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MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I am new to condo living, and learning fast.
Upon attending my first BOD meeting in June, with open discussion before adjournment, one member was up voicing disagreement and storming out, and another up and pointing fingers at board for not communicating between each other. Second meeting, annual, similar results. The mowing contract was ask to be seen and Board President said it would be looked into{still not produced} and that if you want to make changes you know how to.
Do we have right to have copy of mowing contract? From what I read, I believe we do since not still under negotiation.
Upon reading Bylaws and Dec, I read it takes not less than 75% of the voting power of unit owners to pass an amendment. We have 52 units. Is this a number of those in person and by proxy at a meeting OR of all 52? {39}. Also, in Method to Amend, two officers need to sign. What if only one signs and records??
In August and September there was no member discussion permitted at meeting. Then beginning in October, Unit Owners are now no longer to be in attendance at BOD meetings. Can they do this?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Hi Mark,

I will say that what you experienced at your Board meeting is common for many annual meetings.
There can be a lot of complaining about how things are done but few who volunteer to be the ones willing to make those things happen.

To answer your questions:

Based on your posting, it will take 39 yea votes (75% of 52) to change your CC&Rs or Bylaws.

If only one Officer signs and records the paperwork to amend the document, it can be a basis to challenge that amendment. However, that challenge would be through the courts (something that can be costly in time, money and energy for both sides).
No guarantee that one would win on that technicality alone. Some States also have a time frame to challenge any amendment. You will need to check applicable statutes to see if your State is one of those.

Yes, typically members have a right to a copy of any signed contract. Check your governing documents and applicable laws (don't forget corporate law if the Association is incorporated) to be sure.

As for banning members from the Board meetings, you will need to check your governing documents and applicable laws.

Based on your posting the likely applicable statutes would be:
Ohio Revised Code, Title 53, Chapter 5311 Condominium Property
Ohio Revised Code, Title 17, Chapter 1702 Nonprofit Corporation Law (but check to be sure your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit - most are).

Ohio Statutes can be accessed here: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/
MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thank you, Tim
Orc 5311 says meetings are open. I would think that would apply to BOD meetings as it would not make sense to apply to meetings of members.

Again thanks! Much learning being done reading these blogs.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mark,

Looking at the statute you specified, I found:

5311.08 Unit owners association.
(3) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or the bylaws, all meetings of the unit owners association are open to the unit owners, and those present in person or by proxy when action is taken during a meeting of the unit owners association constitute a sufficient quorum.

5311.01 Condominium property definitions [emphasis added].
(DD) "Unit owners association" means the organization that administers the condominium property and that consists of all the owners of units in a condominium property.

In my opinion, this section only applies to general membership meetings and not Board meetings.
Please note that the statute also defers control (what must be complied with) to the CC&Rs or Bylaws.

I also base this on the fact that 5311.08 4(a) says:
A meeting of the board of directors may be held by any method of communication, including electronic or telephonic communication provided that each member of the board can hear, participate, and respond to every other member of the board. Hence, the Board could all meet by skype or through a conference call if desired (vs. meeting in person).

MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Tim

You explained that well. Nothing is in our Bylaws saying BOD meetings are open. It amazes me how things I read do not mean what I think I read!
Guess this is why lawyers have jobs.
Will keep trying to make them understand how not being transparent is a bad look.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
This may help.

http://communityassociations.net/required-organizational-documents/
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkB20 on 01/30/2017 3:54 PM
Tim

You explained that well. Nothing is in our Bylaws saying BOD meetings are open. It amazes me how things I read do not mean what I think I read!
Guess this is why lawyers have jobs.
Will keep trying to make them understand how not being transparent is a bad look.

When you are reading Statutes if not sure regarding some terms look at that particular statutes "Definitions".

In my state some reading the HOA statutes and coming across a term such as "Phased Community" would just think about what phased might mean (i.e. gradual stages) when in actuality for CCIOA it is a community still under development. The definitions will help gain better understanding as you read.
MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thank you all so much! Will check these ideas out.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Mark, it looks like some of our good posters pulled through. what fine advice!!
MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Yes it does! I am so glad I joined HOA Talk. So many ideas and different angles to approach problems that we all face or may in the future. Or have in the past.
While I was searching with questions, I ran across this: www.ottesq.com/article/our-clients-ask-us-open-board-meetings
Summing up on board meetings , if not in your docs, condos assns. are OPEN, planned communities are not. It does not give the argument but it is from a Real estate lawyer in Cleveland.
Thanks to all. I love this site!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkB20 on 02/01/2017 1:53 PM

I ran across this: www.ottesq.com/article/our-clients-ask-us-open-board-meetings

Bad link.

Here is the correct one: http://www.ww3.ottesq.com/articles/our-clients-ask-us-open-board-meetings

I do wish that they actually provided the basis for their opinions.
Additionally, the article isn't dated, hence we don't know if the laws changed that may make that opinion mute.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mark,

I also came across the following:

Open Board Meetings are not required by Ohio Law, but may be required under the Organizational Documents
Dec. 26, 2016 article from ohiocondolaw.com

Governance Questions and Answers - Ohio from CAI (community association institute) which specifies that there is no open meeting requirement for board meetings.

I suspect that the law changed between the article you referenced and those I posted above. This is why it's best to always provide the basis for an opinion so others can check over the same info and see if they draw the same conclusion.

It's also possible that it's simply a case of two attorneys interpreting the statutes differently and until someone takes the issue to court for a ruling, or the statute is amended to provide a clearer meaning, that you will always have differing opinions from attorneys on the issue.

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
One more, which I believe better supports my opinion:

Proposed Changes to Ohio Condo Law May 2016 article from a legal firm.

From that article:

House Bill 534 has been proposed in the Ohio legislature which could result in significant changes in condominium operations in Ohio. . . . The [proposed] law requires that board meetings be open to all unit owners and a portion of each meeting be allocated for comments by unit owners.

If the law required board meetings to be open, a bill to amend the law wouldn't include that board meetings be open.

Here is info on the bill:

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-HB-534

If you serve on the Board, it's always good to keep an eye on proposed and adopted changes to the applicable laws from your State.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Found this 2010 Ohio Supreme Court case: JEFFREY B. GALL V. MARIEMONT WINDSOR SQUARE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION,

Which states (page 24 of the pdf document):

The Court finds that the Board of Trustees is not required to open its meetings to
the unit ovrners. However, if the Board chooses to do so, nothing in the By-Laws or
statutes prohibits it.
MarkB20 (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Holy crap Tim
You have got to be professional advisor on here! And I do appreciate your responses.
I did view HB754 and agree with your logic. Can never have to much knowledge as I plan to view it all.

Thank you!

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