SharonS24 (Missouri)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Do HOA covenants supersede a county's code if the HOA covenant is more restrictive? Our HOA is located in Jefferson County Missouri.
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Started by SharonS24 • 15 replies • 1358 views
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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It depends. How about an example?
Our municipality allows realtor signs in windows up to certain dimensions. Our CC&Rs do not allow any. We must defer in this case to our muni statutes.
Our municipality allows realtor signs in windows up to certain dimensions. Our CC&Rs do not allow any. We must defer in this case to our muni statutes.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sharon
Yes they can as people agreed to the tougher restrictions when buying into the HOA. Common fought over ones concern parking, landscaping, and fences.
Covenants cannot override laws/restriction but can be tougher. Classic examples:
1. Local law says fences can be 8ft tall. HOA says fences no taller than 4ft. HOA wins.
2. Local law says fences can be no taller than 4ft. HOA says fences can be 6ft tall. HOA loses.
Yes they can as people agreed to the tougher restrictions when buying into the HOA. Common fought over ones concern parking, landscaping, and fences.
Covenants cannot override laws/restriction but can be tougher. Classic examples:
1. Local law says fences can be 8ft tall. HOA says fences no taller than 4ft. HOA wins.
2. Local law says fences can be no taller than 4ft. HOA says fences can be 6ft tall. HOA loses.
SharonS24 (Missouri)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Issue is over trash cans. Covenants require cans be outside of a building only on pick up day. Trustees are telling me that in our county that is not required. They do not understand the concept of most restrictive. The covenant exists because of the number of critters in our area.
SharonS24 (Missouri)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Local law says trash cans can stand anywhere. Our covenants state they must be in a building, garage, until trash day. This is because of the critters. Trustees do not understand the concept of most restrictive.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If I understand this correctly,
Your Association has covenants that say trash cans must be stored in the garage.
Someone complained to the Board that this is in violation of the county code as the code has no such restriction.
Your Board agrees with the complainant and now does not enforce the covenant.
Is that correct?
Are you on the Board?
If I am correct, and you are not on the Board, urge the Board to obtain a legal opinion if there is a conflict between the covenant and applicable laws. This is likely the only way the Board will be convinced.
Your Association has covenants that say trash cans must be stored in the garage.
Someone complained to the Board that this is in violation of the county code as the code has no such restriction.
Your Board agrees with the complainant and now does not enforce the covenant.
Is that correct?
Are you on the Board?
If I am correct, and you are not on the Board, urge the Board to obtain a legal opinion if there is a conflict between the covenant and applicable laws. This is likely the only way the Board will be convinced.
SharonS24 (Missouri)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
I used to be on the board. I am the complainant. Recently, I paid out $300 to trap a skunk which has repeated circled three homes and finally dug under my deck. One of those homes leaves the trash cans out 24/7. The exterminator said as long as cans were out, we would probably have a problem. We caught two possums for the same reason. HOA trustees have repeatedly said they would not enforce the covenant. We also have an outbreak of distemper,so I was also requesting the enforcement to protect the pets in the area. But this is a stubborn board of 3 women. Thank you for your insight.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You may want to spend some money and have an attorney write a letter on your behalf to the Board.
Have the attorney cite case law about the requirement of a Board to enforce covenants.
Additionally, you have the authority to enforce covenants.
This would be done through the courts.
You won't make friends, but you would have the issue resolved.
I have to ask (and suggest), have you discussed the issue with your neighbor?
If you haven't, this may be the quickest way to resolve the issue.
Have the attorney cite case law about the requirement of a Board to enforce covenants.
Additionally, you have the authority to enforce covenants.
This would be done through the courts.
You won't make friends, but you would have the issue resolved.
I have to ask (and suggest), have you discussed the issue with your neighbor?
If you haven't, this may be the quickest way to resolve the issue.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posts: 814
Posted:
COVENANTS covering trash can hours?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
BTW - really, your municipality has no trash can garbage pickup hours? That doesn't sound right. Where do you live?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
BTW - really, your municipality has no trash can garbage pickup hours? That doesn't sound right. Where do you live?
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Our garbage restrictions are in the CCRs, I don't see why they would be in the bylaws. They restrict days more than hours, I don't have time to check right now but I think they say cans can't be out before 6pm the evening before trash pickup and have to be taken in that day.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 11/07/2016 5:41 AM
COVENANTS covering trash can hours?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
COVENANTS covering trash can hours?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
A common enough mistake, they are often in the same massive document
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 11/07/2016 5:41 AM
COVENANTS covering trash can hours?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
COVENANTS covering trash can hours?
That sounds like a bylaws issue.
Sue,
Based on that statement, I expect that you live in a condominium complex, where bylaws have many of the restrictions.
In an HOA, the Bylaws should contain nothing more then how the Association is to be ran.
Restrictions for the home should be within the CC&Rs.
Restrictions/Rules for common areas should be within policy resolutions.
It's not uncommon for CC&Rs to specify a restriction about trash. Ours has it in two locations (if one were to read it that way) within the CC&Rs.
One, is very specific: No material, refuse or any container for same shall be stored in the front of the home, on the front patio or stoop at any time. All trash and garbage shall be placed in proper trash receptacles.
The second is broader and talks about personal property: No personal property, when not in use, shall be permitted to remain outside the enclosed rear area of the premises.
We then have a policy resolution to clarify when the trash receptacles may be placed onto the common area for pickup and what time they must be removed by.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posts: 814
Posted:
Tim
Yes, I understand that WHERE the trash cans must be stored would be in the covenants.
WHEN the cans are placed out for garbage pickup would be in the bylaws, or as yours state, in a policy.
Yes, I understand that WHERE the trash cans must be stored would be in the covenants.
WHEN the cans are placed out for garbage pickup would be in the bylaws, or as yours state, in a policy.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our HOA is a high rise condo and the section about trash is in our covenants.
Our Bylaws, though we are a condo HOA, are a separate governing document and have nothing in them about rules concerning the behavior of residents whether it's trash container behavior, noise nuisances, what residents may place in our corridors (nothing!), etc. All of those are in our Rules and Regulations. Our Rules & Regs essentially elaborate on our covenants.
Our Bylaws, and all I've read about on this site, are about the structure of of governing the HOA, e.g, election procedures, titles of required officers; number of directors, recall elections, Board and Members meetings; etc. They also may contain the names of records that Owners are entitled to inspect.
So I agree with Douglas & Tim on this topic. I also agree with Mark that there's confusion. but to me, the confusion's source is that people think that byLAWs are the same as rules.
Our Bylaws, though we are a condo HOA, are a separate governing document and have nothing in them about rules concerning the behavior of residents whether it's trash container behavior, noise nuisances, what residents may place in our corridors (nothing!), etc. All of those are in our Rules and Regulations. Our Rules & Regs essentially elaborate on our covenants.
Our Bylaws, and all I've read about on this site, are about the structure of of governing the HOA, e.g, election procedures, titles of required officers; number of directors, recall elections, Board and Members meetings; etc. They also may contain the names of records that Owners are entitled to inspect.
So I agree with Douglas & Tim on this topic. I also agree with Mark that there's confusion. but to me, the confusion's source is that people think that byLAWs are the same as rules.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sharon
The bottom line is your BOD is not enforcing. You have two choices. Take them to court and get a court order for them to force them to enforce or work to elect new BOD Members who will enforce.
The bottom line is your BOD is not enforcing. You have two choices. Take them to court and get a court order for them to force them to enforce or work to elect new BOD Members who will enforce.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/07/2016 11:59 AM
Sharon
The bottom line is your BOD is not enforcing. You have two choices. Take them to court and get a court order for them to force them to enforce or work to elect new BOD Members who will enforce.
Sharon
The bottom line is your BOD is not enforcing. You have two choices. Take them to court and get a court order for them to force them to enforce or work to elect new BOD Members who will enforce.
Additional choices:
Enforce the covenant yourself through the courts
talk to the neighbors directly and see if the issue can be resolved
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