Adding new subdivision

Started by AmyA1 • 20 replies • 1533 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

I am in Washington state. Our HOA has been around since the 80's. The developer still owned a some land and recently sold it to a developer that would like to add it to our HOA. There has been talk been nothing mentioned in the meetings minutes and the details. I just noticed one of those big signs they put up for construction stating our HOA and subdivision. My question is wouldn't it be an association vote or at least a motion made by the board to accept the subdivision?
Due to my work schedule I cannot attend BOD meetings. But have in the past and do serve on committees.
I really think this should be voted on by all members, since it will effect our dues income and common properties.

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Amy, my thought would be to rely on the original plat of the geographic area covered by your homeowners association. If the plat sold was within the original plat, it would appear that your governing documents would cover the additional area. Are your governing documents silent on the expansion of the area covered by your hoa? If so - and your original plat was within the area - it would appear that your association would have the right to modify your governing documents to address this. What do u think?

oljim, in texas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/23/2017 6:56 AM
I am in Washington state. Our HOA has been around since the 80's. The developer still owned a some land and recently sold it to a developer that would like to add it to our HOA. There has been talk been nothing mentioned in the meetings minutes and the details. I just noticed one of those big signs they put up for construction stating our HOA and subdivision. My question is wouldn't it be an association vote or at least a motion made by the board to accept the subdivision?
Due to my work schedule I cannot attend BOD meetings. But have in the past and do serve on committees.
I really think this should be voted on by all members, since it will effect our dues income and common properties.

Read your CC&R's to see if there is a clause allowing the Declarant to annex additional land into the development. If there is such a clause then the addition of new development is beyond the control of your association. My own development of rural lots has such a clause and the original developer has added new units nearly 40 times over the last 20+ years.

I also would agree with Jim that if the new development is located on land previously platted as being in the same tract as the older development that the new homes will become part of your association as they are sold.

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

It was never platted or included in any of our documents that I have seen. Nothing in our CC&R's about expanding.

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/23/2017 7:42 AM
It was never platted or included in any of our documents that I have seen. Nothing in our CC&R's about expanding.

Good information.

I would think that, if the adjoining land was not included in your original plat, you appear to have no jurisdiction over it - and it is likely up to the new owner make his/her own decisions about it. What do you think?

oljim, in texas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JimR24 on 01/23/2017 7:17 AM
Amy, my thought would be to rely on the original plat of the geographic area covered by your homeowners association. If the plat sold was within the original plat, it would appear that your governing documents would cover the additional area. Are your governing documents silent on the expansion of the area covered by your hoa? If so - and your original plat was within the area - it would appear that your association would have the right to modify your governing documents to address this. What do u think?

oljim, in texas

I would add to also check with your County Records to make sure there is no Amendment or other documents filed for your subdivision which you may not be aware of or may have been filed behind owner's backs.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

My question is what is the problem with the addition? Would they not be responsible to pay dues and be members? Maybe it will be a sub-HOA and the original the Master.

Former HOA President

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/23/2017 7:42 AM
It was never platted or included in any of our documents that I have seen. Nothing in our CC&R's about expanding.

If what you state is correct then the answer to your question would be yes should be voted on by members. Because to add more units to your HOA will require the CCR's to be Amended by proper vote. Your HOA is currently defined by the Plat and maybe other statements in the CCR's noting how many units the HOA contains.

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

I have double checked everything and I believe the owners do need to vote on this.

A sign has been placed on the property stating our development name and new division number. I also found this quote in our November meeting minutes; "The developer of Tract A/B sent a copy of the landscape plan they are proposing and asked if the Board would send a letter to the City of Bothell indicating our approval. They believe it may help with the approval process."

I will now ask the board if a letter was sent and what it stated. I don't have a problem with adding the 12 new homes, but want it done right and also would like some information. (will the streets be city or owned by hoa. Are they adding any greenbelts which we need to maintained, we are responsible for our detection ponds and are they sufficient if adding the lots.)

Thank you for helping me think this through and making sure I have checked everything before opening my mouth. LOL

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/24/2017 6:05 AM
I have double checked everything and I believe the owners do need to vote on this.

A sign has been placed on the property stating our development name and new division number. I also found this quote in our November meeting minutes; "The developer of Tract A/B sent a copy of the landscape plan they are proposing and asked if the Board would send a letter to the City of Bothell indicating our approval. They believe it may help with the approval process."

I will now ask the board if a letter was sent and what it stated. I don't have a problem with adding the 12 new homes, but want it done right and also would like some information. (will the streets be city or owned by hoa. Are they adding any greenbelts which we need to maintained, we are responsible for our detection ponds and are they sufficient if adding the lots.)

Thank you for helping me think this through and making sure I have checked everything before opening my mouth. LOL

Sure do appreciate you posting this for us Amy - very interesting discussion.

Thanks!

oljim, in stexas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I have been in two HOA's that were built in two stages. The 2nd phases were "mentioned" in the early Covenants but were never clearly defined.

Situation A. Developer wanted to build out Phase 2 identical to Phase 1. The elected BOD got greedy and decided they wanted an "entrance/amenity" fee from the Developer. BOD hired a lawyer and went after the Developer. The developer fought fire with fire and filed a zoning change from 3-4 townhomes per building to high rise buildings. Panic pursued. The legal battles began. In the end most of the BOD was replaced. The new BOD said they would drop any legal action if the Developer developed Phase 2, identical to Phase 1. The Developer said he would and he was willing to pay a small (very small) fee to the HOA as each new townhome was sold. Bottom line was the Developer got what he wanted and the HOA lost money do to legal fees.

Situation B (my present HOA). Phase 1 were duplexes. Two single story units per building. Phase 2 was mentioned in the original Covenants/Bylaws. Developer decided to build single family units in Phase 2 (section I live in). He had plans drawn up and sent a letter to existing owners. The singles would look near identical to the duplexes, would sell for more money, and have less votes like 80 to 32. Not a single duplex owner complained though the wording in the Covenants would have allowed the Developer to do as he wished. It went very smooth.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/24/2017 6:05 AM

I will now ask the board if a letter was sent and what it stated. I don't have a problem with adding the 12 new homes, but want it done right and also would like some information. (will the streets be city or owned by hoa. Are they adding any greenbelts which we need to maintained, we are responsible for our detection ponds and are they sufficient if adding the lots.)

Thank you for posting update ... an interesting topic.

Those are great questions to ask! Also you have not noted how many current units exist without the 12 additional. Potentially the original HOA does not want to end up with minimal votes vs. the developer additional 12.

I would also recommend sending a letter to the BOD "Certified Return Receipt" asking how they intend to Amend the current CCR's to accommodate the additional units. This would potentially answer some of your current questions.

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

So I have found out that this land was part of the original PUD (planned unit development)for our HOA in 1969.
Now in taking a closer look at our Covenants, which still include the developer, I think the parcels are included in a section called undeveloped land. Our Covenants are dated 1980, I know they need to be updated asap.
I looked at the property records and in 1993 the Association recorded a quick claim deed to clear title back to the developer. We have never collected Assoc dues from this property and it has always been stated it is not part of our HOA.
Covenants:
ANNEXATION OF UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES
Section 1. It is understood that the undeveloped properties (Exhibit "A”) have been presented to the City of Bothell as proposed plats, to wit: Divisions No.5, 6, 7 and 8.
Section 2. If within five (5) years from the date of recording this amended Declaration, the Developer should file of record any or all of said proposed plats (as amended and approved by the City of Bothell), said additional properties shall be immediately annexed to this Planned Unit Development and become subject to this amended Declaration without the approval of the Association or any of its members.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmyA1 on 01/25/2017 7:08 AM
So I have found out that this land was part of the original PUD (planned unit development)for our HOA in 1969.
Now in taking a closer look at our Covenants, which still include the developer, I think the parcels are included in a section called undeveloped land. Our Covenants are dated 1980, I know they need to be updated asap.
I looked at the property records and in 1993 the Association recorded a quick claim deed to clear title back to the developer. We have never collected Assoc dues from this property and it has always been stated it is not part of our HOA.
Covenants:
ANNEXATION OF UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES
Section 1. It is understood that the undeveloped properties (Exhibit "A”) have been presented to the City of Bothell as proposed plats, to wit: Divisions No.5, 6, 7 and 8.
Section 2. If within five (5) years from the date of recording this amended Declaration, the Developer should file of record any or all of said proposed plats (as amended and approved by the City of Bothell), said additional properties shall be immediately annexed to this Planned Unit Development and become subject to this amended Declaration without the approval of the Association or any of its members.

It looks like possibly more than 5 years after the date of recording the amended Declaration in 1993 the property was deeded back to the developer. Since the time frame for the Developer to exercise a reserved right in the CCR's (5 years) has passed he will need approval of the Association and its members. If he had exercised the right within the 5 year limitation he would not have needed approval.

You might go in and talk to your local government Planning Department to see what they are approving with regards to the new subdivision.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Amy

You were more wrong than right about the expansion being in the original PUD. You are also assuming the developer did not plat the expansion within the 5 year window. I would be careful saying this in case, as before, you did not check real deep.

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

Being in the original PUD is stated on the Notice of Complete Application and Optional SEPA Notice I just picked up.
The 5 yrs time frame has pasted.

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

WHY would this new sub even want to be connected with your HOA. Are they landlocked in by roads you own? Amenities they want?

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

That is a question for the new developer. LOL We are a community of manufactured homes. In a high end area. 3 sides of the land boarder our HOA the 4th a school. We do maintain our detention ponds, which they would need to use... other than that???? The way I understand it having the original PUD they might be able to get smaller lots. So selling 12 lots for about 300k rather than 9 at 500k plus not having to build stick build house would be another 10-15%. It's all about the money.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Amy

Why do you not want them to be part of your association?

AmyA1 (Washington)
Posts: 101

Posted:

I didn't say I that. I just want to make sure it is done correctly. Like I said there has not been any talk of the addition at board meetings. When the development signage went up I had questions. I noticed a few things in the Application and SEPA Notice and one mention in the board meetings that they had sent the city a letter of approval. I'm worried that both the city and developer are under the impression that they will be accepted. I have brought it up to the board that we should have more information and that an association vote might be in order. They said they would contact our attorney. I'm just hoping we are not starting this out with miscommunication

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here