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PatR2 (Utah)
Posts: 6
Posted:
So, Hi, Im new here and I have a question I can't seem to find an answer for and here it is:

What can I do if my CC&R's are completely illegible? The ONLY copy of these documents that is known to exist is a very badly copied and scanned set from years before quality scanners. This makes the documents difficult in the good places and completely worthless in others. How am I, as an owner, supposed to know what I am and am not account for, or what powers the community does or doesn't have without these? More importantly, what legal ground to I have to stand on if I am asked to defend myself against policies that I can't read? Does anyone have any insight to damaged, destroyed or missing governing documents and what It means for owners and board members?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Since the CC&Rs are attached to your deed and recorded with the County, go to the County court house or records office and ask for a copy (you will likely have to pay for it).
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Like Tim says. Go to your county courthouse Record's department. CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are considered PUBLIC documents. The CC&R's being at the county and Articles of Incorporation State. Most likely available on a website for Articles in many states. By-laws/Rules/Regulations/ACC documents are INTERNAL HOA documents. The HOA are to keep/maintain them.

It is looked upon as YOUR responsibility to be informed when dealing with these documents. Some states require the seller to provide upon closing. Some states there is no such requirement. Hence why the documents are considered PUBLIC so that one can't blame all the lawyer, banks, title companies, and Realtors for not providing.

Former HOA President
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
In my county I don't even have to go to an office, all recorded documents (including our CCRs) are available for free online. In our case, they are available from the county Comptrollers office, but the name of the office would probably vary by jurisdiction.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Whenever I have purchased a home, the title company has obtained official copies of all public records pertaining to my property. Copies of those records were included with the title reports they give me. You may already have a good-quality copy of the CC&R's in the paperwork from the purchase of your home.

I suspect that your deed contains a phrase something along the lines of "subject to the restrictions set forth in Book xxxx, Page xxxx, of the official records of xxxx County." If so, then the recorded CC&R's control, not the copy of a copy of a copy of a copy supplied by someone else. As long as the recorded CC&R's are legible it would seem that you have no grounds for claiming that the governing documents are "damaged, destroyed or missing."

PatR2 (Utah)
Posts: 6
Posted:
According to everyone I've talked to, this badly copied version IS the official copy. They originals are lost to time I understand.
PatR2 (Utah)
Posts: 6
Posted:
According to everyone I've talked to, this badly copied version IS the official copy. They originals are lost to time I understand.
PatR2 (Utah)
Posts: 6
Posted:
My documents do indicate, but when I asked about it, they mentioned that the copy on record is the same thing I have (and received with my closing docs)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You may want to take the time to verify that by going to the records office yourself.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Those documents legally have to be filed. So a copy is to be in the records department. Plus they may have online copies if they ever scanned the documents.

If this is the only document, I would HIGHLY recommend you all update and file a copy. The process is to be in the documents itself.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatR2 on 01/23/2017 1:58 PM
My documents do indicate, but when I asked about it, they mentioned that the copy on record is the same thing I have (and received with my closing docs)


Who is "they?" I interpret your remarks to mean that you have not sought a copy of the recorded declaration directly from your county recorder. The whole purpose of recording a document with the county is to prevent it from being lost to time.

I have no doubt that your copy of the declaration is a copy of the recorded document. But if it is illegible then it is likely not a direct copy but a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.

Should you seek some sort of judicial relief based on this allegation that the original must be illegible because the copy you have is illegible I can guarantee you that the association's attorney will enter into evidence a legible and certified copy straight from the recorder's office. Someone in that courtroom will look like an idiot and it won't be the judge or the association's lawyer.

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