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VanessaM (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I live in a Florida HOA community. The Developer (***********) did not finish the last entrance in the last phase of our community. Our current B.O.D. has just given our Property Management company the authority to accept the $25k that ******** was offering with the condition of releasing them unconditionally on the WHOLE community from any further future action. We have issues with our drainage ponds. We are built on an orange grove. We have known houses in the community next to us that have had sink holes. Am I right to be concerned about this release of liabilities? Does the Board have the right to make a decision like this without a vote of our entire community?
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Why would you release them from all liability for doing something they should alreay be doing without further concessions? It would be like you telling your mortgage company that you will pay on time if they cut your loan balance in half! You already agreed to pay on time and I assume the developer already agreed to build the entrance?

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hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
PS - Please don't post company names on this site. We removed them from your original post.

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DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By hoatalk on 07/08/2007 6:24 PM
PS - Please don't post company names on this site. We removed them from your original post.

Just a question ... who is being protected by removing the name of the developer and why?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Posting names of individuals or names of companies isn't a good idea. We only hear one side of the story here. There's no proof the mentioned person is doing anything wrong. It would be considered slanderous to post. That could put this website in danger of being sued or removed. Plus, posting such information is dangerous to both individual or company. You don't know who may see a name and contact this person or company without them knowing their information was available online.

I was on another HOA site that often posted names of individuals, lawyers, and companies. One day, I posted something that upset someone. They took my name from my post and proceeded to post my home address and phone number without my knowledge or permission. This could have put me in extreme danger. I could have had this person contact me that had threatened me online in person. Luckily, I never post my real name on the internet. They posted the wrong information. The website could have been held liable if anything had happened and the posters possible witnesses. I no longer visit that website as it has proven itself to be threatening and post misinformation.

As far as the developer being released. It sounds like instead of doing the job, they are willing to pay the association $25K to do the job themselves. This could be a good thing. As the job may be done for $10K instead with modifications. That means the HOA could bank the extra money. If your HOA has had a bad history with the developer/builder, you may not want them to do the work anyways. This way your HOA can hire whoever they want and have control on what they want put there instead.

Former HOA President
VanessaM (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
HOATalk: Thanks for the reminder not to post names/companies. It never crossed my mind.

All the questions you pose are the exact same questions that us homeowners have. I think one reason is because the developer had to have a bond on our property that would probably last 20 years. He will get that bond back and it will open up that money to allow him to do other jobs that need bonds. The developer is definetaly making out some how some way. I just want to know can the board give the rights of all of us homeowners away? I know they run the day to day operations but do they have the right to make a decision like this without a 2/3 vote? They need a 2/3 vote to change our CC&R's. What is the difference when they are changing our agreement with the developer and given our rights to possibly sue in the future if something bad should happen? (I don't plan to be in this community longer than 6yrs but those who are planning to retire here..this could be a problem.) I am just concerned for the community as a whole & that the whole community does not know what's going on.
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 07/08/2007 7:48 PM
Posted By hoatalk on 07/08/2007 6:24 PM
PS - Please don't post company names on this site. We removed them from your original post.


Just a question ... who is being protected by removing the name of the developer and why?

MelissaP summed it up very well. Our website is not willing to take on the liability of posting company names here. Plus, in the case of complaints about companies it really adds no educational value to mention the name of the company since it's only one side of the story and the answers are meant to be generic anyway.

We also ask that people not post the full names of people as well and that's for liability and protection of our members, as Melissa also mentioned. Our posting rules lay all this out.

Best Regards,
HOATalk

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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you still builder controlled or in a transition period? The MC could still work for the Builder/developer. If that's the case, then they can "give away your rights" so to speak without majority vote. However, if the MC works for the HOA and it's been turned over already, then a majority vote of the board or homeowner's may be needed. It will depend on your documentation. Some decisions require board and some require general membership majority vote.

I would consult your CC&R's and find the contract with the MC. Your answer may lay in those two documents.

Former HOA President
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Vanessa a few questions, and comments....

First is the board entirely owners, or does the builder still have seats?

What does your governing documents state with regard to board decisions, and does it speak to "special" requirements for situations like this (i.e. special assessments require 2/3's majority votes, elections, etc)?

Has your board sought out legal counsel on this decision?

Has your board sought out professional engineers/auditors regarding this decision? If you are releasing the responsibility of the common area, or element, how will this impact upon the community? How will it impact upon the local municipality, with regards to "who" is then responsible for updating (and getting approvals) for the new design?

For the "future" work that the $25k would provide, is "time of the essence" for the community? In other words, if the design item would cost the builder $25k, then why not just build it, have it inspected, and then request for release of bond? What is it about this transaction that benefits the community, the builder, etc?

No one here is uniquely qualified to answer a "on the ground" question such as yours in your community, with regard to the builder/developer's intent, veracity, or business practices. There are good, bad, and ugly builder/developers out there. If you have done research on this builder/developer, and it points to something that just isn't right - take that under consideration. Absent unbiased third-party advice from professionals (engineers, auditors, etc), you just have no way of knowing whether or not this is advantageous for the communithy, or even for the matter the builder - it could well be an even agreement.

If all else fails, get an attorney involved - as I am absolutely POSITIVE that if you sign anything from the builder/developer - it will have been drafted by their attorney. You want any agreement that the board/community enters into - to properly reflect balance between the parties - that does not mean that one may not get more than the other, just that what YOUR community needs/wants, is secured and granted.

Last but not least, call the planning/zoning office for your jurisdiction. Ask them what impacts this "change" would mean for the community/builder/developer. Ask if there are any easements which you are unaware, or a "ROW" (right of way) or any other issue which could potential create an issue for the community if you release. Remember, the builder/developer may not be doing anything " un-toward," but regards, they are the "pro's" in this relationship, and the community is still learning. Better to have another "pro" take a look at the situation so that your community has the best advice available when the time comes to make a decision.

** if your board is fully staffed with owners, make sure that you have "DOL" (directors and officers liability insurance). The board is allowed to make mistakes, but for something of this level (assigning of rights for payments), I think that any reasonable person would expect that they would seek out some form of professional counsel prior to making their decision. Sometimes a gently "reminder" that their decisions may or may not be covered under "DOL" insurance carriers, will work wonders to get the board to seek additional information/resources prior to making a decision. Remember, this is not a "weapon" against board decisions, just a healthy reminder that they have fiduciary duties to the community, of which "care" is one.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VanessaM:
1) Consult your local municipality as to what plan (including drainage pond, etc.) have been agreed upon between them and the developer; also state the problems with unresolved grading issues. The developer can only recoup the bond he has with the municipality when the officials approve all that has been done according to 'plan' and is up to code. There is a normally a lengthy time for him to do this and he must 'redo' UNTIL all is up to code and approved by them.

2) The board should not release anyone from anything until the assn. is assured of point 1). Further, IMO, it would be the board's duty to report back to the residents the status with the local municipality. Once that is determined, you will be better able to decide if the developer's 'offer' is worthwhile or valid.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Vanessa:

Sometimes you have to make a business call on developer problems. To file a lawsuit against any developer for not doing A, B or C costs a lot of money also a lawsuit can take up to 2 1/2 years until it can go to court.

So the questions to ask are a) Will $25,000.00 cover all or most of the problems within our community. b) What amendities were filed on the recorded plat maps within the County? (Whatever he filed, he is obligated to install0. c) What items are enforceable through the County Engineer? e.g., drainage ditches.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I imagine the board has the authority to do this...however, i wouldn't release them from all liability for everything within the association, that is crazy to me.

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