yea votes in the above example to approve.

I've been involved in a similar situation.
However, our documents specified that the next meeting must be held within a specific time frame and a new notice be sent. This option was used when we increased assessments by 20% to fund the reserves.

Therefore, regardless if you support or oppose a measure, it's important to vote. Otherwise, depending on the wording of the governing docs (and using the above example) 24 people can make a decision that effect 100.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Tim ... LOL ... I read same as you. As I think about it that is potentially one way to take care of apathy issues which can affect HOA's. Essentially if owners do not care to participate ... you can eventually end up with what you get.

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