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DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
We have a small community (20 lots) that does not allow detached garages or guest houses. If a resident decides to build anyway, what measures can the HOA take as punishment or to get the resident back in compliance?

I assume telling them to tear it down would be the first step, but let's assume that doesn't work.

Also, if a resident has too many pets, has piles of rubbage, etc.

I'm trying to learn what is customary.

Thank you in advance!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It really depends if your HOA can issue fines or not. Some can and some can't. If you can issue fines, then you have to have a "Fining schedule". Which basically breaks down violation/fine amount. Example: Garbage can left out on wrong day. That is $25 a day. Max fine $100 etc...

Now my HOA if you are in violation, we don't issue fines. Instead we issue a warning to fix the violation. If they do not fix it, then the HOA can fix/remove the violation. However, we charge the owner the amount we paid to do it. Now if they refuse to pay that bill, then we lien them for that amount.

Each enforcement has it's issue. Make sure to give an opportunity to defend if possible. Each situation is different. Also keep in mind the HOA can't fine a Renter. They can fine the owner for the renter's violations.

Former HOA President
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Thank you. I'll read through the CC&R's again to see if it specifies whether or not we can issues fines.

I hope it doesn't come to that.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM
We have a small community (20 lots) that does not allow detached garages or guest houses. If a resident decides to build anyway, what measures can the HOA take as punishment or to get the resident back in compliance?

I assume telling them to tear it down would be the first step, but let's assume that doesn't work.

Realistically, if the garage is already built and the Association did nothing during the build process, you are likely stuck with it.
However, if, during the build process, you issued a cease and desist order (citing the governing documents), you may have some leverage in court.

Typically, of the issues surrounding permanent out buildings that I've read about, this will be an issue the Association will need to take through the courts.

Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM

Also, if a resident has too many pets,

This is where monetary penalties may be helpful.

However, you may have to have such language authorizing monetary penalties within the CC&Rs to withstand legal challenges.

Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM

Also, if a resident ... has piles of rubbage, etc.

For this, I'd contact the health department and let them handle it.

Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM

I'm trying to learn what is customary.

The Association needs to develop a written enforcement policy.

A Typical policy is:

1) Informal warning (verbal or written)
2) Formal warning (written with x days to comply)
3) Hearing before the Board or enforcement committee
4) Monetary penalties start to occur (if authorized)
5) Legal action through the courts (and perhaps liens/foreclosure options for any nonpayment of fines - however laws vary from State to State and such action for fines may not be allowed).

Also, there are times, such as in the case of the Garage being built, that the Association may need to expedite the process and even bring legal action as a first step (injunction to stop all work) to protect it's options.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/24/2017 4:25 PM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM
We have a small community (20 lots) that does not allow detached garages or guest houses. If a resident decides to build anyway, what measures can the HOA take as punishment or to get the resident back in compliance?

I assume telling them to tear it down would be the first step, but let's assume that doesn't work.


Realistically, if the garage is already built and the Association did nothing during the build process, you are likely stuck with it.
However, if, during the build process, you issued a cease and desist order (citing the governing documents), you may have some leverage in court.

Typically, of the issues surrounding permanent out buildings that I've read about, this will be an issue the Association will need to take through the courts.


Based on a reading of Arizona appellate court opinions, if an owner is informed that his proposed construction is in violation of the CC&R's and he continues to build, "he proceeds at his own peril." The first step is always informing the offending owner as early as possible that he may be about to violate the covenants. It does not seem to matter who informs the offending party or whether he is informed orally or in writing, although a certified letter from the board would be better proof than testimony from another owner.

β€œAnother principle to be considered in the enforcement of restrictive covenants is that by virtue of appearing in the deed the defendant knew or should have known of the restrictive covenant, and under such circumstances the defendant acted at its own peril without first obtaining a resolution of the covenant.” Burke v. Voicestream Wireless, http://caselaw.findlaw.com/az-court-of-appeals/1047937.html

Unknown to me is how the courts would respond to an attempt to order removal of a completed structure that no one objected to before or during construction.

Keep in mind that seeking a court order to demolish a structure will be a costly matter. Even the simplest of cases start at about $20,000 with no upper limit. You could easily win the battle but put yourselves into bankruptcy. I think you have to evaluate the risks and rewards of waging war on your neighbors.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/24/2017 2:59 PM

We have a small community (20 lots) that does not allow detached garages or guest houses. If a resident decides to build anyway, what measures can the HOA take as punishment or to get the resident back in compliance?

I assume telling them to tear it down would be the first step, but let's assume that doesn't work.

Also, if a resident has too many pets, has piles of rubbage, etc.


Yes can ask them to tear down ... Question would be if was in my state when was the "detached garage or guest house" built? ... If it has been a year or more the HOA would be out of luck per our State Law if not already addressed.

Pets and rubble ... If your documents do not address, then these are items which also might fall under your local City or County ordinances. Most City or Counties limit the number of pets and the trash around is also addressed in ordinances.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Thank you for the replies. At this point nobody has built. But we have been trying to get the CC&R's changed to allow detached garages and I know one of the newer residents purchased with the intent of building one.

I'm going to use this thread for other questions I have, unless that's frowned upon, in which case I'll start a new one.

We currently have 4 board positions:

President
Vice President
Treasurer
Secretary

I had a brief meeting with an attorney and he suggested having 5. What would be a good fifth position to add? I was thinking "sergeant of arms". LOL. Just kidding of course.

I'm going to have many more questions as everyone on this board is new at this.

Thanks again!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Those are Board Officer positions. Which often can make up a board. However, in some HOA's a board consist of Officers and general board members. Kind of a "Member at large" kind of thing if you want that 5th position.

Generally your members elect the board. The board then elects amongst themselves the officer positions. Our HOA was so apathetic that you pretty much just told members what position you wanted and got it.

You don't necessarily need a lot of board members if your HOA is rather apathetic or small. I recommend 3 to 5 members as a minimum. Once you get to a larger number it becomes harder to fill consistently due to apathy or disinterest issues that tend to ebb and flow with any HOA. Matter of fact our HOA had 107 member. It required 7 board members. We barely got 7 people to show to a meeting! So we reduced that number in our re-write so that future boards aren't under the pressure of quorum requirements when only 3 people really do the work.


Former HOA President
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/26/2017 2:53 PM
Those are Board Officer positions. Which often can make up a board. However, in some HOA's a board consist of Officers and general board members. Kind of a "Member at large" kind of thing if you want that 5th position.

Generally your members elect the board. The board then elects amongst themselves the officer positions. Our HOA was so apathetic that you pretty much just told members what position you wanted and got it.

You don't necessarily need a lot of board members if your HOA is rather apathetic or small. I recommend 3 to 5 members as a minimum. Once you get to a larger number it becomes harder to fill consistently due to apathy or disinterest issues that tend to ebb and flow with any HOA. Matter of fact our HOA had 107 member. It required 7 board members. We barely got 7 people to show to a meeting! So we reduced that number in our re-write so that future boards aren't under the pressure of quorum requirements when only 3 people really do the work.


I want to make sure I understand the terminology here.

So "Board Members" doesn't necessarily mean the elected officers.

Up till now, our "Board", "Elected Board", Board of Directors and our "Officers" are all the same people. (four of us).

My concern with the even number is a tie in voting. Can any resident that shows up to a "Board Meeting" be allowed to vote to break a tie?
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/24/2017 4:25 PM

The Association needs to develop a written enforcement policy.

A Typical policy is:

1) Informal warning (verbal or written)
2) Formal warning (written with x days to comply)
3) Hearing before the Board or enforcement committee
4) Monetary penalties start to occur (if authorized)
5) Legal action through the courts (and perhaps liens/foreclosure options for any nonpayment of fines - however laws vary from State to State and such action for fines may not be allowed).

Also, there are times, such as in the case of the Garage being built, that the Association may need to expedite the process and even bring legal action as a first step (injunction to stop all work) to protect it's options.

Thank you for this, Tim. I'm going to use this to help develop our own enforcement policy.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
General membership don't have the power to break a tie. It may be the President's decision as the tie breaker. General membership vote is for electing the Board to represent them as a whole.

General membership vote typical gives them the power to vote in/out a board and to change the rules of the HOA. The Board vote involves the every day running of the HOA. Usually budgetary/business/representative type of voting for the general membership as a whole. Officer positions just divide the responsibilities into specific areas.

My suggestion is to have a 5th board position that is just a board position. The rules say must have a quorum of board members. Well the officer positions are also board. So then if you have 3 votes of 5 board that should count as the quorum requirement.

Former HOA President
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/26/2017 3:18 PM
General membership don't have the power to break a tie. It may be the President's decision as the tie breaker. General membership vote is for electing the Board to represent them as a whole.

General membership vote typical gives them the power to vote in/out a board and to change the rules of the HOA. The Board vote involves the every day running of the HOA. Usually budgetary/business/representative type of voting for the general membership as a whole. Officer positions just divide the responsibilities into specific areas.

My suggestion is to have a 5th board position that is just a board position. The rules say must have a quorum of board members. Well the officer positions are also board. So then if you have 3 votes of 5 board that should count as the quorum requirement.

Would these five postions suite then?

President
Vice President
Treasurer
Secretary
Board Member

The board member, I assume, would have no other responsibility than voting. Kind of like an "officer in training" LOL.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Also, How should I go about picking this fifth member? (I'm the president) Would there need to be an election held where the general membership votes?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/26/2017 3:03 PM

I want to make sure I understand the terminology here.

So "Board Members" doesn't necessarily mean the elected officers.

Up till now, our "Board", "Elected Board", Board of Directors and our "Officers" are all the same people. (four of us).

My concern with the even number is a tie in voting. Can any resident that shows up to a "Board Meeting" be allowed to vote to break a tie?


Douglas,

In incorporated HOA's, the common practice is for the membership to elect those who serve on the Board of Directors. Those people are known as Directors and their function should be to set the course for the HOA by adopting its policies, setting a budget, and managing the overall finances. Each director has powers, duties, and authorities equal to every other director. In the real world of business corporations, a board of directors may as seldom as once a year. Only directors may vote at meetings of the board, however Arizona state law requires the board to allow homeowner members to attend and speak before a vote is taken.

Officers are the persons who are supposed to run the corporation on a day-to-day basis. In the HOA realm, the board of directors appoints the officers; it is not common for the general membership to vote for them. Common practice is to fill the officer positions from the ranks of the board of directors, in which case each officer is also a director - although not each director may be an officer. Officers are limited in their powers and duties by the bylaws. In the real world of business corporations, most officers are paid employees of the corporation but not members of the board of directors.

In Arizona, as in many other states, meetings of the board must be announced in advance, have a posted agenda, and be open to any homeowner who wishes to attend. Officers have no such requirement when exercising their duties.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Douglas, Larry knows your state exceedingly well. I would rely on his information.

I'd only add that the Bylaws normally state how many directors your HOA should have. It's unusual they'd require four for exactly the reason you state.

In an HOA of your size, three directors would be typical with perhaps a combo secretary/treasurer or VP/sec'y. Do your Bylaws state that there must be 4 officers?? Do your Bylaws say all officers must be directors?

Say, wait, are you incorporated? So you do have Bylaws??

If they require five, the 5th could be simply called a director as in my HOA or a director at large--doesn't matter much.

It generally is a good idea to start a new thread as your original topic might not be of interest to all readers who might be able to help with the topic of directors & officers.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/26/2017 1:57 PM
T
I'm going to use this thread for other questions I have, unless that's frowned upon, in which case I'll start a new one.

Threads going off into related tangents are typical.
Example: Too many pets - FHA guidelines concerning animals

However, if it's a new topic (covenant enforcement - Election of Directors) it is best to start a new topic with that heading. This helps those with similar issues to quickly find the topic.

Tim
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/26/2017 1:57 PM
We currently have 4 board positions:

President
Vice President
Treasurer
Secretary

I had a brief meeting with an attorney and he suggested having 5. What would be a good fifth position to add? I was thinking "sergeant of arms". LOL. Just kidding of course.


Does this attorney think your association is the Special Olympics where everyone gets a medal? Five directors and five officers?

Arizona law does not require any set number of officers nor does it dictate any specific titles. You could call the officers Tom, Dick, and Harry. The annual report form from the Corporation Commission requires naming the officers, if any, and their titles.

One thing to keep in mind: A Director who acts in good faith is generally immune from lawsuits. There is no such immunity for officers, even though the officer may also be a director. Any action taken at any time and place outside of a board meeting by a director who is also an officer is fair game for a civil action.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/27/2017 6:00 AM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/26/2017 1:57 PM
We currently have 4 board positions:

President
Vice President
Treasurer
Secretary

I had a brief meeting with an attorney and he suggested having 5. What would be a good fifth position to add? I was thinking "sergeant of arms". LOL. Just kidding of course.


Does this attorney think your association is the Special Olympics where everyone gets a medal? Five directors and five officers?

Arizona law does not require any set number of officers nor does it dictate any specific titles. You could call the officers Tom, Dick, and Harry. The annual report form from the Corporation Commission requires naming the officers, if any, and their titles.

One thing to keep in mind: A Director who acts in good faith is generally immune from lawsuits. There is no such immunity for officers, even though the officer may also be a director. Any action taken at any time and place outside of a board meeting by a director who is also an officer is fair game for a civil action.


I'm sure he figures our association is the equivalent to that right now. He suggested 5 simply because it's an odd number and would prevent ties in votes. It doesn't make sense at all to eliminate an officer in order to go to three.

My problem is still the terminology and how it pertains to us specifically. Just about time I think I have an understanding I read something that muddies it up again.

I have scheduled a Board meeting on tuesday night to discuss many things.

Before I ask another question, I'll go start a new thread!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Douglas

Typically BOD Members are elected by owners or appointed by the BOD.

Typically the Officers of an association are elected by the BOD Members from among themselves.

Typically not all Members of the BOD are Officers but all Officers are Members of the BOD. All BOD Members get to vote.

There are some variances to the above but they are to numerous to get into.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/26/2017 4:26 PM
Also, How should I go about picking this fifth member? (I'm the president) Would there need to be an election held where the general membership votes?


From the conversation it appears you are a newly elected BOD of 4 Directors; however, your attorney suggests 5 Directors to prevent voting ties. Potentially the current 4 Directors would vote for the 5th Director to serve until your next election. At the next election the membership will vote for 5 instead of 4. This is also what would happen if your have a Director resign in the middle of their term for some reason. The others would replace with someone of their choice to serve until the next membership meeting to vote for new Directors.

You also need to make sure exactly what your CCR's and/or Bylaws contain and your BOD along with your attorney may need to put forth amendments if needed to documents noting desired Directors. Again, as I noted above and as Larry stated I am surprised you have so many for a small HOA. Down the road you might encounter possibly apathy or burnout. Many much larger HOA's can have problems filling 5-7 Director positions with 100+ Owners.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
With only 20 lots, a BOD of 3 would be sufficient. President, VP & Treasurer (one person), Secretary. With 3 you will need two for a Quorum and if all 3 vote, there will be no ties.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Thanks for the answers!

This thread was about enforcing the CC&R's. Two things have been mentioned: A fee schedule and an enforcement policy. It was then said that I needed to make sure the CC&R's allowed for these things.

I found this verbiage:

The Board of Directors shall have the right to adopt, amend and repeal rules and regulations pertaining to the operation, management and use of the Common Area or the operation of the Association.

Does that sound like the BOD can create and adopt an enforcement policy and a fee schedule?

AND, does it mean they could also modify both in the future if needed?

Again, thanks in advance!
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/30/2017 1:30 PM
Thanks for the answers!

This thread was about enforcing the CC&R's. Two things have been mentioned: A fee schedule and an enforcement policy. It was then said that I needed to make sure the CC&R's allowed for these things.

I found this verbiage:

The Board of Directors shall have the right to adopt, amend and repeal rules and regulations pertaining to the operation, management and use of the Common Area or the operation of the Association.

Does that sound like the BOD can create and adopt an enforcement policy and a fee schedule? Yes

AND, does it mean they could also modify both in the future if needed? Yes

Again, thanks in advance!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Janet. However, nothing the board does in this regard may conflict with or contradict anything in the higher level docs, i.e., the CC&Rs; Articles, or Bylaws.

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