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JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Being in Colorado, we deal with a lot of snow each winter. Our contracted snow removal company has a requirement to remove snow when there is 2" or more and do so within 24 hours after the last snowflake has fallen. They did a poor job last year and with our 1 snow event so far this year. This weekend, we got 8" and it took them nearly 36 hours to respond. And when they did, their crews did a half assed job before quitting for the evening. On Monday, they still had not returned to finish the job. They never responded to any calls or texts other to blame the temps were too extreme to shovel. Myself and another board member took it upon ourselves to shovel as much as we could. Even 3 days later, the snow removal company has stopped communicating to us completely. We have no choice but to terminate their contract and look for a new company.

While all this was going on, one resident made several calls to our management company asking why her area hadn't been shoveled. The account manager did a pretty good job responding even though she didn't have any updates. By Monday, the homeowner was extremely irate and took to social media to berate the management company. I was then contacted Monday evening by the homeowner to let me know about the management's poor performance.

She and I have had several back and forth emails over that last 2 days and she can not be convinced that we have any competent people in charge. She thinks the board should fire both the management company and the snow removal company. The management company for not being able to get the snow removal company out there to shovel her area right after the snow stopped. I invited her to attend any upcoming board member and she wants to attend (but only if her schedule allows). Apparently, there is nothing I can say to placate her. She told me that I shouldn't have been the one out there shoveling snow. As of today, she is the only person that has complained about this weekend's snow and lack of timely clearing.

What would any of you say to her or advice for me? I know each association has difficult homeowners. Thanks for your input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It might help us if we know how many homes or condos in your HOA, Jerry.

Btw, can you terminate the snow removal contract on the spot? Did your board vote on this?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jerry

You yourself admit they did an haf a$$ and incomplete job. Maybe she is right. Maybe it is time for a change.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
What would any of you say to her or advice for me? I know each association has difficult homeowners. Thanks for your input.

I'd tell her to run for the board at the next election.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
We have 63 homes in garden court set ups.

While the board hasn't officially voted for termination of their contract, that is what I recommended yesterday in an email to the other board members. Our contract can be terminated immediately for non performance. Otherwise, we would have a 30-day notice. We also have indicated to the company that we are not paying for their shoddy work over the weekend. That is why we think they haven't gotten back to us. They see the writing on the wall.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 12/21/2016 7:06 PM
What would any of you say to her or advice for me? I know each association has difficult homeowners. Thanks for your input.


I'd tell her to run for the board at the next election.

I already told her that. That is when she said, "well I would love to attend board meetings if my schedules allowed it."

To me, she is like a lot of homeowners. They want to complain about services and performance but when it comes time to step and be on the board, they make excuses on why they cant.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Absolutely it is time for a change. The snow removal company had one of it's managing partners leave the company. The remaining partner assured us that it would not have any effect on current operations. Apparently he is in over his head. Our MC has several other properties in my area of town. They received 98 complaints about snow removal; 90 were for this same company.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Jerry,

Is there any language in your CC&R's that requires the association to clear snow from the roads within a specific time frame? State or local government requirements that apply to your association?

Interesting that out of 63 homes only one was screaming and she indicated that she would bother to attend the board meetings - where association business is supposed to be discussed - only when it was convenient for her. As far as addressing her complaints I would make sure that she knows when and where the board meets and continue to invite her to attend. In fact, that would be my only response to her. She has had the same opportunity to attend and speak up as any other owner yet declines to attend. You are under no obligation to extend special treatment to this one owner.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JerryD5 on 12/21/2016 6:48 PM
Being in Colorado, we deal with a lot of snow each winter. . . What would any of you say to her or advice for me ?

JerryD5 Col : 1 - Respectfully, could this owner have a medical or occupational necessity to travel reliably at early or late hours ? Whatever, maybe the next contractor's performance standards could require an early morning plow out after slightly lower trigger plowing point with full clearance by ? ( shorter deadline ? )

Does she use winter tires & drive a vehicle with AWD/4WD ?

2 - A separate issue is what to say when a stakeholder wants a higher performance standard.

Howsoever casual it sounds, stakeholders should be given a chance to argue for whatever enhanced level they want to persuade others to share the cost of providing. That is, as long as others want to help pay for the enhanced standard above prudent, lawful & covenanted performance.

Rarely are maintainers 'guarantors' nor 'insurers' of "You'll never have to wait again !"

"Want breakfast in bed ? Want to be carried in a sedan chair across the lobby ? Want shifts of paralegals on every floor ? No problem ! ! Just persuade others & help get everyone to pay . . ."
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
When I was on the BOD and we were being questioned about services I made the remark that we could offer any service we wanted to offer such as breakfast in bed on Sundays. All we had to do was figure out how to pay for it. Some did not get it.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I deal with people like this every day... I used to say had one homeowner that would complain about the sun being out during the day... Would put a work order with Mother Nature to turn it down at night...

Found it's best to use the "Shampoo method". That is listen - repeat - listen... No need to justify if you doing your best. Listen to what they have to say. Repeat what they just told you. Listen to more of their issues. Eventually a dialogue will develop and calm the situation down.

I had a policy if you presented an issue to the board you had to also present a solution. Otherwise, you had to agree to live with what the board decides. The choice is simple. You want an issue resolved you either come up with the solution (or suggestion of one) or live with OTHERS making the solution for you.

Former HOA President
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Thanks for everyone's responses and advice so far. I truly appreciate it. As I told the management company today, we are dedicating too many hours responding to her every inquiry. Today, she is still complaining. I told the management company tell her our next meeting is in March. She is more than welcome to being up any issue at that time. Our management company is frustrated. They are afraid she is going to take to social media again and berate both the management company and the association. I told our property manager, "go right ahead...we will deal with that if/when it happens."

This was her complaint a few months ago. We have a dead tree that needed to be removed. Our landscaping company would have normally cut it down and hauled it away. Suddenly, they decided they wanted to charge us $25. I figured I would save the association money and I went over and cut it down myself. She was glad the tree was down but why did I leave 4" stump? Um, I used my hand saw and tried to get as close to the ground as possible. "But it's a tripping hazard for any kids playing in the yard." In the spring, we plan on removing the entire stump so we can plant a replacement tree.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Jerry,

It does sound like you're coddling too much to this homeowner. And you can't let a single owner jeopardize the relationship with your management company. Sounds like you have given management your support, but reconfirm it to them, and permit them to put their foot down with the owner. Also recognize that not every issue brought to the board's attention requires a response. Respond quickly when necessary, but slowly or not at all when not necessary. Sometimes continually acknowledging an owners continual complaining means that they'll find more to complain about.

Also, I recommend that your Board immediately find another snow contractor, vet them appropriately, terminate your existing one, and hire the new company. Figure out the appropriate order to do all of that so you're constantly under contract in the even that you get snowfall which has to be cleared.

If you do that all quickly, you could preemptively post to social media that you were aware of the initial contractor's failures, worked hard to get the neighborhood cleared to the best of your ability, and quickly went out and hired a new company. That would go a long way to making your board look good/better in this situation. Nothing wrong with admitting that the company initially hired did not live up to expectations, but that you've replaced them and expect significantly better service.

I hate social media for the same reasons that you're experiencing. But I've found that more communication from the board, tackling issues as they arise (not letting them fester), and trying to politely and professionally shut down people like this is a good way to control many situations.

Finally, if I understand the tree situation that you just mentioned . . . I have to say that I side with the owner in this case. The tree should have been removed by the contractor who should have done a proper/complete job and not left a tripping hazard. I understand wanting to save money, but it's sometimes not worth the time spent and grief afterward in trying to do things yourself. Consider next time just leaving the dead tree in place until the appropriate time of year where it can be simultaneously removed and replaced by the contractor.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
BTW... I would also have you point out that if you sue your HOA, your suing yourself and your neighbors... A Fact not a lot don't want to accept. So if she threatens lawsuit, I would tell them that and then "Wait till get the paperwork. Good day!". Oh and for the Media seeking... May want to point out that it hurts everyone's ability to sell their home. Who wants to buy a home when nothing bad news comes out of it? Might not want to pretty up the horse crap when you need to sell the horse...

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with others, which ND summarizes nicely.

But I do worry about you cutting down the tree yourself. Would your HOA insurance have covered it if you'd been injured? And just to save $25? Did the Board vote to approve your doing this work?

It seems that your Board, at a meeting, needs to review your contracts to make sure you all understand them.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
The tree was maybe 10 foot high and died over the summer; it wasn't a large mature tree. This same homeowner complained that we let the tree stay up for as long as we did and why hadn't we cut it down. The stump left behind is only 3"- 4" in diameter. I could go over there and mark it with florescent paint or a flag.

Our HOA has insurance for all the board members. I asked for when I shovel sidewalks or do a few general maintenance items. The other board members knew I was going over there to cut down the tree (I did a 2nd tree in another area of the association as well).

Of course our management company is already compiling new snow removal companies. But now everyone is starting to shut down for Christmas (including our own management company) until after New Years. Fortunately, we do not have any significant snow expected anytime soon (if you believe our local weather person).

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 12/22/2016 11:04 AM
Also recognize that not every issue brought to the board's attention requires a response. Respond quickly when necessary, but slowly or not at all when not necessary. Sometimes continually acknowledging an owners continual complaining means that they'll find more to complain about.

Amen to that.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You're right, she'll just have to get over it. You couldn't control the snow and as you've said, your snow removal vendor did a piss poor job and the contract has been cancelled. I suppose it hasn't occurred to her that one reason the snow removal people could have been late is because there was an issue with the conditions of the street (private companies can't simply put down the snow plow and move the stuff out of the way on a city street). And what about the temperature drop - do you really want people to drop dead shoveling snow (which happens in a number of places every year)?

Interesting (and probably typical) that she also said she'd like to attend board meetings (but only if her schedule allows) - she was honked off enough to call and complain and then put everything out on social media - but doesn't seem to want to discuss the issue face to face. If one is really upset about something, he or she MAKES the time to deal with it.

If you have a website, put out an announcement apologizing for the company's performance and note that you now have another company. Remind people again of the snow removal policy so they'll know what to expect, and suggest one way to make the job easier and faster is to ensure cars are off the street so the plows can get through. This would also be a good time for people to notify the property manager if they have people in their homes with major medical conditions that may need priority for removal, such as people taking dialysis (which can't be rescheduled, so they need to get out as soon as possible).

If appropriate for your area, you may also want to remind people of snow emergencies. In 2013, the snow here was so bad that our county initiated a snow emergency (which is rare for Indianapolis). State law says when a county declares a snow emergency, no one can be driving about except for law enforcement, city/county snow removal people and first responders (otherwise you're hit with a stiff fine). That could also impact arrival time for your vendor.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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