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ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
Our Board of Directors only holds two meetings during the year, six months apart. Some issues came up that some homeowners felt needed to be brought up to the Board and discussed openly with other residents--things we felt couldn't wait for a regular meeting. Organizers went through the standard process of getting signatures and submitting a petition to the Board, which included the purpose of the meeting and proposed discussion items.

The meeting discussion was a little strained, but the goals were accomplished in a civil manner. However, after the meeting, each of the Board members targeted the person who helped gather signatures for the petition and sent him lengthy, horrible, accusing, hate-filled, threatening emails. All residents were copied on these emails, and I was absolutely stunned by their content. It was like cyber-bullying.

Please tell me this is not common, acceptable behavior for Board members. I hope you can tell me this is not a standard method of communication that is recommended in any training classes they might attend showing them how to "deal" with members. It doesn't matter what the issues were or the details surrounding them, no one deserves this type of response from people who are in leadership positions. Needless to say, it has created an unhealthy atmosphere in our community that no one wants to go near. It's definitely not an atmosphere where people want to come together.

Is this hate common in HOAs in general and just something to be expected?? I've seen enough hate recently to last me a lifetime.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Arva,

I expect that you mean general membership meetings (where the whole membership is invited) are held twice a year (vs Board meetings).

Is the behavior you describe acceptable? No, of course not (and I believe you know that).

Is the behavior you describe common? Sometimes, yes. We are all human and typically become defensive when challenged. Some individuals can quickly get past this defensiveness and some will carry it for years. If your entire Board is acting this way, the only way to stop it is gather support and remove them or simply not reelect them. This will also require others who are willing to do the job they are doing (perhaps you will volunteer).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Arva,

The actions of the board members, where each sent out a vitriolic email to the homeowner who spearheaded holding a meeting and then copied all other homeowners, is beyond the pale. Not only does this demoralize the homeowner who exercised his legal rights but it also serves to deter all other homeowners from future participation in the affairs of your association.

I do not know what remedies are available in Washington. If you were in Arizona I would suggest that the targeted homeowner apply for an Injunction To Prohibit Harassment pursuant to ARS 12-1809. There is no fee to apply or to have it served. The injunction is usually issued upon request and the respondent may seek a hearing. I would suggest checking with the clerk of your local Justice Court (or equivalent) to see if similar relief is available.
Text of Arizona statute is at http://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=http://www.azleg.gov/ars/12/01809.htm

Under no circumstance would I allow these board members to behave like you have described. This is essentially a power-grab by the incumbents to silence all who may even think about speaking out against them. There is no reason for adults to allow themselves to be treated this way. Your board is a serious problem that needs to be addressed both internally with a recall election and externally with some sort of legal action to prevent a recurrence of this attack on the membership for exercising their lawful rights.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I echo what Larry said.

Harassment of members who legitimately complain and follow procedures is common at many HOAs. The harassment may be actionable in court if it invades privacy; puts the recipient in a false light before others; slanders the recipient; is intended to inflict distress; and so on. Many states also have statutes detailing when harassment is a criminal offense.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Like time I also think It's NOT acceptable behavior by your Board.

Did every board member send a letter? How many director are there? How many people received them? Are you one of them?

How many board (not membership) meetings do they hold a year? Are they required to be open meetings a that members h'owners may attend?

Both Tim & Larry provide solutions. You need a new Board. This can be done cheaply but with a great deal of hard, knowledgeable work with a recall, or strong, honest campaigning at annual election time.

ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thanks for this. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of residents willing to participate in any HOA issues, so it would be almost impossible to gather enough support for a recall. I know I don't have the time nor the energy to spend on that huge task. Additionally, no one wants the job. We're stuck with this horrible Board until re-election time.
ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
Forgot to answer the other questions....
Four Directors.
Meetings: One Annual Meeting and one Budget Meeting where all members can attend.
They did not send letters, but sent emails to all residents including me.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Arva, Board meetings are not open to homeowners? And that's the law in your state, i.e., board meetings can be closed to members (h'ownrs)?

How many board members do your bylaws say you must have?

Unless you're willing to follow Larry's advice, it seems like your option is to prepare for the annual meeting and round up some Owners who are willing to serve on the Board.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I would need to see the Email sent. Maybe it is just tough love. Maybe the criticism of the owner is warranted.
ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
Fair point, John. Maybe the Board has had to deal with additional things I'm unaware of. However, for any conflict resolution, especially between neighbors you see every day, I would expect leaders to exercise a more professional way to handle it. Their responses seemed pretty harsh and my respect for them has gone downhill (not that it matters).
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/16/2016 9:07 AM
So, Arva, Board meetings are not open to homeowners? And that's the law in your state, i.e., board meetings can be closed to members (h'ownrs)?


No Washington is an open meetings state.

RCW 64.38.035

Quote:
(4) Except as provided in this subsection, all meetings of the board of directors shall be open for observation by all owners of record and their authorized agents. The board of directors shall keep minutes of all actions taken by the board, which shall be available to all owners. Upon the affirmative vote in open meeting to assemble in closed session, the board of directors may convene in closed executive session to consider personnel matters; consult with legal counsel or consider communications with legal counsel; and discuss likely or pending litigation, matters involving possible violations of the governing documents of the association, and matters involving the possible liability of an owner to the association. The motion shall state specifically the purpose for the closed session. Reference to the motion and the stated purpose for the closed session shall be included in the minutes. The board of directors shall restrict the consideration of matters during the closed portions of meetings only to those purposes specifically exempted and stated in the motion. No motion, or other action adopted, passed, or agreed to in closed session may become effective unless the board of directors, following the closed session, reconvenes in open meeting and votes in the open meeting on such motion, or other action which is reasonably identified. The requirements of this subsection shall not require the disclosure of information in violation of law or which is otherwise exempt from disclosure.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
When I left being President the new board was made up of the very people I was protecting the rest of the neighborhood from. They were some of the most selfish short sided people. Also did not help they were manipulated by a con-man. The very one I had stopped from taking advantage of the HOA and neighbors. (The reason he wanted me out).

My HOA became a rental property and I volunteered to be only a board member to help in the transition. The new board as expected became very venomous people and even spent all the HOA money before knowing the budget. One even threatened me and tried to attack me physically. They went door to door telling lies about me. I had tried to stop an illegal special assessment they were misrepresenting. I went so far to hire a lawyer. He wrote them a letter forcing them to take the proper necessary vote for the project.

Anyways as you can imagine, this board did it's best to disgrace me. It was shameful. However, after they lied about the special assessment details, me, and increased their term so could not be removed... People woke up. I even had the new President calling me and apologizing. Multiple members approached me informing me of being wrong. They told me some of the vicious unfounded lies that had been told about me. Some were really funny or sad...

Sometimes you have to expose the real ugliness of people to see their ugly. I feel like others will also have the same view as you on this situation. You can't tell people this is how these people are. You have to let them experience it themselves. I think in time as long as this person they are "attacking" doesn't go to their level, will succeed. I didn't let their lies and misinformation bring me to their level. I held my own. Eventually, it was all exposed and people got more involved in the HOA to monitor them.

Former HOA President
ChuckR3
Posts: 4
Posted:
MarkM: Thanks so much for answering the question I missed. I hope that helped, Kerry.

Mellisa: Thank you so much for that information. You need a medal. I'm just dumbfounded that grown adults do these horrible things in the name of an HOA or a Board. I was mortified to see how our Board went on the attack. I will not vote for them ever again.
ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
It really was me, ArvaF, who responded. The system must have picked up the wrong login.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The point is, Arva, how is it that you only attend 2 meetings a year when all board meetings are supposed to be open to homeowners? Most bylaws say that there there need to be x # of Board meetings a year? Usually it's four.

I think you have a new PM. Myabe that person can explain your bylaws & state law to you.

Now I'm really confused. Are Arva & Chuck the same person?

Glad you checked in Mark!
ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
I'm also confused on both counts: meetings and Chuck. System glitch?

I can't find anything in our By Laws or state law that requires a certain number of meetings except this: RCW 64.38.035
Association meetings—Notice—Board of directors.
(1) A meeting of the association must be held at least once each year.

So far we've held the Turnover Meeting, the Member Meeting, and a Board (Budget)/Special Meeting. I don't have the minutes from the Board meeting yet, but I thought I heard that the Board plans to hold two meetings per year--Member Meeting and the Board (Budget) Meeting.

From our By Laws:
Meetings of the members of the Association shall be held at such reasonable place convenient to the members as may be designated in the notice of the meeting.

Meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held at such place as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors or other persons calling the meeting.

Annual meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held within 60 days following the adjournment of the annual meetings of the members.

Special Meetings of the Board of Directors for any purpose or purposes may be called at any time by the President or by any two Directors.

I'm also checking with our Property Management company for clarification in case I've missed something. Hope this helps.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Arva/Chuck,

From all your recent posts, it seems like you have a lot going on within your HOA, and one that is newly-formed as you indicated in one of your posts. Also seems like on several fronts, you are in disagreement/conflict with your Board.

Your posts include ones in regard to: hate-filled emails being sent to an owner, denial of an architectural request, asking for copies of management contracts. There must be quite a bit more to the overall story than the bits and pieces you are relaying to the forum here.

In regard to the hate-filled emails, obviously something like that is out of line. Your Board could certainly be a group of hate-filled, self-serving autocrats who are intentionally keeping owners in the dark. Or they could be a group of people trying their best only to have their every move questioned and second-guessed, causing them to become frustrated and beat down. Responding in that manner though is not appropriate for a board member to an owner, let alone from one human being to another.

I also think you may have unrealistic expectations from your Board Members. They are merely other owners in your neighborhood (your neighbors) who likely have no previous experience as a Board Member. I wouldn't expect them to be magnificent leaders, but merely people who have volunteered to try and help run the association's business. While it would be great if they had superior leadership skills, that's not a requirement of them and it shouldn't be an expectation from owners either.

My advice is to attempt to work more with the Board and see how you can help rather than questioning actions/decisions, requesting documentation, repeatedly contacting Board/Management, etc. It sounds like they are newly-formed, so perhaps they need help and support while they figure things out.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Until I see the letter sent, I would refrain from calling it hate mail. Maybe it did call a spade a spade and it upset somes of the spades.

We have an owner or two that are PIA's at meetings and are always spreading false rumors. They have been chided in letters from the BOD and I assume they might well call it hate mail.

ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
All good perspectives. Thanks for the input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The reason that most Boards seem to be required to meet 4X year is that in some states, CA, for instance, the Board must meet, by statute, that often to review the financial docs. Those meetings must be open for Owners (members) to attend.

You've cited your Bylaw requirements about special mtgs of the Board. But do they say nothing about regular meetings"? Assuming you're incorporated, WA corporations codes may have some requirement about numbers of regular meeting per year. The reason I'm following up on this topic is that I haven't noticed posters here having no regular meeting of the board stated in their Bylaws. But perhaps your HOA is quite small. How many homes/units are there?

You also mentioned there are 4 directors, which is an unusual number for bylaws to require. What, exactly, do yours say about required number of directors?

Along with JohnC & ND, it doe seem as though it might be best for everyone if you try to find a way to work WITH your board. Maybe offer to start a committee or edit a newsletter if you have the time & interest
ArvaF
Posts: 21
Posted:
I'm not sure all the information in my earlier post about meetings came across. I listed what our By Laws state about member meetings, Board meetings, and Special meetings. Here it is again if it didn't come through before or was confusing.

From our By Laws:
*Meetings of the members of the Association shall be held at such reasonable place convenient to the members as may be designated in the notice of the meeting.

*Meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held at such place as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors or other persons calling the meeting.

*Annual meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held within 60 days following the adjournment of the annual meetings of the members.

*Special Meetings of the Board of Directors for any purpose or purposes may be called at any time by the President or by any two Directors.

Our By Laws state we can elect between three and five directors/officers. Hope this is helpful.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArvaF on 11/17/2016 9:12 AM
I'm not sure all the information in my earlier post about meetings came across. I listed what our By Laws state about member meetings, Board meetings, and Special meetings. Here it is again if it didn't come through before or was confusing.

From our By Laws:
*Meetings of the members of the Association shall be held at such reasonable place convenient to the members as may be designated in the notice of the meeting.

You make no reference to requiring a meeting notice. Most ByLaws call for at least a 30 day notice.

*Meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held at such place as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors or other persons calling the meeting.

See below reference to Special Meetings.

*Annual meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held within 60 days following the adjournment of the annual meetings of the members.

Thus there need be only one BOD Meeting per year. The Annual Meeting is not considered a BOD Meeting. It is considered an owners meeting.

*Special Meetings of the Board of Directors for any purpose or purposes may be called at any time by the President or by any two Directors.

Thus the BOD can call a BOD Meeting anytime they want to. Many ByLaws say how owner's can call for Special Meetings but generally such are limited to the specific reason the meeting was called for. They cannot be a "general bytching" session. You reference this above as called by other people so check on that.

As an aside, in SC the BOD does not have to notify owners of a BOD Meeting.

Our By Laws state we can elect between three and five directors/officers. Hope this is helpful.


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