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LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Hello HOA members,

I have a question that I hope someone here can help me with.

My HOA recently had our Annual Meeting at which time the Inspector (our newly hired Accountant) was to bring the unopened sealed ballots that arrived by mail to the meeting to combine with the ballots collected at the meeting. During the meeting and prior to the ballot session a board nominee and assigned board member walked around showing a spoiled ballot to some homeowners. Apparently the Inspector has been opening the ballots and passed this one on to the board member/nominee (she also recently hired this accountant).

It was soon made clear to those attending the Annual Meeting that the Accountant/Inspector would not be attending the Annual Meeting and neither would the ballots she collected. She sent a teenager to pick up the collected ballots at the meeting. Many homeowners were upset and confused about this change in procedure.

I have two issues here: 1) evidently the Accountant/Inspector was opening the ballots prior to the Annual Meeting at a time and place of her choosing, probably as she received them in the mail; and 2) the Accountant/Inspector gave a copy of an opened, unsealed ballot to an assigned board member/nominee.

There were 5 openings for the board. There were 6 nominees. (I was not running.) I called long-standing board members and past members with my concerns. They simply do not care and are having another meeting this week to seat the new board. We have been having great difficulties with board members and trust and confidence in our board has fallen drastically. This does little to regain trust but apparently is going to be overlooked by the "new" board.

Is this proper? Should these results be certified? Thank you!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Was it proper?

Without reading your governing documents, it's hard to say.
It certainly does raise the appearance of impropriety.

Should the results be certified?

Depends if it was an honest mistake or not. That will not be known without talking to the individuals involved.

Perhaps the best way to handle this (and minimize expense to the Association) is to come up with a lessons learned paper.
Perhaps a policy needs to be written concerning election procedures to help minimize such issues in the future.

Since you are not on the Board, there is little you can do except to ask questions, provide possible solutions and, if desired, submit drafts of policy resolutions for the new Board to consider.

Since it appears that the current Board is going to accept the results of the election, if you think that there were issues and the election should not be certified, you should obtain the services of an attorney and challenge the results in court. There is typically a time frame you can make such a challenge (and that varies by State).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lyn

If the mailed in ballots were counted and used, where is the big problem even if not done the way you expected? Are you accusing them of dishonesty? There were 6 people running for 5 spots so unless you care about the one person that did not make it I see no problem.

You say there has been trust problems well if 5 of the 6 were elected one was bound to lose so where is the trust problem? Are you suggesting an entirely new election be held?

LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you both for answering.

This appears to go against our Election Rules. Without going into a great deal of detail, two board members resigned earlier this year out of disgust, what was left was two troublemakers voting and our long-term and trusted board president.

"the ballots and proxies should be submitted to the inspector in sealed envelopes and should not be opened or tampered with prior to the time established during the meeting for the tabulation of the ballots/proxies. The counting and tabulation of votes should be done at the meeting in public view."
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
sorry left out "against". two board members voting against ...
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lyn

So OK, it appears the ballots/proxies were not counted at the time of the election in front of people. Slap on the wrists deserved and things done properly in the future. That said 5 of 6 were elected. Other than a minor rules violations, what is your issue? What do you want to do to make this right?

Is the real issue that you do not like who was elected to the BOD?

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
The "displaying" of the spoiled ballot might have happened to show how an incorrect vote gets NOT counted.

Perhaps there were witnesses there and you just don't know about it.

The "results" should have been given to the President, who would then make the announcement of the new board.

The Inspector needs to attend a board meeting and explain the process taken to count ballots, but don't hold your breath.

LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 12/19/2016 11:06 AM
The "displaying" of the spoiled ballot might have happened to show how an incorrect vote gets NOT counted.

Perhaps there were witnesses there and you just don't know about it.

The "results" should have been given to the President, who would then make the announcement of the new board.

The Inspector needs to attend a board meeting and explain the process taken to count ballots, but don't hold your breath.


Thank you for responding. The ballot was spoiled by profanity, HOs in attendance at the annual meeting quickly recognized who it was although it was not signed. The Annual Meeting was called specifically to count the ballots/votes -- many homeowners attended and were upset it did not happen.

What I am gathering here is that it is not a big deal.
Thank you for your comments.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
No time to thoughtfully reply, Lyn, but I do think it's a big deal since it's codified in your HOA's election rules/policy, assuming that document was crafted properly.

Also, is the public opening & tabulating method in NM state law?? It certainly is in CA!!
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/19/2016 1:41 PM
No time to thoughtfully reply, Lyn, but I do think it's a big deal since it's codified in your HOA's election rules/policy, assuming that document was crafted properly.

Also, is the public opening & tabulating method in NM state law?? It certainly is in CA!!

I did find CA law and read as much but I cannot find NM law regarding Elections Rules however it is in violation of our Election Rules for the ballots to be opened prior to the Annual Meeting this much I have determined from speaking with other board members, past and present. Thank you for taking the time to respond!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Lyn,

If you believe that the ballots were counted correctly, I would consider it a concern vs. a big deal.
However, if the issue is repeated, regardless of how the ballots are counted, I would consider it a very big deal.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lyn

As I have asked specific questions of you, why do you refuse to answer them?
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/19/2016 2:46 PM
Lyn

As I have asked specific questions of you, why do you refuse to answer them?

I am sorry John I will try to address your questions now.

1st post:
1. there was a time when I believed a new election was indicated but now I do not due to the trouble and/or expense. HOs are fed up and we may not reach a quorum again.
2. Yes there is a trust problem and I am trying not to be too specific until the election is certified and some of the issues resolved.

2nd post:
1. There were two troublemakers nominated. One was guaranteed to win. It did not make much difference to me which one did.

Which returns me to my original question where I was seeking advice as to whether this has happened elsewhere and what if anything was done about it.

I do not know if the rules were abandoned on purpose or out of ignorance. The Elections Inspector was not given permission to open the ballots early or on their own -- they did. Then did not show up at the annual meeting (probably due to having a box of opened ballots). We do not know if the results were shared with others and never will. But that is probably a moot point anyway as the results would probably be the same if a new election were held. An open and fair election would have gone a long way towards restoring confidence in the board. I suppose we can't have everything.

Thank you so much for your input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Along Tim's line of thought, perhaps you can help the Board with understanding and following your HOA's Election rules. Or you might suggest that you alone or with an ad hoc committee craft procedures to make sure the ballots are tabulated correctly (publicly) at your next Annual Meeting. that does mean that all Owners can watch the opening of the envelopes and the tabulations. It does NOT mean a few witnesses in a closed environment.

What size is your HOA? Are you on the board? What does "assigned board member" mean in line 4 of your first sentence waaaay above? If HO's came to this meeting to, in part, observe the tabulation I can definitely see why they were upset. It's hard to imagine that they know your election rules but that your Board does not!

But I agree that you should do nothing at this time for the reasons you stated. Opening & counting behind closed doors in secrecy instead of in "public" as your rules state, would be out & out illegal in CA HOAs.
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/20/2016 12:41 PM
Along Tim's line of thought, perhaps you can help the Board with understanding and following your HOA's Election rules. Or you might suggest that you alone or with an ad hoc committee craft procedures to make sure the ballots are tabulated correctly (publicly) at your next Annual Meeting. that does mean that all Owners can watch the opening of the envelopes and the tabulations. It does NOT mean a few witnesses in a closed environment.

What size is your HOA? Are you on the board? What does "assigned board member" mean in line 4 of your first sentence waaaay above? If HO's came to this meeting to, in part, observe the tabulation I can definitely see why they were upset. It's hard to imagine that they know your election rules but that your Board does not!

But I agree that you should do nothing at this time for the reasons you stated. Opening & counting behind closed doors in secrecy instead of in "public" as your rules state, would be out & out illegal in CA HOAs.

Thank you for your suggestions!

Earlier this year two board members resigned, mostly due to issues with new board members. We had an election which did not reach a quorum so nominees were "assigned" to the board until we could produce a successful election that could be certified. Of those five two more resigned due to infighting and around the same time our Management Co fired us due to difficult (new) board members. This left a board of three (again). This went from bad to worse.

No, I am not on the board and have never run for the board, in fact in all the years I have lived here our board has been above reproach.

Yes, I did find CA rules which leave no room for error. I plan to ask that our election rules be included with voting materials and/or in newsletters before elections. This should help clear up any confusion as to the procedures.

Thank you again I appreciate your help.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Perhaps, Lyn, you can find a few others who'd like your board to once again be above reproach or who, at least would try hard to adhere to your governing documents and state laws.

Often a management company (MC) can help a lot, but yours dropped you due to your unpleasant board, it seems. Do you think the board will hire another MC?

How many r units or detached homes are in your HOA?
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/20/2016 3:15 PM
Perhaps, Lyn, you can find a few others who'd like your board to once again be above reproach or who, at least would try hard to adhere to your governing documents and state laws.

Often a management company (MC) can help a lot, but yours dropped you due to your unpleasant board, it seems. Do you think the board will hire another MC?

How many r units or detached homes are in your HOA?

Kerry, thank you for your thoughtful suggestions and everyone that replied.

The new board was certified with no issues. This should go a long way in improving the morale within the HOA. I thank you all for your comments and suggestions. Happy Holidays to you all!
LynR (New Mexico)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/20/2016 3:15 PM
Perhaps, Lyn, you can find a few others who'd like your board to once again be above reproach or who, at least would try hard to adhere to your governing documents and state laws.

Often a management company (MC) can help a lot, but yours dropped you due to your unpleasant board, it seems. Do you think the board will hire another MC?

How many r units or detached homes are in your HOA?

In answer to your above question. Yes, it appears the board will hire a new management company. (100+ units or homes)

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