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VijaiD (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Hello,
Our documents say that no corporation can own property in our condo association. A few years ago, the board sent a message allowing us to rent our units under the "hardship provision". But the board also allowed sales of unit to investors who do not live on the property. One investor owns 30+properties and he puts the worst tenants in here, he has sat on the board last year and has stolen money from the association (pocketing rent money for a unit we hold title to).

How do we get rid of him and the other investors, since our documents are very very clear that this practice is not allowed.

thanks for your help.

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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If you have proof of stolen money, you turn him into law enforcement for embezzlement.

Realistically, it's likely you won't be getting rid of any investor that has that many properties within your development.
If this is an issue, you may just want to sell.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
How does somebody rent out a unit they don't own? And how does the board allow this to happen?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You can’t have a buyer without a seller, so unless your documents state the board must approve a buyer (unlikely and usually illegal because you run into discrimination issues), there may not be anything you can do about homeowners who sell to investors. I suspect what’s happened is that those homes went into foreclosure and the bank sold them to whoever had the money to pay off the loan or most of it. Or the investor got them from a tax sale. That’s usually how you wind up with a lot of investors (it’s happened in my own community). The banks or whoever holds the note doesn’t give a damn about the documents or what they say, they just want the money.

As for this investor with 30 properties, the homeowners should have rallied together to get him off the board (assuming there are enough homes to outnumber the 30 he owns, so you could all start a recall). For that matter, I’d also take a look at the other board members – are all of them investor-owners and let this guy do whatever? If you have the numbers, you may be able to vote all of them out, but it will take cooperation from ALL of the remaining homeowners, which may include any investor-owners who are more reputable.

The stolen money is more serious – if you have proof, you and the other homeowners (including the other investor-owners who are more reputable) may need to pursue criminal charges against him or at least sue him for repayment. But as Tim said, with that many units, this guy holds a lot of power, so getting rid of him won’t be easy.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VijaiD on 01/06/2017 8:03 AM
Our documents say that no corporation can own property in our condo association. A few years ago, the board sent a message allowing us to rent our units under the "hardship provision". But the board also allowed sales of unit to investors who do not live on the property.


If the declaration prohibits sales of units to corporations and/or non-resident owners then the BOD would not have the power to to allow those sales without an amendment to your declaration.

Quote:

How do we get rid of him and the other investors, since our documents are very very clear that this practice is not allowed.


Most declarations have a clause allowing any member to enforce the declaration through civil action. You (and any other member) may terminate the investors' ownerships by filing a civil action seeking a court order to sell off the units. You should consult with an attorney before taking any action.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My question is: Are they not paying their dues? What does it matter after that? They are just like every other owner.

Now there are those rare cases of questionable business practices of certain investing companies. When I say rare, the situation has to fit a certain criteria. At which that then becomes an illegal situation with the STATE. Florida does have some laws in regards to this type of "home flipping" I believe. The situation usually involves condos and shoddy work/short term ownership. Meaning that an "investor" company will come in and remodel large groups of condos or entire buildings. They sell them off relatively quickly like less than a year. It is about that time that the shoddy work will then appear. We are talking bad plumbing, electrical, or structural issues. The owners have limited actions they can take against the seller/investor. A history of the investor doing this and being reported to the correct resource can result in prison time. I don't all the ins/outs of this but be aware in certain extreme cases there can be laws protecting buyers.

The missing cash the investor collected on a property the HOA needs more details. What exactly happen in this situation? Are they an LLC? Are they paying their dues anyways?

I wouldn't get rid of investors as much as I would hold them to the rules just like everyone else. Plus make a rule that ALL lease agreements must have the clause that the tenant has to follow the HOA rules. This will protect ALL involved.

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
VijaiD, your association has some real problems. The Florida Division of Corporations website shows your condo association filed an Amendment to its Articles of Incorporation earlier this year and the ONLY thing the amendment changes is the list of directors and officers. It looks like the association also paid an attorney to help them with that. The problem is, a corporation not-for-profit in the state of Florida does not NEED to file an amendment to its articles in order to accomplish that. A simple "Annual Report" suffices. If your board doesn't even know this, your management company doesn't know this, and the condo's attorney happily charges money for something that's not necessary... I think you've got real problems that extend beyond the troubles you're having with regards to ownership and renting of the units.

Learn as much as you can and then try to get on the board. Find some neighbors willing to do the same.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 01/08/2017 2:24 PM
VijaiD, your association has some real problems. The Florida Division of Corporations website shows your condo association filed an Amendment to its Articles of Incorporation earlier this year and the ONLY thing the amendment changes is the list of directors and officers. It looks like the association also paid an attorney to help them with that. The problem is, a corporation not-for-profit in the state of Florida does not NEED to file an amendment to its articles in order to accomplish that. A simple "Annual Report" suffices. If your board doesn't even know this, your management company doesn't know this, and the condo's attorney happily charges money for something that's not necessary... I think you've got real problems that extend beyond the troubles you're having with regards to ownership and renting of the units.

Learn as much as you can and then try to get on the board. Find some neighbors willing to do the same.


Geno is dead-right with this. Amending the Articles of Incorporation is not usually going to satisfy the requirement for filing an annual report. Your association definitely needs to find a new CAM and a new attorney.

BTW, I am always suspicious of attorneys who practice HOA law. Unlike business corporations, HOA's are run by people whose sole qualification is that they purchased a home within the association. Few HOA board members have any significant business or management experience and are just sitting ducks for unprincipled attorneys.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Please do not use actual names of people, properties, etc. (posting rules) - that can really come back to bite you in the behind and it WILL hurt!

You and your neighbors really need to go to an attorney to see what you can do -= you might want to check your local bar association for a referral to someone who’s well versed in HOA law. It’s true there are some ethically challenged ones out there, as Larry said, but you could also check with a few HOA communities in your area to see who they use and how happy they are with them.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
VijaiD (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
yes I shouldn't do that. sorry. I was just hoping someone had information on them that I could use when I take them to civil action.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
You allege that people have stolen money from your association. If there is proof of that then the current board might be in breach of their duty to investigate the situation. Gather support and signatures to recall some or all of the directors. Replace them with people who are turn the ship around.

How many units in your condo? How many are owned by people who live there and how many by outside investors?

If outside investors have enough votes to control the board and the document amendment process then you may be out of luck. One can always petition the courts for relief, but that's an expensive gamble if you're unsure of the facts.

It sounds to me like you're planning to leap before you look.

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