Leak...fine...HOA dues...amenities taken away

Started by EswamiS • 15 replies • 1536 views

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EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I will try to make it short

We bought this condo in Oct 2016
Nov 2016 there was a bathroom leak, damage to our and down stair property
I will the issue with insurance out of this, but they basically denied the claim. they also suggested that HOA will sue you and we will defend you in court
HOA instead took my amenities away
My monthly due are around 300...and HOA was asking for around 4K for what HOA spent on the leak. I was paying 300$, my monthly dues on time every month. I was disputing the 4K.

HOA somehow clubbed these two and took my amenities away. Can HOA do that?
I am reading through the CC&R and I do not see any section about this topic...which topic should I be looking for? What key words should I search for?

Any ideas? Pointers?

This community was built in 1990s...and I think the CC&R are from that year...and have not been updated to my best knowledge.

Attaching copy of my CC&R.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I would assume you are now a member NOT in "Good standing" due to the money owed. Strange insurance did not pay. It should have been you or the other person's insurance that battled it out. Not sure how the HOA got involved to have paid the bill. However, now that they have, your most likely on the hook to them. If you are not in good standing then can figure in they will take away your amenities till you pay.

Former HOA President

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EswamiS . . . took my amenities away. Can HOA do that?
I am reading through the CC&R and I do not see any section about this topic...which topic should I be looking for? What key words should I search for ? Any ideas? Pointers ?

EswamiS Cal You will get some good advice from the California commenters.

Despite your focus on governancer's either legal or dubious self-help remedies, you should find out if the insurance denial was valid.

Respectfully a credible path is to ask : was the loss an insurable one ? If so, whose insurable loss ? How can it be slope-shouldered onto anyone else ? If my insurance could be triggered, what about the deductible ?

Basic unit, upgrades, contents, the blame-worthy factual aspects if any on the part of you or other occupants, may have a bearing on how your governance documents & the Davis Stirling Act sort out what the association can do to you. With adequate insurance & no blameworthiness, I wonder how much you would have had to suck up ?

EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I would assume you are now a member NOT in "Good standing" due to the money owed.

>As of right now, I believe I am a member in good standing as I DID PAY the HOA. BUT I am not happy. I feel there has to be some wrong done here. HOA should not be able to mix up a leak with amenities; especially when I am paying my monthly bills to them WHICH I believe is for amenities. I feel there has to be a way to differentiate that. They cannot be allowed to mix those two up; or can they? THat has to be in the governance document.

Not sure how the HOA got involved to have paid the bill.
>The leak was on a weekend and the neighbor called emergency service that HOA provides. It was a ball dropped on me as well as I should have looked at other options as well.

EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Despite your focus on governancer's either legal or dubious self-help remedies, you should find out if the insurance denial was valid.
Respectfully a credible path is to ask : was the loss an insurable one ? If so, whose insurable loss ? How can it be slope-shouldered onto anyone else ? If my insurance could be triggered, what about the deductible ?
>Yes, I thought I will start a different thread on that issue.

With adequate insurance & no blameworthiness, I wonder how much you would have had to suck up ?
>We were in the condo for less than 15 days when the leak happened. Apparently the toilet already had some issues and it just happened after the close. I feel HOA and insurance both did not do right and I feel I have no recourse? There has to be something I can do. I am hoping I can find out here.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

EswamiS

I am afraid you have provided no information that makes any sense.

If they took your amenities, did they call you to a hearing? That is required by law in California. If you had insurance, your agent should have been working in conjunction with the HOA's insurance as a property below you was also damaged.

You need legal advice, after the facts are borne out.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am a bit confused about the situation. Are you a renter or owner? When you say "monthly bills" do you mean HOA dues? I believe they can include fines in categorizing you as "In good standing". Money or damages owed should qualify.

Your bathroom leaked downstairs to a neighbor. The neighbor called the HOA to come repair it. The HOA repaired it while you were gone. They then sent you the bill for that repair. Did they also repair your unit? or just the neighbor? Did you not present the bill to your insurance?

You paid that bill but are you up to date with your dues? Just curious. If your paid up on ALL expenses, then I would say your "in good standing" to use the amenities. I would meet with the board and ask for them back. Unless there is more issues.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Eswami

Typically what you described could involve 3 insurance companies. Yours, the HOA's, and the damaged unit below you. Typically each would file a claim with their insurance company and let the 3 companies work it out (subrogate).

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Richard is right Eswami. In CA, the board cannot take away your use of the amenities unless they call you to a hearing where you can plead your case to the board of Directors. what method did the Board use to take away your amenities? Disable your fob? Demand you give someone your keys? What?

They also cannot fine you unless you're called to a hearing, etc.

If the HOA has a property manager, they might be able to help you.

If you can proved that the seller knew that the toilet was faulty, you might be able to get them to pay, but it would take evidence and time on your part too..

EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

RichardP13
You asked:

If they took your amenities, did they call you to a hearing?

>Yes they indeed did. I did go to the hearing and stated by case; urged HOA to work with my insurance; indirectly might have also given a pointer to sue the insurance or me as my insurance had indicated they will protect me in court and get me an attorney.

If you had insurance, your agent should have been working in conjunction with the HOA's insurance as a property below you was also damaged.

>Yes, I believe my insurance were was in touch with HOA directly.

You need legal advice, after the facts are borne out.
>I hear you. Any recommendation on a good attorney who can take my case?

MelissaP1
You asked:

I am a bit confused about the situation. Are you a renter or owner?
>I am the owner.

When you say "monthly bills" do you mean HOA dues?
>Yes.

Did they also repair your unit? or just the neighbor?
>They did not repaired mine nor the neighbor. Since this leak was on weekend, they made sure the structure of the unit was safe for which the plumber came and made sure everything is OK.

Did you not present the bill to your insurance?
>Yes. I did give the bills to insurance. they denied to repay it.

KerryL1
YOu asked:

Richard is right Eswami. In CA, the board cannot take away your use of the amenities unless they call you to a hearing where you can plead your case to the board of Directors. what method did the Board use to take away your amenities? Disable your fob? Demand you give someone your keys? What?
>We use this card to get to swimming pool, health center and such. THey deactivated my card.

Thank you all for your comments and feedback and such. I have read the CC&R and I do not find anything in there that suggests that my amenities can be taken away like this so thats why I am confused...may be I am not able to understand the CC&R correctly. I believe that HOA has to go with what is in the CC&R and cannot make up such rules and regulations by themselves. I specifically asked HOA which section in the CC&R did you apply to take away my amenities. I have not gotten a response from them. I have asked multiple times and no response. I feel if HOA is taking the amenities away, they need to say which section/page in CC&R is being invoked.

I am seriously looking for get an attorney or may be I am thinking I can go to the county court and appeal or do something to ensure HOA is not bullying around. Any suggestions ideas on how or what can I do?

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

More important than the amenities, the board thinks you are responsible to pay this money. If you are successful in getting your amenities restored, then they may pursue other tactics to get you to pay, and you may incur legal fees and other charges. Yes, you need an attorney. It may be enough for the attorney to write a letter to the board explaining how they are wrong (if they are wrong).

The real issue is whether you are responsible to pay for the damages.

It sounds like your insurance adjuster thinks you were not negligent, and therefore not liable for damages. What caused the leak? Were you careless or did you do anything to cause the leak?

The board may be thinking that you are liable for damages just because the leak originated in your unit (and your adjuster does not think that). Did your adjuster give his/her reasoning for denying the claim? No negligence? Did the board give reasoning for why they think you are liable? Did they say: because it started in your unit?

Do your documents give responsibility for damage that originates from a unit (most do not), or for insurance deductibles?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So far as I know, Eswami, you are right. In CA, boards cannot withhold amenities from Owners unless the governing documents say so. You mentioned that your looked in the CC&Rs, but in ours while it's there, it's in an odd place and hard to find. But we also have the same thing in our Bylaws so you might look there. Write to the board again and ask them where this is located. If not in your documents you are right. BUT, then what?

I can't offer any help. It does seem you'll want an HOA attorney to help you. The county court won't do you any good.

EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Can anyone recommend me an attorney in the California Bay Area...?

EswamiS (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

No recommendations?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Check the above rules, Eswami; we're not supposed to write the names of anything. It's possible if you write your email address someone will send you some info about the SF Bay area. I no longer live in that region.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

I would again check with my insurance company ... either they need to potentially pay or they should be the ones to fight with the HOA to pay. If you were the upstairs unit where the leak originated the first issue is was the leak located in area where owner is responsible or the HOA responsible? Another question is who has paid for downstairs neighbor damage or what does their insurance state? The two affected units could get together and see what each insurance company has stated.

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