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KennethD3 (Texas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
We live out in the county and have restrictions by our county that we cannot discharge firearms in a HOA Development property with less than 10 acres per lot.

Currently our CC&R's state:Section 26: No firearms of any caliber and no pellet guns or other guns using any type of propellant including gas or powder may be fired upon any lot, commons or street within this subdivision. However, hand pumped air guns shooting BB shot may be used within any regulations, if any, issued by the P.O.A.

The "Proposed" revision states: Section 26: No firearms of any caliber and no pellet guns or other guns using any type of propellant including gas or powder may be fired upon any lot, commons or street within this subdivision. However, hand pumped air guns shooting BB shot may be used within any regulations, if any, issued by the P.O.A. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Whitewater Springs Board of Directors, after adopting formal rules and regulations, may authorized the discharge of shotguns within the Whitewater Springs Subdivision for the sole purpose of controlling wild hog populations within the Subdivision.

With this, the board is proposing to replace the old Section 26 with the new one.

My concern is our county has a County regulation on HOA's in the area where a lot is less than 10 acres we cannot discharge firearms. BUT our County Commissioners are meeting Tuesday to pass a one year resolution that will waive this ruling to allow us to hunt the Hogs here. Our board seems to think we must amend the CC&R's to do that!

Personally I think that it is not required to make a new revision because the laws of Supremacy should be taken into count, thus the County law will supersede our current CC&R's.

Please let me know what you think.

Respectfully.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KennethD3 on 11/17/2016 9:20 AM
We live out in the county and have restrictions by our county that we cannot discharge firearms in a HOA Development property with less than 10 acres per lot.

Does your county regulations actually mention property in an association, or just generic lots less than 10 acres? The latter seems more likely than the former.

Quote:
Posted By KennethD3 on 11/17/2016 9:20 AM

Personally I think that it is not required to make a new revision because the laws of Supremacy should be taken into count, thus the County law will supersede our current CC&R's.

I think you misunderstand this "supremacy" theory. Your HOA can have rules and laws more strict than the county or state, and those HOA rules still apply. For example zoning; if the county allows three story houses, but the HOA limits them to two, you must follow the HOA rules. If the county is silent on the color palette of houses but the HOA is against blue, again you must follow the stricter HOA rules.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Ken

An HOA cannot override a law. In the case of the hog hunting, the county is willing to give your association a one year exemption thus I say there is no need for an amendment that would override the county's 10 acre restriction.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Certainly they can. This board is rife with examples where the law allows something but the HOA rules are more stringent and must be followed, fences and parking are common examples.
KennethD3 (Texas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
The county does not specify OUR Specif HOA, just all HOA's

KennethD3 (Texas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
In this example on the site here someone gave this:

Covenants cannot override laws/restriction but can be tougher. Classic examples:

1. Local law says fences can be 8ft tall. HOA says fences no taller than 4ft. HOA wins.

2. Local law says fences can be no taller than 4ft. HOA says fences can be 6ft tall. HOA loses.

Which I can follow and makes sense.

In our case though the county is trying to say it is ok for a year and the HOA is saying no it isn't that to me is saying that the HOA is trying to be more restrictive than the county laws.

Example would also be SB1070 in Arizona where the state wanted stronger "Complimenting" regulations to border protection and LOST to the Feds.....because the state was trying to make stronger laws than the feds....
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KennethD3 on 11/17/2016 11:01 AM
In this example on the site here someone gave this:

Covenants cannot override laws/restriction but can be tougher. Classic examples:

1. Local law says fences can be 8ft tall. HOA says fences no taller than 4ft. HOA wins.

2. Local law says fences can be no taller than 4ft. HOA says fences can be 6ft tall. HOA loses.


In both fence example (1) and the firearm rule, the HOA is being more restrictive. The HOA wins

Don't include the AZ-USA Fed fight over the border, that one isn't applicable because it is fulll of probable cause, racial profiling, Supremacy Clause and other Constitutional issues are at play.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 11/17/2016 10:21 AM
Certainly they can. This board is rife with examples where the law allows something but the HOA rules are more stringent and must be followed, fences and parking are common examples.

My bad and I know better.. Allow me to clarify. An HOA can have tougher rules. City says overnight parking allowed. HOA owner's agree to no overnight parking by accepting Covenants that say no overnight.

City says fences can be 8ft tall. HOA says no more than 4ft tall. HOA wins.

City says no fences over 4ft tall. HOA says 6ft fences allowed. HOA loses.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Kenneth,

Even though my home is full of firearms I would strongly oppose firing guns anywhere around homes. Bullets do not always go where intended nor do they stop where intended. Allowing shotguns is an even bigger mistake as each shell contains numerous projectiles that disperse over distance. This is just a bad idea. Your association will likely end up with a dead kid shot by a drunk homeowner who thought that thing in the distance was a feral hog. The proposed amendment has nothing that would require the shooter to have a hunting license or other permit that requires some demonstration of training before blasting away.

I am curious about what you describe as "feral hogs." In Arizona we have a native animal called the Javalina. While some refer to them as pigs, they are actually related to wild boars and razorback hogs. Javalinas usually are fearful of humans and when people are injured by one it is usually because someone is trying feed one. A feral hog would be a domesticated swine that has reverted to the wild and I understand that they are a problem in certain parts of the country.

As others have said, your current CC&R's prohibit discharging firearms and will continue to do so even if the county amends their ordinance.

I think your association needs to look into other ways to deal with the hogs.

RS8 (Arizona)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Feral Hogs are nothing like AZ Javalina. Hogs are an issue and need to go for sure, however so do some of our Javelina

I'm sure you would have to change your CCR's as they govern in this case as others have said. The real question is why do you want folks shooting rifles in the neighborhood? We are on 5 -10 Arce parcels and I sure don't want people firing off rifles randomly and missing. You may want to consider an open archery season instead if you want to arm everyone.

Personally, I'd put a plan together to take out the pigs. Perhaps an organized bait and hunt in a controlled environment and back drop. To have everyone armed with rifles and popping pigs at-will is just not the answer and someone is going to get hurt.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> In both fence example (1) and the firearm rule, the HOA is being more restrictive. The HOA wins

Yes. UNLESS the county rule includes language like "notwithstanding any more restrictive HOA rules..."

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KennethD3 : . . The "Proposed" revision states ' Notwithstanding the foregoing, the XXX Board of Directors, after adopting formal rules and regulations, may authorized ( SIC ) the discharge of shotguns . . . for the sole purpose of controlling wild hog populations within the Subdivision. . . "

Kenneth D3 TX : The typo/grammatical error suggests that the proposed additional wording has NOT been reviewed by a lawyer or paralegal. So also the somewhat ambiguous reference to 'wild hogs'. This alone suggests some troubling times ahead if there is injury, death or property damage. Nor does this look like a 2nd Amendment firearm ownership issue.

Respectfully, if there are wild boars - genuinely dangerous - or something else, the only prudent reference should be to licensed, insured wildlife control professionals hired as to common elements if so authorized by your CCRs. So also if its farm or domestic animals being exposed to contagion from wildlife.

( Our voluntary HOA's extensive shared & private lands are subject to bears & wolves, but the bigger risk would be misuse of firearms & consequent understandable litigation and/or criminal charges. . .)

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Currently our CC&R's state:........


Your BOD is correct .... CCRs must be amended as they would be stricter than the 'county code'.

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