Neighborhood watch peogram

Started by LavaK • 16 replies • 1826 views

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LavaK (North Carolina)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Hi All
To start a neighborhood watch program in the community do we need to have HOA approval.
So they have to be in the program.

LavaK (North Carolina)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I mean to ask do they have to be?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Do NOT mix the watch with the HOA!!!. It should be its own thing. Now you may want to work with and get approval via the HOA? You do NOT want to mix any kind of funding. The watch can be made of everybody regardless if a HOA member. The HOA may need to approve the signage associated with one.

Overall do NOT mix the two even though they do co exist... The list is long why. We had one in HOA that I created. It was good. We worked with local police who will help set one up with you.

Former HOA President

LavaK (North Carolina)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Thanks for your reply.
Does neighborhood watch program need any approvals from HOA?
Since the program is for community can we use community clubhouse with out paying rental fees?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'd say, Lava, that unless the Watch Program is approved by your HOA's Board of Directors via their votes at a board meeting, that such a group would pay the usual rental fee just like any other group that wants to meet there.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Again, the neighborhood watch would NOT be associated or part of the HOA itself. It's a "club" in it's own right. Although it is made up of mostly HOA members. Thus it would face any rule or approval any other club would face. That does include paying for the clubhouse rental.

There are reasons why you do NOT mix the neighborhood watch with the HOA. The very first and basic reason... LIABILITY. Remember the Travon Martin case? The HOA funded and the neighborhood watch was part of the HOA. When one of the members of the HOA/watch shot and killed Travon guess who got sued? EVERY SINGLE LAST MEMBER of the HOA/WATCH!!!. The Watch bein uninsured to cover cost requiring each owner to be responsible for the pay out of the millions of dollars won.

So my dear keep the WATCH funded and separate from the HOA. Or else EVERYONE pays!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/07/2017 12:09 PM
Again, the neighborhood watch would NOT be associated or part of the HOA itself. It's a "club" in it's own right. Although it is made up of mostly HOA members. Thus it would face any rule or approval any other club would face. That does include paying for the clubhouse rental.

There are reasons why you do NOT mix the neighborhood watch with the HOA. The very first and basic reason... LIABILITY. Remember the Travon Martin case? The HOA funded and the neighborhood watch was part of the HOA. When one of the members of the HOA/watch shot and killed Travon guess who got sued? EVERY SINGLE LAST MEMBER of the HOA/WATCH!!!. The Watch bein uninsured to cover cost requiring each owner to be responsible for the pay out of the millions of dollars won.

So my dear keep the WATCH funded and separate from the HOA. Or else EVERYONE pays!

Melissa is right. If associated with the HOA in any way, shape, or form you are opening the door to problems. Even then, having them meet in one's house still opens the door to legal problems.

Melissa is right. If associated with the HOA in any way, shape, or form you are opening the door to problems. Even then, having them meet in one's house still opens the door to legal problems.

Lava. Do you live is such a crime ridden neighborhood that you need such?

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

This is at least one time I agree with Melissa!

The neighborhood watch is NOT for protection or service to the community though that might be a collateral benefit. It is municipal-based and funded. The HOA should treat a municipal-based Crime Watch activity like any club which conducts activities on the common areas, such as a state-based bingo gaming activity or mason's meetings. The HOA should keep its corporate nose OUT of these activities and concern itself only with use of common areas such as the roadways travelled by Crime Watch Security Patrols. These patrols are NOT to be used as an auxillary security tool for owners or the board. They are only charged with very limited response in reporting crime activity in the neighborhood.

They are trained to NEVER insert themselves in resident or HOA affairs. They can only contact a Dispatcher if they believe a problem exists that would benefit from police presence.

If your HOA does not have private roads, the Neighborhood Watch is likely totally independent of the reach of the HOA rules. Patrol watch would be conducted by citizens in their own cars. In my community, the roads are private and golf carts are permitted and used for "patrols"; thus the activity is subject to restrictions applicable for all special interest activities on common property.

They also serve a social and entertainment function; people love to ride around in their golf carts with security caps and tee shirts and see what's happening and usually carry dog biscuits. While it gives the illusion of HOA-sponsored security, this is not so and Management should never support this illusion. There is an agreement between the municipality and the sponsoring individual in the community that defines the relationship regardless of what people think.

It is this independent relationship that Melissa is stressing needs to be partitioned to protect the HOA from liability.

LavaK (North Carolina)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Thanks forvthe reply.
If one Home Owner takes the lead this effort, does it still have issues if we let them use club house free.
Also can that ine HOme Owner collect liability waiver from all others who want to participate in this program.
That way people know they are on their own interest to be in this program.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In my opinion, Lava, if the board lets them use the club f house for free, it seems like the board/HOA has approved of or sanctioned the group. Other have pointed out that there should be no connection between the Watch & the HOA, and they make sense.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

LavaK, when it comes to "use" of the clubhouse, maybe it's important for us to better understand who has to pay to use it, and what does the "use" constitute? Is simply meeting in a room for a period of time considered "use". Or is "use" considered holding an event that requires catering, table and chair setup, several hours of time, cleaning, etc.

Does any single homeowner who goes into the clubhouse have to pay to get in there? What is inside that would need to be reserved and/or paid for . . . especially when it comes to your Neighborhood Watch concept?

My point is that if any homeowner can go in there anytime for whatever their purpose, and are permitted to do that simply because they are homeowners in the HOA, then any small number of owners should be permitted to do the same at the same time. This could be your Neighborhood Watch meeting. No permission needed from anyone for several owners to congregate at the same time and talk. You're not doing anything illegal so there should be no issue.

As most have mentioned, while the HOA Board should probably be aware of a Watch Program in the neighborhood, they shouldn't be involved in organization, support of it, or in allocating resources for it. But in my opinion, the clubhouse is a resource for homeowners . . . every month, you all are paying money for it to exist and be available for use. If a handful of homeowners (your Watch Program) need a place to gather and talk, then there shouldn't be an issue in my opinion. However if there is such an issue and concern with using the clubhouse, then agree to meet somewhere else . . . local school, FD, library meeting room, someone's house, etc.

I've investigated the possibility of a Neighborhood Watch program before. It can be as involved as some people like GwenG have explained, or it can be much more loosely organized where local law enforcement is aware and supportive of the initiative, but true responsibility for organization and activities falls on the watch group. Depends on what is typical in your state/area. I'd reach out to local law enforcement for input and advice as well.

BelindaH (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I am new to posting on this forum but have been a member for a while now. I am a former board member of a 466 unit condo HOA. I enjoy seeing issues other HOA's deal with and how they are handled.

The Neighborhood Watch Program is of particular interest to me.

We recently revived our watch program after it being dormant for a few years. The leader of this program is a board member. This person had our management print flyers and then had our maintenance staff post the flyers in all the usual places that official HOA notices are posted. This was something that never happened when I was on the board.

I emailed our management company and reminded them that in order to try to protect the HOA in the case of a lawsuit the watch program must be completely separated from the HOA, including the printing of flyers and HOA staff posting them. Our manager mentioned it to the board member who basically said it was none of my business.

Am I correct in thinking that what they have done is the wrong way to go about this? I know this is not a big deal now but it could become one. We've had some major changes in our board recently as people were getting tired of the same few people for the last 15 years. I'm not certain they are changes for the better but time will tell.

Thanks for any input.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Belinda,

Realistically, if anything happens (and regardless if the watch is supported by the HOA), a good attorney will name the HOA in the lawsuit. The HOA will then have to defend itself to the court and prove why they should not be part of the legal action or, and this is what the attorney hopes, the Association will simply settle (as it may be cheaper then a legal defense).

That is exactly what happened in the Trayvon Martin's case against that HOA.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm with Tim, Belinda. And based on that, it certainly IS your business since you are a member of your HOA. So, I'd place it on an open board meeting agenda, with your written agenda request expressing concerns about liability.

BTW, Belinda, if you're not familiar with it, go to Davis-stirling.com to see if that site has anything to say about Watch programs. The site is devoted solely to CA HOA and topics (though some are generalizable to other states).

Lava, ND says it all. Our HOA, for instance has two rooms suitable for meetings/parties up to 50 people, and a conference rm. that accommodates 10. If residents want to guarantee only they/their group can use it, they must reserve it & pay. But folks do take their chances that no one will come in and use the rooms. One has a fairly big-TV screen, so we expect some folks will go their for the NFL playoffs.

BelindaH (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Tim and Kerry, thanks for the reply.

I understand that the HOA would likely be named in the event something happened. That's just the way life is nowadays, unfortunately. My belief is that there should be a clear and distinct separation of the 2.

Kerry, Davis-Stirling has been my "bible" since my board days. They are my first go to when I have a question. Sometimes they are a little vague which is understandable because there are so many variations of a particular situation.

I will stand my ground on this one.

Thanks again!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You do know what that means when the HOA wants to be held responsible if something happens? The HOA is YOU and your neighbors... So again, this why you keep it separate from the HOA even though it's made up of basically the same people.

I had a neighborhood watch in my neighborhood. Which I started even as President. However, made sure we did not mix the two. We did use our clubhouse but it was more along the lines of it is owned by the members and hardly ever used. No one cared. Plus we really did not "meet". Our Neighborhood watch was more like "keep an eye out on each other and spread the word". See something say something kind of mindset.

A neighborhood watch doesn't have to be formal. Like us, it was just if something happened it was posted or word passed. Often I would be called on to report incidents to the police on someone's behalf. We did not do patrols or arm ourselves. It was all kept "neighborly".

So depends on how intense you want your HOA. My friend's HOA they are trained and armed group of people who take turns patrolling their neighborhood. Ours was word of mouth and a sign. It's possible to have the best of both worlds. Just keep them each other universes but not each others moons..

Former HOA President

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

It is NOT the HOA, Inc.'s job to watch the neighborhood.

It is their job to maintain the common elements, period.

If you want a 'watch program' contact your local LE and start one.

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