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BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I posted a couple of months ago that a neigbor in the cul de sac behind me regraded the ground, build an apporximate 48" block wall, and installed a gigantic "Rain Bow - monster playset" in the back area of his lot, but in front of and to the left of his driveway extending onto the common area, and directly in front of my backyard. The playset cost him approximately $15000, and the installation cost another $10000-12,000. We (Us and a few neighbors) complained to the HOA that the playset and the structure built is on common grounds, and that it needs to be removed. Additionally, it causes alot of noise, as the HO who has a couple of young children (6 & 4) also invites selected neighbors' kids to come and play on the playscape which is directly in front of my yard. The issues are multiple. The HOA sent out a generic letter, Dated June 5, to the residents, and a specific one to my neighbor asking everyone to correct any violations they have in the subdivision within 30 days. Originally the chairman of the HOA told us that our neighbors were in 6 feet into the common area, and that they had violated the bylaws, and will need to correct - but that it would take a long time to resolve. Members of the HOA also asked us not to go to the township and allow them to handle this issue. When the HO found out that the HOA is investigating, and is writing to them, they became very hostile towards my kids, by being mean, and telling them to stay away from them. We have a small playset ($400) in our backyard that my kids try to play on but at their age (3&4), they are being bullied and abused by the older children that play on the the neighbor's playset (that alone causes anxiety because I don't want my kids to be psychologically abused or have low self esteem because all the kids are nasty to them. So, on Saturday 7/7/07, my husband called the HOA chair, and asked him of the status...Here is what happened....

Well, my husband and I waited till the 30 days passed, and called the association this past weekend - only to find out that the HO is claiming that the contractor who installed the playset / playscape is a licensed, and insured contractor and that he went to the township, pulled the plats, and that the playset is on their property and that it is only about 6 to 12 inches on the common area and that the contractor is willing to provide a letter stating these facts. Therefore, the chairman of our HOA is stating that they are not going to follow this any further unless I can prove that the playset / playscape is in the common area... What is interesting is that the HOA did not even ask them to go ahead and provide this letter or any type of proof (plats, playscape drawings, etc..) that would show the neighbor's lot, and where the playscape and 48" retaining wall is in comparison to the common area. They just took the neighbor's word for it. I just feel like I'm being singled out here...

A few things are issues for us here.

1) Value of our home and marketability is affected - multiple people have told me that my house is beautiful but they would never buy it because although they have children that would be able to play on the playscape, it belongs to an individual and is not a public playground.

2) Noise level of the children playing in playscape which is directly facing my propery (not the homeowner). It lies in front of and shifted to the left of his driveway, and the nastiness these kids and parents are showing.

3) I was one of the first people to move in the sub, and have pictures of the property to indicate where the common area lines are. I believe that the HO is buying the contractor in providing such a document. By the way, the letter was never requested by the HOA. They just took the HO's word for it!

Can you please help me with this...There is what looks to be like a 48" block wall build around this play structure facing my house. I need to know how to approach this logically, most affordably, and WIN this battle...
ALL ASSISTANCE WILL BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

Thanks,
BonE.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BonE: If you really want to pursue this using the correct course of action, you first need to have the 'plat plan' showing the actual dimensions of common area, and, if indeed, this structure is infringing on the HOAs common ground.
I'm assuming the owner who installed this is not part of the HOA.

If you have 'pictures' of the property, that is not the same as the actual dimensions showing on the plan. If you have to go to the builder himself, or the municipality then do so and learn exactly what you are dealing with.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Bon, there should be survey stakes or markers which define boundary lines. If you can not find those there is a plat of the subdivision filed with the County Clerk and Recorder and also a small copy may be filed in your copy of the Declaration of CC&Rs. This can also be used to help determine the boundary of the common areas. Didn't your ACC need to approve the playground equipment and its' location prior to installation. None may be located within the common area (not even 1"). So they are still in violation based on the contractor's comment. The Board has failed to act and you can demand they investigate the violation you claim has occurred. It helps if you give them some proof to get their attention.

With regard to the neighbors children slighting your children all that could be done is talking to their parents. However, the noise, when sufficient, can be reported to the Board as a violation of the restrictions- either classified under either noise or nuisance.
BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Hi Roger,

Thanks for the response. These homes were built in 2003 and the stakes are long gone. However, I don't understand why the HOA is not asking for a drawings, or layouts indicating the size of the playscape in relations or as an overlap on the HO's plat. The HOA is leaving the burden of proof on me, and is not willing to pay for the surveyor stating that their budget does not allow for it. Also, telling us that we are the only neighbors complaining - when I mentioned that I knew of four other neighbors that have complained to the HOA board, the chair said that they did not give their name. I'm puzzled, does one voice (most impacted) not count. Even if the calls from the other neighbors were anonymous, why are they not considering them as voices against a violation? Do I need to start a petition? How should I word it, and what good would it do??? Pls advise. Thanks.

Bon
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
BonE:

I would also go to the Zoning Officer as well as your Code Enforcer to see if this playset violates any of their ordinances.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I hate to say it, but you may not have a case with the effecting of home value due to a playground being a factor. Many factors go into deciding why one doesn't buy a property or not. It's not just one factor. If it is, then you may be able to sell your "case". However, that factor would have to be more along the lines the house sits under a High-power line than it sits near an "entertainment center". Home sales are too subjective. One man's treasure is another man's eyesore.

In all my years of playing on a playground, I've NEVER had the Hillary Clinton vision of "It takes a Village". Kids are mean. They tease eachother. I've got plenty of emotional and physical scars from my "playground years". However, it's just "life". If I hadn't learned as a child how to play on a playground, I would NEVER make it through one day in a work place! You can't put your kids in a plastic bubble to protect them BUT you can put them on a leash. Kids eventually do learn to play with eachother. It's just good to make sure they don't kill eachother as they learn.

What is the real issue here? Is it because they neighbor crossed the line into the common area? (Which everyone owns a piece of) or is it because they don't allow all the children to play? I personally, think the homeowner left themselves open to liability. I wouldn't want to be a part of the issue. A few years from now the kids will grow up and want the area for parking and not for a playground. If anything, the playground will effect that homeowner's home resellability. You just have to suffer the effects of it. Eventually, I believe the playground will work out with everyone. It's just takes some time and the ability to learn when to get off the teter-totter.

Former HOA President
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
First of all, the "stakes" may be long gone, but the marker rods won't be. There are medallions and steel rods that also are used as "anchor" markings for surveys.

I'm also afraid that it doesn't really matter if the contractor "saw" the plats and is used to doing that sort of thing. His professional opinion counts for nothing up against a legitimate SURVEY.

The BOD absolutely need to commission a property survey of the common area, not just for the sake of the potential offending Home Owner who may or may not be infringing on common area, but so that the common area can officially be sited so that everyone knows what is common and what isn't. The steel rods are most likely just beneath the surface and the engineering firm that surveys will be able to pop those back out and re-stake if they need to.

We have 6 common areas throughout our subdivision. I'm not sure how large a space you're talking about there, but we had close to 5 acres surveyed for just over $300.00. A wise investment no matter how you look at it. Once it is done, no one will have to "guess" or try to "line sight" with comparing to a paper document.

I would contact the BOD and request that they not allow this to get swept under the rug. HOAs have lost property in the past due to lax BODs not following up on common area encroachment. We had someone place their white vinyl privacy fence 8 feet into our common area. She had the fence firm write a nice official looking letter that explained how they pulled the plats and assured us that they had not encroached.

After we went ahead and got an official survey, it was clear that she was not 6 inches, not 8 inches, not 12 inches, but EIGHT FEET into our common area. She had to have the fenced moved.

side note: cheap shot regarding Hillary Clinton's "it takes a village" since she was hardly referring to playgrounds.
BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thanks for the response MicheleD:

The problem is that the land has been dug / escavated probably an additional 3-4 feet and a retaining center block wall has been built around the playground in the deep area - as the grading was removed to a flat land. So, will the medallion markers still exist at this point? Thanks.

Bon
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
You could order a survey of just the common area lines you want to verify and pay it yourself. It doesn't sound right for you to have to pay, but may be the only way to resolve the issue. This should not cost much. Just call a few surveyors and see what they would charge. A few hundred dollars sounds like a small price if you are worried about your property value.

However, be careful once the survey is done. They normally just leave little flags in the ground, so you may want to take photos of flag locations. 'Someone' may move the flags after the survey. This is only so the when the Board walks the area, they will see the real markers. The real proof is the plat I mention below.

Also, be sure the surveyor gives you a new new survey plat clearly marking any encroaching structures. This is the real proof you need to have anything moved. Without a survey showing encroachment you really have no proof.

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PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BonE: you have received some good advice on the course you should take as far as getting the area professionally surveyed and take photos, etc.

I am curious, however, you have not mentioned the ARC committee at all in this situation. Have they approved this structure and is it in keeping with community guidelines?
BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Hi Paul,

I'm sorry I don't know what an ARC committee is!!! I've only spoken to the HOA, and my husband put in a generic call inquiring about township rules, etc to the township... BTW: Last night a HOA member whom I had left a voice mail message for over the weekend called back, and I had a conversation with him explaining my concerns again. Only thing I got, was that the association can not spend that kind of money chasing an issue that only concerns one resident, and that when the letter from the contractor, and any drawings or layouts are received they will be forwarded to me...Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Bon
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
BonE:

Your BOD member is confused. He/she would not be throwing money after something only "one" homeowner is concerned about. He/she would be fulfilling his/her responsibility to the integrity of the Association's assets.

It is the board's FIDUCIARY responsibility to protect the governing documents AND maintaining the integrity of the common area is pivotal in that regard.

NO BOARD has the right to ho-hum away any of the yardage that belongs IN DEED to the association. In most cases they can't even sell or deed it away if they wanted to. Many CC&Rs are written to prevent that. It might be in your best interest to review your Deed Restrictions thoroughly regarding anything it says about common area.

So a homeowner "homesteading" even a portion of the common area is unacceptable, regardless of the type of structure they stuck on it.

The medallions may not still be there exactly as installed when the lot plats, including the common area, was staked out, but OTHER markers will be. And surveyors use appropriate tools and measuring devices to accurately re-mark in cases where the medallion is gone. They can always put them back. Therefore, I would even suggest that you request how much it would cost to re-install a permanent marker again.

If you still feel strongly about this, I would urge you to find the money to get the survey conducted. Keep in mind that the BOARD is not the only entity that can protect the integrity of the HOA assets. As EACH resident is a member, EACH resident can bring forward enforcement on their own, if they feel it appropriate.

It is also very possible, if you truly believe the offending resident is that far into the common area, that they would be responsible for any costs you incurred in order to correct their infringement.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BonE:

The ARC refers to an ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE your assn. has set up to receive architectural requests for structures, outside changes to an owner's unit or owned property (but not common ground). The Committee is made up of volunteers whom the Board has chosen.

Your official documents, CC&Rs, should speak to a Committee such as this to oversee structural requests and to then present them to the Board for approval/denial. Usually guidelines are drawn up, according to the CC&Rs,
giving more detail to the unit owner as to what is allowed, and therefore what can be approved prior to beginning the 'work'.

BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Hi Paul -

No acutally, to my knowledge, the HO did not seek any approvals for this structure and playset addition. The HO association did mention that the HO should have submitted for approval prior to erecting the monster.

Bonnie
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BonE: Now, we may be getting to the root of the problem.

Important questions for you to learn the answer to:
- Is the unit owner with the added structure part of the Association
- Do you have an Architectural Review Committee in place to review requests
- Does the owner w/the structure have an approval from the Board to erect the structure; and if so, ask for permission to review the approval
- Is the present Board the same one in place when the structure was erected
- Do unit owners own any 'property' surrounding their unit or is the property considered common ground to all--Your official documents should speak directly to what each unit owner 'owns' as far as actual footage surrounding your unit

Consult with the Board directly to find answers on the above; your best course would be to put your questions in writing and ask for a written response.

BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Paul,

Let me give you some of the answers I have for your questions below, although I did not receive the answers in writing:

- Is the unit owner with the added structure part of the Association-(NO)
- Do you have an Architectural Review Committee in place to review requests - (I don't think so, I will check)
- Does the owner w/the structure have an approval from the Board to erect the structure; and if so, ask for permission to review the approval . (No he has no approval).
- Is the present Board the same one in place when the structure was erected. (Yes it is the same board).
- Do unit owners own any 'property' surrounding their unit or is the property considered common ground to all--Your official documents should speak directly to what each unit owner 'owns' as far as actual footage surrounding your unit. (Not all homeowners have the same number of footage around their houses as far as common area. What he has next to his house is much larger than what I might have).

Thanks,
BonE
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BonE: Your latest response gives more information to this situation than you had given previously.
Since the homeowner with the erected structure is NOT part of your community association, again, you need to know precisely if the area is infringing on the Association's common ground (which falls to the rear of your area). You cannot proceed until you know firsthand what ground you are speaking about, and who it belongs to, the 'neighbor' or the Association.

BonE (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Paul,

Let me correct myself. I mis understood the original question. The neighbor who erected the structure is part of my same subdivision and the same HO association. Sorry, I thought you were asking if he is on the board of the association when I responded no. MY Bad.

BonE

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