💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
In our HOA, at the present time, I believe the word quorum is not being used correctly. But I may be wrong.

Can someone explain how the quorum works as it pertains to the different votes; votes by Board of Directors, votes including all of the residents, etc.

To change the CC&R's it requires 2/3 of the lots voting in agreement. That is written in the declarations. Does that mean the quorum requirement is 2/3 of the lots for all votes? What about for elections?

I was told when I became the president the biggest problem was getting people to show up and vote. It was said that if the people don't show up and vote, nothing can be done. Is this true? Or can we elect officers and/or appoint board members from/with those who participate?

We have a big expense on the horizon (well repair) and I want a vote on how to proceed rather than me simply making the decision and taking care of it (which seems to please everyone at this point). Can the Officers take a vote, document the results and move forward from that point?
NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/27/2017 9:02 AM
In our HOA, at the present time, I believe the word quorum is not being used correctly. But I may be wrong.

Can someone explain how the quorum works as it pertains to the different votes; votes by Board of Directors, votes including all of the residents, etc.

To change the CC&R's it requires 2/3 of the lots voting in agreement. That is written in the declarations. Does that mean the quorum requirement is 2/3 of the lots for all votes? What about for elections?

I was told when I became the president the biggest problem was getting people to show up and vote. It was said that if the people don't show up and vote, nothing can be done. Is this true? Or can we elect officers and/or appoint board members from/with those who participate?

We have a big expense on the horizon (well repair) and I want a vote on how to proceed rather than me simply making the decision and taking care of it (which seems to please everyone at this point). Can the Officers take a vote, document the results and move forward from that point?

You really need to look at the CC&R's as Quorum requirements may be different for different things.

To change our CC&R's we need to have 3/5ths (140) of the eligible voters (1 vote per property) agree to change them.

To change our ByLaws we need a majority of a quorum which is described as 1/10th of the eligible votes (or 23).

To elect a Director we need a Quorum (1/10th of eligible voters)

A quorum for our BOD is 2 - as we only have 3 Directors
NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posted:
I hit submit before answering the entire post.

The elected Directors are the ones who decide on how to spend the money, if you have a big project coming up, it is only wise that expenditures be made based on a majority vote of the Directors. Generally speaking the membership of the Association has no say in how the money is spent - the ceded that authority to the BOD when they elected them
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I don't believe in Quorum when it comes to member meetings as the documents should have protective requirements in order to amend or change them. For instance, generally it requires 67% to change the CCRs, 51% to change the Bylaws, 51% to recall a Directors, and so on. Why make it difficult.

For example, my old CCRs said you needed quorum of a majority of the Voting Power to call a meeting to order to change the CCRs BUT the affirmative vote of 66 2/3% to change.

Board meetings, different animal. There needs to be a majority of the Directors that were elected present to call a Board meeting to order. If you are supposed to have 5 directors, and 5 were elected, but two resigned and not replaced, three is still required to have three to achieve quorum.

As far as money spent, the membership may require a vote depending on the amount, what it is used and more importantly, what the governing documents say.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Nigel's second post regarding spending is generally correct, unless your governing documents explicitly say otherwise. The membership elects the board to run the association, including spending money on maintenance. Some governing docs might place limits on large increases in annual dues or on special assessments that could affect this.

How many members on the board? For a board meeting, a quorum is generally 50%. To pass a motion, 50% of the board members in attendance need to vote in favor. For example, in 5 member board, a meeting with 3 members is a quorum. Two of those directors would make a majority at that particular meeting and could pass motions. My experience is that proxies are not typically allowed for board meetings, but that would depend on your governing docs and any applicable law.

Board members should be elected by the membership at the annual meeting, but if there are vacancies otherwise, the remaining board can fill them via a majority vote at a board meeting with a quorum.

Quorums generally refer to meetings, since CCR changes generally don't require a meeting the concept of quorum doesn't apply. In your case 2/3 of all lots must assent to any CCR change.

Election requirements are most often in the bylaws, not the CCRs. Typical would be that a quorum for the members meeting would be from 1/3 to 1/2 of all members, but that varies quite a bit. Once a quorum is met, to elect directors the candidates getting the most votes win. There is no specific percentage of votes they need. If other business is conducted at the annual meeting, a majority of those in attendance is typically all that's needed to pass a motion. Bylaw changes might require a different amount, such as 2/3. Proxies can often be used to meet the quorum, and possibly to vote. Some docs allow reconvening a meeting with a smaller quorum requirement if the quorum is not met on the first attempt.

Read and understand your bylaws, CCRs, and state law regarding HOAs and non-profit corporations (assuming your's is). Also make sure that all meetings are properly noticed if required by your docs and state laws.

Note too that in some cases docs refer to "those eligible to vote", which might exclude members not in good standing, this could lower your quorum requirements.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
This not correct.

How many members on the board? For a board meeting, a quorum is generally 50%. To pass a motion, 50% of the board members in attendance need to vote in favor.

A quorum for a Board meeting is a majority, not 50%. To vote a motion is not 50% but a majority.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Typically the Bylaws will dictate what % of owners is a Quorum. Ours is 20% but it used to be 50% until we changed it. In our case we cannot conduct business (hold elections, etc.) unless we meet Quorum

Typically it takes a majority of all owners to change Covenants and/or Bylaws. The most common majority is 51% of 2/3rds. In some cases it can be as high as 100%. This is of all owners not just % of a Quorum.

Let us say 100 homes and 20% to meet a Quorum. The % of all owners needed to make changes (as above) still stands. Let us say it is 51% to make a Bylaw change. We still need 51 of the 100 to agree to the change regardless of how many were there to make Quorum. Even if 50 showed (in person or via proxy), Quorum (20) was met but you would still need 51% of all owners approving a change and as you do not have 51% there, you cannot vote on anything requiring 51% or more of all owners.

Do not confuse a Quorum amount with number of owners needed to approve something.

Typically a BOD has to have a majority to establish a Quorum in order to conduct BOD business. To simplify:

1 of 3 is not a majority.
2 of 3 is a majority.
1 or 2 of 4 is not a majority.
3 of 4 is a majority.
2 of 5 is not a majority.
3 or more of 5 is a majority.
1 or 2 or 3 of 7 is not a majority.
4 or more of 7 is a majority.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
CORRECTION

The most common majority is 51% or 2/3rds. In some cases it can be as high as 100%.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 01/27/2017 11:26 AM
This not correct.

How many members on the board? For a board meeting, a quorum is generally 50%. To pass a motion, 50% of the board members in attendance need to vote in favor.

A quorum for a Board meeting is a majority, not 50%. To vote a motion is not 50% but a majority.

Sorry for being unclear, I guess I was assuming a at least 50% of an odd number of directors. If the number is even, then you are right that 50% doesn't cut it.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/27/2017 1:41 PM
Typically the Bylaws will dictate what % of owners is a Quorum. Ours is 20% but it used to be 50% until we changed it. In our case we cannot conduct business (hold elections, etc.) unless we meet Quorum

Typically it takes a majority of all owners to change Covenants and/or Bylaws. The most common majority is 51% of 2/3rds. In some cases it can be as high as 100%. This is of all owners not just % of a Quorum.

Let us say 100 homes and 20% to meet a Quorum. The % of all owners needed to make changes (as above) still stands. Let us say it is 51% to make a Bylaw change. We still need 51 of the 100 to agree to the change regardless of how many were there to make Quorum. Even if 50 showed (in person or via proxy), Quorum (20) was met but you would still need 51% of all owners approving a change and as you do not have 51% there, you cannot vote on anything requiring 51% or more of all owners.

Do not confuse a Quorum amount with number of owners needed to approve something.[\b]

Typically a BOD has to have a majority to establish a Quorum in order to conduct BOD business. To simplify:

1 of 3 is not a majority.
2 of 3 is a majority.
1 or 2 of 4 is not a majority.
3 of 4 is a majority.
2 of 5 is not a majority.
3 or more of 5 is a majority.
1 or 2 or 3 of 7 is not a majority.
4 or more of 7 is a majority.


in bold is exactly what I think has been happening in this association for years. It'll be tough to explain it to them.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
oops. I didn't do the bold [] thing right.

Still learning...
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Doug

50% of an odd number will be fractional (50% of 7 is 3.5) so it gets bumped up to 4. As 3 of 7 is 43% which is still below 50% or a majority.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/27/2017 9:02 AM
In our HOA, at the present time, I believe the word quorum is not being used correctly. But I may be wrong.

Can someone explain how the quorum works as it pertains to the different votes; votes by Board of Directors, votes including all of the residents, etc.
You potentially need to look in your By-Laws or CCR's for this number for the Annual HOA Meeting. It generally will be a percentage of the total number of units in your HOA for the Annual Membership Meeting. Generally for the BOD it will be a majority and as most BOD's are an odd number it will be more than 50% (i.e., if you have 5 BOD members the quorum generally will be 3).

To change the CC&R's it requires 2/3 of the lots voting in agreement. That is written in the declarations. Does that mean the quorum requirement is 2/3 of the lots for all votes? What about for elections? No ... the quorum most likely will be less such as 20% of owners to hold an Annual Meeting (most likely found in your By-Laws). The 2/3 stated to change the CCR's will include Proxy Votes or Absentee Votes along with others who physically attend the Annual Meeting.

I was told when I became the president the biggest problem was getting people to show up and vote. It was said that if the people don't show up and vote, nothing can be done. Is this true? Potentially can be the case if you do not meet the quorum required to hold that particular meeting. Or can we elect officers and/or appoint board members from/with those who participate? Not unless you meet requirements in your governing documents and State Laws. You need to meet both quorum and voting requirements.

We have a big expense on the horizon (well repair) and I want a vote on how to proceed rather than me simply making the decision and taking care of it (which seems to please everyone at this point). Can the Officers take a vote, document the results and move forward from that point? The BOD is responsible for managing the HOA following your documents and laws. One question I would have is when you state "big expense" will a possible Special Assessment be required or do you have Reserve Funds to cover the expense?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Sorry ... had and HTML code wrong for bold text and hopefully this will fix.

Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 01/27/2017 10:21 PM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/27/2017 9:02 AM
In our HOA, at the present time, I believe the word quorum is not being used correctly. But I may be wrong.

Can someone explain how the quorum works as it pertains to the different votes; votes by Board of Directors, votes including all of the residents, etc.
You potentially need to look in your By-Laws or CCR's for this number for the Annual HOA Meeting. It generally will be a percentage of the total number of units in your HOA for the Annual Membership Meeting. Generally for the BOD it will be a majority and as most BOD's are an odd number it will be more than 50% (i.e., if you have 5 BOD members the quorum generally will be 3).

To change the CC&R's it requires 2/3 of the lots voting in agreement. That is written in the declarations. Does that mean the quorum requirement is 2/3 of the lots for all votes? What about for elections? No ... the quorum most likely will be less such as 20% of owners to hold an Annual Meeting (most likely found in your By-Laws). The 2/3 stated to change the CCR's will include Proxy Votes or Absentee Votes along with others who physically attend the Annual Meeting.

I was told when I became the president the biggest problem was getting people to show up and vote. It was said that if the people don't show up and vote, nothing can be done. Is this true? Potentially can be the case if you do not meet the quorum required to hold that particular meeting. Or can we elect officers and/or appoint board members from/with those who participate? Not unless you meet requirements in your governing documents and State Laws. You need to meet both quorum and voting requirements.

We have a big expense on the horizon (well repair) and I want a vote on how to proceed rather than me simply making the decision and taking care of it (which seems to please everyone at this point). Can the Officers take a vote, document the results and move forward from that point? The BOD is responsible for managing the HOA following your documents and laws. One question I would have is when you state "big expense" will a possible Special Assessment be required or do you have Reserve Funds to cover the expense?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Douglas

On the big expense. If this outlay will not require a Special Assessment meaning it has been planned on and can be budgeted for, then inviting all owners to vote on it is unnecessary and possibly a mistake. A mistake in though not needed, they will expect you to heed the vote and if you do not that will upset people. The BOD controls the association, not the owners. Buck up and do the job.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Thank you all for the answers.

I'm so glad I found this site.

I'm in the process of reading the governing documents right now. I'm sure I'll have other questions soon!

Thanks again, everyone!
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/28/2017 7:15 AM
Douglas

On the big expense. If this outlay will not require a Special Assessment meaning it has been planned on and can be budgeted for, then inviting all owners to vote on it is unnecessary and possibly a mistake. A mistake in though not needed, they will expect you to heed the vote and if you do not that will upset people. The BOD controls the association, not the owners. Buck up and do the job.

It will not require a special assessment, although some members are asking we do one. We have the funds, but it will take us right back down to busted again!

Thanks for the advice- I'm going to Buck up and take care of it. I just hope I don't buck up too badly!

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/30/2017 4:33 PM

It will not require a special assessment, although some members are asking we do one. We have the funds, but it will take us right back down to busted again!

Thanks for the advice- I'm going to Buck up and take care of it. I just hope I don't buck up too badly!


Rather than be busted an alternative if members are asking for a special assessment is to assess for part of the needed work ... not exactly sure what you mean by "busted" but it is definately not what I would recommend. You need to make sure you have plenty of money to pay proper insurances, monthly maintenance items, etc. for the year ... along with a little for potential emergency. Multiple special assessments do not go over as well as one larger needed and which appears your members are aware of the need.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/30/2017 4:33 PM

It will not require a special assessment, although some members are asking we do one. We have the funds, but it will take us right back down to busted again!

Thanks for the advice- I'm going to Buck up and take care of it. I just hope I don't buck up too badly!


Rather than be busted an alternative if members are asking for a special assessment is to assess for part of the needed work ... not exactly sure what you mean by "busted" but it is definately not what I would recommend. You need to make sure you have plenty of money to pay proper insurances, monthly maintenance items, etc. for the year ... along with a little for potential emergency. Multiple special assessments do not go over as well as one larger needed and which appears your members are aware of the need.
JennyG1 (Indiana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
our by-laws say that if majority of board members are in attendance at a meeting it constitutes a quorum at all meetings, nothing about community members: is this legal
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Better to start a new thread, Jenny; welcome to the Forum.

Quick answer.: When reading your Bylaws, make sure you understand the differences between meetings of the members (homeowners), and meetings of the board.

Meeting of the board require a quorum (usually a majority) of the board to be present to vote and make decisions.

Meetings of the members generally are only to vote on a few things like electing directors to be on the board. Your Bylaws or perhaps some other document will say how many homeowners need to vote for there to be a quorum. In my HOA, for instance, 25% of members (Owners) is the quorum needed to elect directors to the board.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NigelB on 01/27/2017 9:16 AM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/27/2017 9:02 AM
In our HOA, at the present time, I believe the word quorum is not being used correctly. But I may be wrong.

Can someone explain how the quorum works as it pertains to the different votes; votes by Board of Directors, votes including all of the residents, etc.

To change the CC&R's it requires 2/3 of the lots voting in agreement. That is written in the declarations. Does that mean the quorum requirement is 2/3 of the lots for all votes? What about for elections?

I was told when I became the president the biggest problem was getting people to show up and vote. It was said that if the people don't show up and vote, nothing can be done. Is this true? Or can we elect officers and/or appoint board members from/with those who participate?

We have a big expense on the horizon (well repair) and I want a vote on how to proceed rather than me simply making the decision and taking care of it (which seems to please everyone at this point). Can the Officers take a vote, document the results and move forward from that point?


You really need to look at the CC&R's as Quorum requirements may be different for different things.

To change our CC&R's we need to have 3/5ths (140) of the eligible voters (1 vote per property) agree to change them.

To change our ByLaws we need a majority of a quorum which is described as 1/10th of the eligible votes (or 23).

To elect a Director we need a Quorum (1/10th of eligible voters)

A quorum for our BOD is 2 - as we only have 3 Directors

Do you have anything like this in your Bylaws?

"A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board. "

And:

"Action Without A Meeting. Any action by the Board of Directors or by any committee appointed by the Board of Directors required or permitted to be taken at any meeting may be taken without a meeting if, prior to such action, one or more written consents describing the action taken are signed by no less than a majority of the members of the Board of Directors or of such committee, as the case may be."

So, the president really shouldn't just call around make things happen. All actions should reflected in your minutes.

Also, our Bylaws and much of the CC&Rs come directly from Georgia law.

https://www.hoa-usa.com/files/documents/GeorgiaPropertyOwnersAssociationAct_082410.pdf
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Our Bylaws state that the Board of Directors must consist of between 5 and 9 persons. We had a 5 person Board. James, one of the directors had brain cancer which he was keeping in remission; I don't know the details. I saw him with no hair on his head. I didn't think anything of it. Then he died very suddenly leaving only 4 board members.

My contention is that under the law, a four person Board can take no legal action at all. With only 4 members, it cannot 'Duly call" a meeting.

ARTICLE IV
Board of Directors

A. Composition and Selection.

Section I. Composition. The affairs of the Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors consist of not Less than five (5) and no more than nine (9) members."

Quorum. A quorum shall be deemed present throughout any meeting of the Board of Directors if a majority of the number of Directors is present at the beginning of such meeting. A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board. The President may vote. If any Board of Directors meeting cannot be held because of the absence of a quorum, a majority of the votes present and voting may adjourn the meeting to a later time. The necessary quorum shall be required at the adjourned session. At any such adjourned meeting, any business which might have been transacted at the meeting as originally called may be transacted without further
notice."

What the Board should have done was call a special meeting BEFORE the one board member passed, allowing the Association members to create a 6th member, as required in the Bylaws.

Again: With only 4 members, the Board can take no legal action at all. That is where we stand now.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quorum- A majority of the total number for for the time being of the Board of Directors, but in no case less than two shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business, but a lessor number may adjourn the meeting sine die or to a stated time and place, and a majority of the members present at any meetings at which a quorum is present shall decide any question brought before such meeting except as otherwise may be provided by law. .....

And I believe our Bylaws state the numbers of directors can be no less than 3 and no more than 20.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Walter wrote: "'Section I. Composition. The affairs of the Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors consist[ing?] of not Less than five (5) and no more than nine (9) members."

"Quorum. A quorum shall be deemed present throughout any meeting of the Board of Directors if a majority of the number of Directors is present at the beginning of such meeting. A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board."

That's the gist, Walter: If a quorum of the board is present at a duly called meeting, the board may take action (vote). Even if you have two vacancies on your current board of 5, 3 directors may meet and take action.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/13/2017 12:41 PM
Walter wrote: "'Section I. Composition. The affairs of the Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors consist[ing?] of not Less than five (5) and no more than nine (9) members."

"Quorum. A quorum shall be deemed present throughout any meeting of the Board of Directors if a majority of the number of Directors is present at the beginning of such meeting. A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board."

That's the gist, Walter: If a quorum of the board is present at a duly called meeting, the board may take action (vote). Even if you have two vacancies on your current board of 5, 3 directors may meet and take action.

That's how I read it, too.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 02/13/2017 12:51 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/13/2017 12:41 PM
Walter wrote: "'Section I. Composition. The affairs of the Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors consist[ing?] of not Less than five (5) and no more than nine (9) members."

"Quorum. A quorum shall be deemed present throughout any meeting of the Board of Directors if a majority of the number of Directors is present at the beginning of such meeting. A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board."

That's the gist, Walter: If a quorum of the board is present at a duly called meeting, the board may take action (vote). Even if you have two vacancies on your current board of 5, 3 directors may meet and take action.


That's how I read it, too.

I don't see it that way. A Board cannot "duly" call a meeting unless there are five (or more) seated Board members. The Board was really confused about that too: "We have four members - we only need three to make a quorum right?"

I read it that they can't call -any- meeting, unless they have the number of Board members required by law, which is five or more.

O.C.G.A. 14-3-803 (2010) (Official Code of Georgia Annotated)
14-3-803. Number of directors

(a) A board of directors must consist of one or more natural persons, with the number specified in or fixed in accordance with the articles or bylaws."

Our Bylaws fix the number at -five-. At least 5. If you don't have 5 you cannot take any action. You can't convene a meeting; you can't call a quorum.

Now that is done, and our Board did it; the four of them picked a 5th member. But it was an action taken outside the law. It wouldn't stand a court challenge.

That is what I see.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Walter, you DO have a Board of 5. You have one vacancy on it. All that your Board needs to act (vote; make decisions) is a quorum of 3. You are mistaken, the board is not in jeopardy of losing in a legal action. That simply is not True.

If your interpretation were correct it'd mean that every time a director is absent from your board of 5, no decisions can be made??

You seem to find some hidden meaning in the word, "duly," why do you emphasize it??

Let's use 5. In CA, statutes also say that if there is a quorum of directors at the beginning of a meeting, i.e., 3, and one director leaves, the Board may still continue the meeting, vote, etc., so long as the votes are unanimous.

This happened recently: We had an emergency meeting of the board and only a quorum (4 here of 7) could attend. I was very ill, but dragged myself to the meeting to be counted as present so there'd be a quorum. Then I excused myself and went home. Those three voted unanimously on the one urgent matter. (later, I realized I could have phoned in to be counted towards quorum.)
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/13/2017 1:18 PM
Walter, you DO have a Board of 5. You have one vacancy on it. All that your Board needs to act (vote; make decisions) is a quorum of 3. You are mistaken, the board is not in jeopardy of losing in a legal action. That simply is not True.

If your interpretation were correct it'd mean that every time a director is absent from your board of 5, no decisions can be made??

You seem to find some hidden meaning in the word, "duly," why do you emphasize it??

Let's use 5. In CA, statutes also say that if there is a quorum of directors at the beginning of a meeting, i.e., 3, and one director leaves, the Board may still continue the meeting, vote, etc., so long as the votes are unanimous.

This happened recently: We had an emergency meeting of the board and only a quorum (4 here of 7) could attend. I was very ill, but dragged myself to the meeting to be counted as present so there'd be a quorum. Then I excused myself and went home. Those three voted unanimously on the one urgent matter. (later, I realized I could have phoned in to be counted towards quorum.)

We had a board of five; One of them died. Then we had a board of four. A four member board can take no action under the law.

Are we talking past each other? If you have five living people, two of them can be absent, can be out of the country. The other three can act and call a quorum with three members. That arrangement can continue indefinitely.

I guess what I am saying is that if you are dead, you can no longer qualify as a Board member.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I guess what I am saying is that if you are dead, you can no longer qualify as a Board member.

If you are dead, I believe there are a number of things you don't qualify for, you think.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Walter

Let's if one member either dies of resigns and NO ONE else wants to be appointed until the next election, the association is at a standstill until then, I don't think so.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:31 PM
Walter

Let's if one member either dies of resigns and NO ONE else wants to be appointed until the next election, the association is at a standstill until then, I don't think so.

The affairs of the Association continue. Ours continued. It is a little tiny nonprofit corporation. But the law says that the Board will consist of the number of directors as stated in the Bylaws. In our case, you have to have 5-9 living people. If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge.

That is what I see.

And as I noted earlier even after James passed away, the Board didn't even know it was out of compliance with the law until it was pointed out to them.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterM3 on 02/13/2017 1:39 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:31 PM
Walter

Let's if one member either dies of resigns and NO ONE else wants to be appointed until the next election, the association is at a standstill until then, I don't think so.


The affairs of the Association continue. Ours continued. It is a little tiny nonprofit corporation. But the law says that the Board will consist of the number of directors as stated in the Bylaws. In our case, you have to have 5-9 living people. If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge.

That is what I see.

And as I noted earlier even after James passed away, the Board didn't even know it was out of compliance with the law until it was pointed out to them.


So, you are not complying with the law, as you described?
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:43 PM
Posted By WalterM3 on 02/13/2017 1:39 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:31 PM
Walter

Let's if one member either dies of resigns and NO ONE else wants to be appointed until the next election, the association is at a standstill until then, I don't think so.


The affairs of the Association continue. Ours continued. It is a little tiny nonprofit corporation. But the law says that the Board will consist of the number of directors as stated in the Bylaws. In our case, you have to have 5-9 living people. If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge.

That is what I see.

And as I noted earlier even after James passed away, the Board didn't even know it was out of compliance with the law until it was pointed out to them.



So, you are not complying with the law, as you described?

In our case, as I said, James had cancer. It suddenly took him. That left 4 living members. Assume just for argument that I am correct. A 4 person board doesn't comply with the requirements of the law: At least 5 members. It cannot call any meetings at all. It can't call a quorum because it doesn't meet the statutory requirements.

It is a big mess.

Best case. No one makes a legal challenge.

Worst case, the corporation is emasculated, can take no actions at all and may have dissolved itself through negligence. The boarc cannot authorize payments of the Association's bills, it can't certify a budget.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Walter

I think you need to get a better understand of how the law works in this area. You might want to consider speaking to a property management company or an attorney.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:43 PM
Posted By WalterM3 on 02/13/2017 1:39 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/13/2017 1:31 PM
Walter

Let's if one member either dies of resigns and NO ONE else wants to be appointed until the next election, the association is at a standstill until then, I don't think so.


The affairs of the Association continue. Ours continued. It is a little tiny nonprofit corporation. But the law says that the Board will consist of the number of directors as stated in the Bylaws. In our case, you have to have 5-9 living people. If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge.

That is what I see.

And as I noted earlier even after James passed away, the Board didn't even know it was out of compliance with the law until it was pointed out to them.



So, you are not complying with the law, as you described?

I don't think we comply with the law now. That is correct.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Walter

You wouldn't be the first, and certainly won't be the last!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Walter wrote:"If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge. "

Walter you DO have a Board of 5 even though there only are 4 directors + a vacant seat. The seat still exists. Neither your state law or bylaws says that a vacant seat means the SAME thing as a board of four. It STILL is a Board of 5. Your state law on non profits, like ours, say that when a QUORUM of the Board meets, it may act, i.e., make decisions. Your Bylaws might even say that.....don't they?

Look, in CA, HOA Boards must give 4 days notice to members for our open meetings. Selection of a new director occurs at open meetings. Say Ms. X resigns on 1/21. Even in the unlikely case that we have someone clamoring for the position, the board may NOT act (vote) to fill it for 4 days.

But we still would have a quorum and could do business during those 4 days if necessary. And then, a quorum of the board would vote to fill the vacancy. Notice, this would not be a full complement of directors who'd vote; it'd be 6 or fewer if absences. But the vote--the action-- to elect a new director would be completely legal.

Along these ones, Janet's comparison to city councils, etc., is right on target. If you don't believe her, me & Richard, do please get the advice of an attorney.

I truly think there most likely are FAR more important things to think about re: your HOA, btw.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/13/2017 3:49 PM
Walter wrote:"If you only have 4 members, and no one will agree to be on the Board then none of the actions taken by the Board while it does not comply with the laws can withstand a legal challenge. "

Walter you DO have a Board of 5 even though there only are 4 directors + a vacant seat. The seat still exists. Neither your state law or bylaws says that a vacant seat means the SAME thing as a board of four. It STILL is a Board of 5. Your state law on non profits, like ours, say that when a QUORUM of the Board meets, it may act, i.e., make decisions. Your Bylaws might even say that.....don't they?

Look, in CA, HOA Boards must give 4 days notice to members for our open meetings. Selection of a new director occurs at open meetings. Say Ms. X resigns on 1/21. Even in the unlikely case that we have someone clamoring for the position, the board may NOT act (vote) to fill it for 4 days.

But we still would have a quorum and could do business during those 4 days if necessary. And then, a quorum of the board would vote to fill the vacancy. Notice, this would not be a full complement of directors who'd vote; it'd be 6 or fewer if absences. But the vote--the action-- to elect a new director would be completely legal.

Along these ones, Janet's comparison to city councils, etc., is right on target. If you don't believe her, me & Richard, do please get the advice of an attorney.

I truly think there most likely are FAR more important things to think about re: your HOA, btw.


ARTICLE IV
Board of Directors

A. Composition and Selection.

Section I. Composition. The affairs of the Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors consist of not Less than five (5) and no more than nine (9) members."

Where do you see a vacant seat in there?

"I truly think there most likely are FAR more important things to think about re: your HOA, btw."

I am sure you think that. Worst case the HOA can take no legal actions, so I think that might be pretty important.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Walter

You need to understand how things works. Talk with someone levelheaded.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
This is why I started this thread. There is so much confusion and misunderstanding about what a quorum is, and what is required to do business.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I must apologize to you, Douglas, forgetting sidetracked by Walter. Do you think you have abetter understanding of quorum?

Walter, as suggested elsewhere, what do your state laws and bylaws say about filling vacancies?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Walter should start his own thread . Posting in other various threads gets items complicated, hard to follow, and is not fair to the individuals who started a thread by having theirs what we have termed in past as somewhat hijacked.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Walter started a thread for his question which can be viewed here:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/223937/view/topic/Default.aspx

DOUGLAS ... Was your question answered or do you have any other concerns? Everyone was a little sidetracked ... If you have more concerns, you can always start another thread with the question to obtain a clean slate regarding the question.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Yea, at this point I think I'm okay. Thanks everyone!

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here