ASK THE EXPERT: Satellite dish placement in HOAs and condos

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hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603

Posted:

Opportunity for HOATalk members to get free expert advice:

HOATalk is happy to introduce our new sponsor, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association (SBCA).

The SBCA's mission is to provide education for consumers and communities on satellite dish placement. They have provided some basic information and links below.

Feel free to ask questions or have a discussion by posting a reply. Our friends from the SBCA will be happy to answer your questions.

Answers on satellite dish placement in HOAs and condos:

Who we are:

Founded in
1986, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association (SBCA)
is the national trade organization representing the consumer satellite
industry. The Association provides education and assistance to
consumers, property managers and HOA’s regarding satellite placement
issues.

SBCA, OTARD and the FCC:

Satellite
television, interactive content and high speed satellite internet have
long been extremely popular home and multiple unit technology
alternatives. Oftentimes, we find that consumers run into issues
regarding their ability to install and enjoy satellite service whether
it is video or broadband. In addition many landlords, property managers
and HOA boards have questions regarding satellite dish placement. SBCA
works with these parties help them understand the regulations.

The
Over-the-Air Reception Device (OTARD) is the Federal rules used by the
consumer satellite industry regarding installation, maintenance and use
of satellite antenna dishes. The Federal Communications Commission (the
FCC) is responsible for administering these rules, and ensuring OTARD
guidelines are followed. SBCA works with the FCC to ensure that these
rules are followed.

Important information to know about OTARD:

The
OTARD Rule applies to most state and local laws and landlord or
community association rules that contain antenna restrictions that:

* Unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use
* Unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use
* Preclude a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the Rule

A consumer’s use of a covered dish antenna is protected by the OTARD Rule if:

* Placement of a dish is in the resident’s (owner or renter) exclusive use area, such as a balcony, deck, garden, yard or patio

* Placement of a dish is wholly within the user’s exclusive use area

More SBCA resources:

For more information about the OTARD rule, or specific guidelines, SBCA has created multiple documents for your convenience:

* The FCC’s FAQ page:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule#Q

* SBCA’s one-page document about the rules: http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/SBCA_OTARD_flyer.pdf

* Dish placement diagram:
http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/DISH-PLACEMENT-DIAGRAM.PDF

For More information:

Do you need additional information about OTARD, the FCC guidelines and SBCA?
http://www.sbca.org/consumer-resources

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WayneN (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Our HOA in Florida is a mix of Single Family homes and connected townhomes ( all two story, side by side ) . I know that a Single Family Owner can place a Dish anywhere on his own building .
For a townhome can the HOA Prevent Sat Dishes from being installed on an outside wall ? The owners own the entire outside of their townhomes but the outside walls all connect

MeganK1 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Wayne,

I have a questions for you, is your townhome considered a "condo" in your contract? Specifically, does the HOA own or maintain the shared walls?

Thank you!

Megan Kueck
Manager, State and Local Affairs
Satellite Broadcasting & Communications Association

WayneN (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

they are not condos and each owner insures the outside of the walls but the HOA is responsible to paint them if that makes sense

MeganK1 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Maintenance by the HOA does not equal ownership. So, I would say that you could put them on the building, but to do it in what would be considered “personal use space.”

Here are some additional information about the FCC's guidelines and other SBCA resources:

http://sbca.org/consumer-resources
https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule#Q
http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/SBCA_OTARD_flyer.pdf
http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/DISH-PLACEMENT-DIAGRAM.PDF

Megan Kueck
Manger, State and Local Affairs
Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association (SBCA)

WayneN (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Thank you and that makes sense . Now would a tenant need an owners written permission to install a dish on the building

MeganK1 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Are you living in the townhome and renting from someone? Or do you mean written permission from the HOA?

WayneN (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

I meant if a tenant was renting a two house can the HOA require the tenant to get and submit a written letter from the landlord that the landlord is allowing the sat dish install

MeganK1 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 4

Posted:

This is directly from our consumer resources website:

http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/SBCA_OTARD_flyer.pdf

As long as it is your "personal use space," they cannot unreasonably delay instillation, and generally cannot require approval or a permit.

Megan

WayneN (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Thanks for the info

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Wayne,

Megan can correct me if I am incorrect, it is my understanding that although the an HOA (vs. COA) can not prohibit the installation of the dish, they can specify that they be mounted in specific areas providing that an acceptable signal level can be received.

For example:

They can say that you must first try to mount the dish in the rear yard, if that doesn't work, then on the rear portion of your roof so it is not seen from the street. If that doesn't work, then it can be mounted in the front area of the property.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Having looked at this issue a bit lately, my understanding is that, essentially, an owner can put the dish anywhere they want. All the owner has to do is state in writing that that location is the only one that provides a satisfactory signal. An association cannot demand "professional" installation, and any action, demand or request that would result in extra delay or cost to the home/unit owner is improper.

KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18

Posted:

I am very glad to see this post. Just 10 minutes ago, one of my neighbors advised that our board discussed in a recent meeting restricting any new satellite dishes. They are under the impression they may prevent residents from accessing local utilities. It's difficult for me to believe that could in any way be real.

All the best,
Kay

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Karen, if the satellite industry can be of assistance please let us know. We spend considerable time educating HOA's on the federal regulations. Happy to help.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Karen, if the satellite industry can be of assistance please let us know. We spend considerable time educating HOA's on the federal regulations. Happy to help.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Karen, if the satellite industry can be of assistance please let us know. We spend considerable time educating HOA's on the federal regulations. Happy to help.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 02/18/2017 6:25 PM
Having looked at this issue a bit lately, my understanding is that, essentially, an owner can put the dish anywhere they want. All the owner has to do is state in writing that that location is the only one that provides a satisfactory signal. An association cannot demand "professional" installation, and any action, demand or request that would result in extra delay or cost to the home/unit owner is improper.

My condo HOA has a rule stating that the installation and removal of dishes must be done by a professional, due to the only viable areas for installation being the roofs, which are considered common elements and prohibited for unit owners to go up on. But you're saying, based on your interpretation, that they can't require that?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

The FCC's OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a community association or jointly by condominium owners (which may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit). An owner or tenant has the right to install an antenna on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

So, what happens when the only areas where they can be installed and get reception are common areas, because installing them on the exterior LCEs won't work?

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

The HOA can prohibit installation of a satellite dish if it is in a common area. Depending on the type of structure it is possible to have one satellite dish serve more than one customer. Typically this application would be used in buildings that would house 8 or more units where we would install a single dish and provide service to all of the residents.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

So if I'm reading this right, an HOA can effectively ban satellite dishes if the only place where they can be installed (and work properly) is a common area, since they have the right to prohibit installation in common areas.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

That is correct.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

What about amateur "ham" radio antenna. My CC&R's prohibit any antenna over 36" tall, but I did get an approval for a vertical that is 48".
I wish the senate would pass HR 555. I would like to instal a 23' vertical for HF, but I can settle on a dipole that is 12' wide mounted on a satellite dish mount on the peal of the home. The antenna being 12' wide is under the 36" tall covenant. Do you think this would pose an issue If I seek BOD approval?

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

The OTARD rule stipulates that a satellite dish cannot be more than 39" in diameter, there is no regulation on height. I do not beleive the rule covers ham radio antenna's.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

The OTARD ruling does not apply to ham radio antennas.

See: https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

On that sites FAQ page is the following:

Q: I want to install an antenna for broadcast radio or amateur radio. Does the rule apply to me?

A: No. The rule does not apply to antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur ("ham") radio (see 47 C.F.R. §97.15), Citizen's Band ("CB") radio or Digital Audio Radio Services ("DARS").

AdrianaS (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We have had our satellite dish in the ground in a common area right outside our condo for seven years. It is the only place we can get reception and was approved by the HOA at the time. Now a new board wants to ban all satellite dishes and has ordered us to remove it. Can they override a previous board's decision?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Since it is on common area, probably.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Since the dish is located in a common area the association can prohibit installation. New technology is designed to serve multifamily properties with a single dish. We would need more info on the type of property, number of users etc. You can contact us directly at [email protected] and we can try to find a solution.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Is this topic a paid sponsored one? The board of directors of SBCA is a veritable who's who of the industry. DISH, DIRECTV, and Hughes are represented on its board. This is an industry consortium that essentially wrote the FCC's OTARD rule. Government for sale, in other words.

If SBCA paid for this thread to be stickied at the top of hoatalk's forums, then that's fine.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Geno,

The very first post in this thread from the moderator specified that the group is a sponsor of HOATalk.

If you have an issue with any sponsor of the site, who I expect pay to keep this site free, why not take it up with the moderators directly?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Nope, no issue. Their site, their rules. I didn't notice all the special formatting in the OP so my bad. They are a paid sponsor and that's fine.

AnthonyS5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

All we ask in our community is that installation of a Satellite dish be installed at the rear portion of the home and must be either on the roof, or at least seven feet above the ground if mounted on the side wall of a home. Also no in ground poles are to be installed.

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

? Why not also require that the installation meet all building codes ?

case in point: coastal southeast USA with a class II wind z 130 mph for 2 minute resistance

oops, there I go spouting FACTS again

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

HOA's can require that all building codes are met.

RayM7 (Arizona)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By hoatalk on 01/31/2017 9:02 AM
Opportunity for HOATalk members to get free expert advice:

HOATalk is happy to introduce our new sponsor, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association (SBCA).

The SBCA's mission is to provide education for consumers and communities on satellite dish placement. They have provided some basic information and links below.

Feel free to ask questions or have a discussion by posting a reply. Our friends from the SBCA will be happy to answer your questions.

Answers on satellite dish placement in HOAs and condos:

Who we are:

Founded in
1986, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association (SBCA)
is the national trade organization representing the consumer satellite
industry. The Association provides education and assistance to
consumers, property managers and HOA’s regarding satellite placement
issues.

SBCA, OTARD and the FCC:

Satellite
television, interactive content and high speed satellite internet have
long been extremely popular home and multiple unit technology
alternatives. Oftentimes, we find that consumers run into issues
regarding their ability to install and enjoy satellite service whether
it is video or broadband. In addition many landlords, property managers
and HOA boards have questions regarding satellite dish placement. SBCA
works with these parties help them understand the regulations.

The
Over-the-Air Reception Device (OTARD) is the Federal rules used by the
consumer satellite industry regarding installation, maintenance and use
of satellite antenna dishes. The Federal Communications Commission (the
FCC) is responsible for administering these rules, and ensuring OTARD
guidelines are followed. SBCA works with the FCC to ensure that these
rules are followed.

Important information to know about OTARD:

The
OTARD Rule applies to most state and local laws and landlord or
community association rules that contain antenna restrictions that:

* Unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use
* Unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use
* Preclude a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the Rule

A consumer’s use of a covered dish antenna is protected by the OTARD Rule if:

* Placement of a dish is in the resident’s (owner or renter) exclusive use area, such as a balcony, deck, garden, yard or patio

* Placement of a dish is wholly within the user’s exclusive use area

More SBCA resources:

For more information about the OTARD rule, or specific guidelines, SBCA has created multiple documents for your convenience:

* The FCC’s FAQ page:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule#Q

* SBCA’s one-page document about the rules: http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/SBCA_OTARD_flyer.pdf

* Dish placement diagram:
http://sbca.org/sites/default/files/DISH-PLACEMENT-DIAGRAM.PDF

For More information:

Do you need additional information about OTARD, the FCC guidelines and SBCA?
http://www.sbca.org/consumer-resources

DavidF22 (New York)
Posts: 91

Posted:

I'm interested to know more, since my townhome complex in New York currently bans any satellite dishes and has actually ordered some homeowners to remove them. Please give me your opinion on whether dish antennas can be permitted, based on the information provided below. It sounds to me like they would be allowed as long as their size and placement conform to the city laws referenced below. If that is a case, can you refer me to a simple piece of literature, either from your association or from the FCC, that I can forward to my community's Board of Directors? Thanks!

Here is what our bylaws say:
"No television or radio antenna or any other type of receiving or transmitting antenna or structure shall be erected on the exterior of Homes or on any lot without the prior written consent of the Board of Directors." As mentioned above, the Board demands that the dishes be removed instead of giving consent.

Each home has an individual lot consisting of surrounding property. The lot is owned by the homeowner, not the Association. The remaining common land is owned jointly by all 56 homeowners. The homeowner owns the exterior siding of the home and is responsible for maintenance of the wood itself (due to rot, damage, etc.), but the Association is responsible for the painting of the siding. The homeowner owns the roof, but the Association is responsible for making repairs and replacing roofs. When roofs are replaced, the Association is given a warranty by the shingle manufacturer that does not cover leaks due to any roof openings, such as bathroom vents, skylights and bolts to hold down roof antennas. If it is determined that a leak comes from such an opening, the homeowner would be responsible for the cost of the repair and not the Association.

The city in which we live also has regulations, as follows:
Satellite television antennas.
No satellite television antenna shall be erected or constructed, except in conformance with the following regulations:
[Added 10-22-1985]
(1) Satellite antenna location.
(a) All proposed locations in any zone shall be subject to approval by the Planning Board.
(b) In any commercial, industrial or multifamily residential zone, such antenna may be located anywhere on the lot or building thereon.
(c) In a noncommercial or single-family zone, subject to the provisions contained herein, such antenna shall be located only in the rear yard of any lot. The proposed dish antenna shall not be closer to the rear property line than the height of said antenna nor closer to any side property line than the height of said antenna or the side yard setback requirement for the principal structure on the lot, whichever results in the greatest setback.

(2) Antenna size.
(a) In any zone, such antenna shall not exceed 10 feet in height, including any platform or structure upon which said antenna is mounted or affixed. Such antenna may not exceed six feet in diameter.
(b) Satellite television antennas shall be located and designed to reduce visual impact from surrounding properties at street level from public streets and not deny solar access to an abutting property. They shall be effectively screened by a special planting maintained in good condition, so that said antenna shall not be visible from any adjacent property or public street.
(c) Not more than one satellite television antenna shall be allowed upon any noncommercial or single-family lot, notwithstanding the size of said lot.
(d) All antennas and the construction and installation thereof shall conform to applicable City building code and electrical code regulations and requirements so as not to cause a hazard to life, limb or property because of structural impairment, disassembly or collapse.
(e) Antennas shall meet all manufacturers' specifications, be of noncombustible and corrosive-resistant material and be erected in a secure, wind- , snow- and storm-resistant manner.
(f) Every antenna must be adequately grounded for protection against a direct strike of lightning.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

A satellite dish which is less than 39" in diameter (which DIRECTV and DISH are) and mounted on the customers personal space such as a yard, deck or patio are permitted under the FCC's OTARD rule which was adopted in 1996.

The regulations for the city appear to be in response to large dish systems which were popular in the 80's and 90's. When small dish service became available the FCC adopted the OTARD rule to allow consumers to install these without undue regulation, permit or delay.

Below is a link to our website which describes the OTARD rule and provides links to the FCC regulation.

http://www.strongerwithsatellite.com/pages/OTARD-Dish-Placement.cfm

We would be happy to contact the HOA and the city to help them update their policies so that they comply with the FCC regulations and give residents the ability to install satellite service. If you have specific concerns email me directly at [email protected] and I will be happy to assist.

StevenH3 (District of Columbia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

HowardK
Posts: 6

Posted:

I just joined this website today.
I am very impressed with how others help each other here

)

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimM11 on 07/04/2017 8:12 PM
So, what happens when the only areas where they can be installed and get reception are common areas, because installing them on the exterior LCEs won't work?

They may NOT be installed.

JayF1 (Washington)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Hi There, our CCRs states this:

Section Eleven: Antennas, Satellite Reception. Satellite dishes of no more than one
meter in diameter or diagonal measurement are permitted on the Properties with ACC approval
of the location of the satellite dish in the manner described in Article Nine. Except as provided
above, no radio or television antenna or transmitting tower or satellite dish shall be installed
on the exterior of any home without the approval of the ACC obtained pursuant to Article Nine,
and a showing by the Owner that such installation will be visually shielded from the view of
the residents traveling upon streets located on the Properties.

I am on the Board and new to this. We have several homeowners that their satellite dish can be viewed from our streets. One has it directly attached to the front of his house. Does our CCRs conflict with current federal and local regulations? If so, any recourses recommended would be greatly appreciated.

JayF1 (Washington)
Posts: 52

Posted:

I forgot to mention. We are 40 house development.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jay,

Yes, your covenants are in conflict with federal regs. Therefore, that section of the covenants which is in conflict is unenforceable. There is no need to change that section unless the membership desires to. It simply is unenforceable.

JayF1 (Washington)
Posts: 52

Posted:

thanks, tim. I would suspect the one homeowner that has a disk in front of his house was in violation and must relocate somewhere in the back like the other homeowners. As long as he has managed service coverage after relocation should be good but that is not the case I guess.

It is an eyesore since the disk sticks out in front of his house and practically in front of his door due to the long walkway & coverage from the garage to his down to his front door.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jay,

Unless you happen to be an installer or engineer, stay out of where individuals must place their satellite dishes.

Depending on the bird(s) you are pointing at, the front might have been the only or simply the best location based on the installers experience.

Delaying, causing additional cost, etc. would be a violation of government regulations.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Unfortunately, everything Tim says is true. Professional installation is not required by OTARD and an owner can do their own installation if they wish.

JayF1 (Washington)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Thanks Tim and Gino. I did some research and this is what I found.

However, an association may:
A) prohibit satellite dishes in common areas;
B) prohibit satellite dishes bigger than one meter in diameter;
C) require prior approval of installation if necessary for safety or historic preservation purposes;
D) limit the number of satellite dishes per unit/home;4 and
E) make rules regarding placement preferences5 of satellite dishes, as long as the rules do not impair the right to install

any takes or input, greatly appreciate it!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I'll say it again: Unless you happen to be an installer or engineer, stay out of where individuals must place their satellite dishes.

The guidelines may specify that when ever possible the dish should be placed to not be seen from the street. However, depending on what satellite (bird) and the topography (line of sight) there may be no other choice.

If you didn't have the guideline at the time of the install, then you can't force the member to move their dish (you can ask, but you can't force).

JayF1 (Washington)
Posts: 52

Posted:

got it Tim. A proper recourse would be for the HOA to pay an expert dish installer to move it accordingly to meet our CCRs requirements. At least not in the front of his door. I suspect these dish installers don't know or care and just install them anywhere they want without disregard to HOA community. I would be surprised if they did that so they can charge to move it again.

Just thinking out of the box. In a nutshell, the expert dish installer we hire should find a location that meets all fed requirements. This doesn't cost the homeowner anything and in theory, this option will not degrade their satellite service.
What do you guys think???

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

I don't think that would be a proper recourse. Assuming the dish owners will have to pay a portion of the cost of hiring an expert dish installer, that is impermissible. I don't have a handy link but I remember reading about one condo building that installed a number of satellite dish brackets on the common roof so that unit owners would have a central location for dishes and a neat appearance could be maintained. It was ruled a no-go because the extra cable length needed to reach the roof imposed an unreasonable expense on the unit owners. One of our board members tried to float the idea that the potential for dishes to become airborne during a storm was a valid reason for us to deny dishes "due to safety concerns". Nice try.

What I have experienced here in my HOA is that you tell people there is very little the association can do to restrict or regulate owners who want to install a dish on their own property, and it's like talking to a brick wall. They don't want to believe it so they completely ignore you as if you didn't exist. It's quite remarkable how people who don't want to hear something refuse to listen.

I'm not accusing you of that - I think the OTARD rule should be shredded and then burned - but you should be very, very careful. You are treading on dangerous ground.

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