πŸ’¬ Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account β†’

⚑ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TinoS (California)
Posts: 85
Posted:
I live in California. I am the president on a three person board of an 18 unit complex. My wife and I are near retirement and have a net worth that should fund us to live into our nineties and still leave a little to our heirs according to our financial planner. Our condo is paid off. The other two board members are younger in their thirties and probably don't have anywhere near the net worth - although they are probably higher earners.

We on the board have D&O insurance of $3M. I don't really understand how this works. Let's say that there is a lawsuit or multiple lawsuits against the board..... I want to say that we are all honest and of good will and feel we are doing the best we can. None of us are doing anything illegal or unethical .... Is a $3M policy enough to cover all three of us if the total net value of our assets is over $3M?

Our property manager says that someone suing the HOA's board for not maintaining something that could cause an injury or property loss, or whatever, could not successfully sue the individual parties personally. <-- If I understand her correctly.

I've talked to my personal insurance agent about this and he says that my personal umbrella policy does not cover a suit against me as a board member. <-- If I understand him correctly.

Here is an example of one of my worries. Our CC&Rs state that dues must cover earthquake insurance. We have earthquake insurance. It is expensive and probably covers enough to rebuild half the 18 units. But it's probably not enough if the whole 18 units fell to the ground. If that happens and owners come after the board because there was not enough earthquake coverage, the losses would be more than $3M. Would I be personally liable for other owner’s losses if they exceed the D&Os $3M policy?

BTW, the board has decided to get the membership more informed of the coverage we currently have to poll the membership to get input about the level of earthquake insurance they want to have. So that might be the solution to any liability in that case.

But the question still stands: Are members of the board at risk of losing a lawsuit and losing their savings when they serve on an HOA board and how can that be dealt with?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Typically board members can get sued but it's tossed out of court or insurance covers. As long as the board member is not making grossly off the wall decisions, they are protected by acting as a group. It's the group that is basically protected.

I would talk to your HOA's insurance carrier for more details. A 1 million dollar policy doesn't mean it pays out 1 million dollars in a suit. It's usually along the lines of $80K. It caps off at a certain point due to legal cost the insurance company incurs. It's a bit complicated to explain but don't focus on 3 million being the actual payout.

My advice is to keep this mantra... Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... Does NOT mean there are not good reasons to sue your HOA. It's just a consequence of doing so. A statement to keep in mind before jumping to the lawyer with fears of lawsuits possibilities.

The truth is your HOA or a board member is going to get sued. So what? Find out what your worse case scenario is if that is to happen. That will help reduce the need to pay out extra legal expenses in all these "Protections". Sometimes your really not protecting yourself or HOA if the worst case scenario is not something that is not liveable with.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Tino,

I'm going to defer to Richard on this one, as he has most likely has more training on that issue.

However, it is very typical that applicable statutes and the governing documents specify that the Directors are indemnified by the Association. This is the main reason for D&O insurance. If the insurance isn't enough to cover any award/settlement, then the Association should be picking up the tab directly.

Any legal action against an individual Director would first need to pierce the corporate shield. This is difficult to do and is (I believe) what Melissa was thinking when she said it's typical for courts to remove the individual directors from the legal action.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Thanks Tim... I did mean the corporate shield... Working thirds messes with my mind/words...

Here is what I did a few years ago... I decided to go with the worst case scenario situation. What if we got sued? What is the worst that could happen? That is when I found out about the 80K payout max amount by our insurance. We have a 1 Million dollar policy. It meant that if someone ever did bring a million dollar lawsuit then the insurance would pay out 80K.

What does that mean then if the person won but sued more than the 1 Million? That 80K may not cut it depending on the court award. Which then would put the HOA members on the hook to pay out the difference. That may require a special assessment. Now that could be avoided a bit by increasing your insurance coverage above the minimum requirement. The more coverage the less out of pocket damage payments your HOA may face. Depending on the health of your HOA a large hit like this may or may not be a catastrophe.

Once you determine "Hey now been sued and they won" scenario, then your reaction to being sued will ultimately change. I found much less fear and less concentration on "Oh my better go run to a lawyer now to PREVENT a lawsuit etc..." Which can cost more than paying out the actual damages if they were to win.

You need to weigh the end damages versus preventing having those end damages. You may find incurring legal expense after legal expense in practice of preventing lawsuit ends up being way more damaging...

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The quake insurance question is best asked of your HOA attorney, Tino. What level of coverage is acceptable or "reasonable" given our CC&Rs? would be the question, I think. I suspect that if all your buildings were totally destroyed, you all would have far bigger things to worry about.

Our property mgr. polled about 25 high rise condos in our urban area and only one had quake insurance as required by their CC&Rs too. One had plate glass insurance.

See your governing documents about indemnification--might be in your bylaws.

There is a CA Corporations Code that's similar all over the country that states directors on boards are protected so long as they practice "due diligence," is carefully examining the topic before they make their decision. This is their "duty of care." That would include consulting with experts. Another aspect is that directors should "act in good faith" and do what they think is best for their corporation (HOA). This is their "duty of loyalty."

Check out davis-stirling.com's Main Index for the above. Tim'd approach is useful too.

So we might make mistakes, but if we practice both aspects of the Business Judgement Rule (or BJR), we should not be in danger of losing any suit.If we directors purposely act against our governing documents or CA's many statutes about HOAs, we sure could be liable.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Tino

Let me try and answer your questions based on my experience.

1. D&O insurance is there to protect volunteers of the association who may have a lawsuit filed against them by others, whether it is a member or a vendor. The amount of coverage is generally listed in your CCRs listed under the Article named Insurance. There are two standards of coverage, $500K for under 100 units and $1M for over. I feel that is sufficient in almost all circumstances. Some associations per their CCRs are required to have umbrella coverage, generally at about $5M.

Bottomline,, as long as the Board is transparent and above board, your insurance carrier will take care of you. In 8 years, I have never had a member or vendor sue an association or their directors and this covered over 100 complexes. Count my blessings.

2. Earthquake insurance is very tricky. Your association can have that insurance in place and be SOL when the big one does. The 1994 Northridge quake was a prime example. First, insurers threw upo their hands and ran out of the state, not covering anyone. Those that did stay were slow in coverage. Many homeowners couldn't handle the high deductibles.

Let's say the big one hits. Your building are insured for $5M with a 25% deductible, and they are a total loss. The association will have to come up with $1.25M in deductibles to re-build the complex. Let's say you have 50 homeowners, each will have to come up with $25,000 to cover THEIR share of the deductible. The California Earthquake Authority has a policy, but how does the association mandate that each owner have a policy in place.

In your scenario, you said that you have maybe have to cover the 18 units. It is either all or nothing. I actually don't know of an insurer only writing a policy to cover half. They may be on the hook in that event.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TinoS on 01/28/2017 8:14 AM
. . . Are members of the board at risk of losing a lawsuit and losing their savings when they serve on an HOA board . . . and how can that be dealt with ?

TinoS CAL As others put it above so well, a Corporation's directors are typically not personally, directly liable for civil awards against the Corporation they serve if they fully & lawfully & timely discharge their Directoral duties.

This usually at least means Three Stooges honesty at the very base. Not pursuing an identifiable divurgence in personal interest at odds with / to the detriment of, what the jurisdiction creates in favour of the general owners/shareholders/ of the general law.

However if the jurisdiction or governance documents add a higher standard of performance again eg competence and/or acting according to qualified professional advice, then meeting such is a defence for personal liability. Sharing in depressed property values along with ever other shakeholders or getting turfed electorally may be the only punishment if the standard is met.

My own jurisdiction is starting to see rogue condo Board members PERSONALLY hit for pursuing divurgent private interests eg contempt of court orders, bizarre misuse of grand-fathering to effectively shield their Declaration defying shenanigans. One was a $27 K per Director punishment ordered NOT paid by general members nor corporate insurers ( for daring to get caught in disregard of a civil judge who knows when & why to pull the trigger ).
TinoS (California)
Posts: 85
Posted:
Quote:


In your scenario, you said that you have maybe have to cover the 18 units. It is either all or nothing. I actually don't know of an insurer only writing a policy to cover half. They may be on the hook in that event.

I meant to convey that we have coverage for approximately half the cost to rebuild all the units - with the big caveat that we are using are current or maybe not way too out of date square foot building cost estimates for our area. But those estimates are for costs in the best of times. In a major wide spread earthquake the costs would go sky high with the rules of supply and demand and the total amount of insurance might not be able to cover close to the half the costs.

Having read what everyone has written here so far I am thinking that we should pole our HOA membership in some way, with something clearly and carefully written, to find out how much insurance a majority of owners want and simply use that as the criteria for how much to buy. As mentioned our CC&R mentions that we must buy earthquake insurance, along with other types, but it doesn't say how much.

I will compose a followup response later to try to make sense of the other comments here in the thread. I still don't get any warm and fuzzy feelings that I am not putting my personal wealth on the line when serving on an HOA board.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Tino, please read the replies again and also read there references provided to you.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TinoS on 01/29/2017 10:03 AM

I still don't get any warm and fuzzy feelings that I am not putting my personal wealth on the line when serving on an HOA board.


Hi Tino:

Let me see if I can explain in layman terms to help you feel more warm and fuzzy. Your HOA should be registered most likely as a Non-Profit Corporation. It would be this fact that mostly protects BOD members from personal liability attaching to them personally. That is why most people who start businesses have them as a Corporation to protect their personal finances and keep them separate.

Essentially the only way you could be held "personally" liable and be sued is for flagrant disregard for the HOA Documents and your State Laws where you could be sued for violation of Fiduciary Duty. The BOD needs to treat and represent everyone else's property as well or better than they would treat their own personal property ... which would be your Fiduciary Duty. As long as you are honest and looking out for the best interest of you and your neighbors there should be no issues.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TinoS on 01/29/2017 10:03 AM
<

I meant to convey that we have coverage for approximately half the cost to rebuild all the units - with the big caveat that we are using are current or maybe not way too out of date square foot building cost estimates for our area. But those estimates are for costs in the best of times. In a major wide spread earthquake the costs would go sky high with the rules of supply and demand and the total amount of insurance might not be able to cover close to the half the costs.


Well just using the earthquake insurance as an example, one way to lessen your (in my opinion already low) liability is to get several prices for various levels of insurance and put the choice up for vote by the general body.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Tino, besides having adequate D&O insurance and adequate Liability insurance you need to know two other things before serving on your Board:

1. The Association is incorporated in the state and has carefully worded Articles of Incorporation which provide an adequate "Corporate Shield".

2. Never knowingly commit fraud or wrongdoing.

In addtition, all homeowners ought to make sure their association has sufficient Liability insurance and Fidelity insurance.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • βœ“ Ask follow-up questions
  • βœ“ Share your experience
  • βœ“ Get expert advice
  • βœ“ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account β†’

⚑ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here