Advice needed... New homeowner board

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

We are a newly voted homeowner board of five. One member was very upset that he didn't get the President position. So much so he has been on a personal campaign getting his friends (neighbors) to call in complaints about the president to the management company. He's also had a neighbor of the presiding president not only send a bogus certified letter regarding a fence that was there when she closed on her house, but also accused said president of sending away a contractor (wasn't home at the time) having his wife be with the neighbor when they confronted the president in the driveway. Which turned into that neighbor eventually calling the police and using a call for service report as a police report to send to the management company. Currently, that board member is going door to door to get signatures telling people that he feels the vote wasn't fair saying not everyone knew there even was a vote, that they didn't know who the candidates were, (he was a floor nominee), that he questioned some proxies that were given (verified by the management company), him questioning the 'transparency' of the board and basically telling everyone that he has visited that the signatures will make another vote come about. He has one other board member siding with him going to certain houses as well. He's been recorded at one house... The treasurer has made it clear that they feel they will always be the minority, which isn't necessarily true but. And the treasurer is refusing to do what the president has asked of her position.. Advice?? And yes, the said president is me...

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

First of all, congratulations on being elected and thank you for serving.

The individual making complaints to the MC apparently has no idea how an HOA is governed. The MC works for the Board, not the other way around. Therefore, I don't know what they expect to gain making those complaints.

My suggestions, have a meeting and simply state that you will do your job to the best of your abilities. That you have no more authority then anyone else on the Board regarding decisions, as decisions are made by the Board as a whole. Just as you will do your job, you expect everyone else to do their job. If that is a problem, ask for help.

Then hold them accountable. If things aren't done, ask why not and when can the Board (always reference the Board and not you) expect to see results. If things still are not done, make a motion to remove them from Office (explaining that they will still be a Director, but not have additional responsibilities). Note: only do that last bit if you already have someone willing to take over the job.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/24/2016 7:56 PM
First of all, congratulations on being elected and thank you for serving.

The individual making complaints to the MC apparently has no idea how an HOA is governed. The MC works for the Board, not the other way around. Therefore, I don't know what they expect to gain making those complaints.

My suggestions, have a meeting and simply state that you will do your job to the best of your abilities. That you have no more authority then anyone else on the Board regarding decisions, as decisions are made by the Board as a whole. Just as you will do your job, you expect everyone else to do their job. If that is a problem, ask for help.

Then hold them accountable. If things aren't done, ask why not and when can the Board (always reference the Board and not you) expect to see results. If things still are not done, make a motion to remove them from Office (explaining that they will still be a Director, but not have additional responsibilities). Note: only do that last bit if you already have someone willing to take over the job.

I understand how it works and know the CCRs and bylaws. Those two seem to think that the MC govern the HOA..
The board may be contemplating removing the treasurer from that office as she has stated that she will not do what was asked of her for what she claims is a witch hunt. But with that said, does that make her a "member at large" like the fifth member of the board?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Remember that most HOA Boards are made up of individuals wearing two hats and holding two positions.

The Board is made up of Directors.
Officers also attend Board meetings to provide reports and answer questions.

Therefore, that individual wouldn't be anything more or less then a Director (no special title).

Expecting that the Treasurer would be replaced with an individual who is not a Director, the minutes would identify the individuals as follows:

In attendance were KP-Director/President; XX-Director/VP; YY-Director/Secretary; ZZ-Director, abc-Treasurer

Note: only Directors would be counted toward a quorum.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

I echo what Tim said. My HOA's governing documents permit the treasurer to be a member who is a non-director. I am curious about whether KP3's and other people's governing documents say the treasurer must also be a director.

I think anyone insisting she or he be the HOA President is not Presidential material and maybe not director material. Election of the President is one of many board decisions. If a person cannot abide by the majority's vote, she or he should consider resigning.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I concur with what Tim and AugustinD said.

How have the majority of homeowners responded to this guy? He might have his friends calling the management company - as Tim said, that's a waste of time because they work for the board, but if the majority hasn’t responded because they know all this is sour grapes on his part, you won’t have much to worry about. The best you can do for now is continue to do your job to the best of your ability and follow your governing documents. Unfortunately, this is part of board membership and being a community leader – you will always have people trying to undermine whatever you do, not because you’re wrong but because they insist on having their own way.

This can be quite annoying to deal with, but since you’re a new board, the man may quiet down after a month or two when he realizes he isn’t getting anywhere. But if his actions, as well as that of the treasurer are starting to get in the way of the board’s ability to conduct association business, it may be time for an executive session. I always prefer executive sessions be few and far between, but Board member discipline can be grounds for one.

At this meeting, start with the treasurer’s refusal to perform her duties. Your documents probably state what those duties are and if you’ve asked her to do things in that regard and she’s refused, for whatever reason, you may need to ask her point blank if she wants the job. If so, she should be reminded that performing those duties isn’t the same as voting on Association issues – if she can’t or doesn’t feel she can serve as treasurer, she should step down. Let her have her say and then the rest of the board can have theirs. Remember, voting someone in or out of an officer spot should be done in an open meeting, so if things come to that, you’ll have to save that for the next meeting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

I agree with the advice you've received so far. Somewhat relevant to your situation though is for us to understand how you came to decide your Officer positions.

You indicated that you are a newly voted Board of 5. I assume that all 5 are newly-elected (meaning none of your were previously on the Board) and that from among these 5, you have assigned Officer positions.

As I think Tim tried to point out, you have a Board and then you have Officers (Pres, VP, Secretary, Treasurer). A lot of times, the Board Members are also Officers, but that's not always a requirement and it could be different for different Officer positions. In many cases, Officers are permitted to be non-Board Members. And a single person could hold multiple Officer positions too (although there may be some caveats as to which Officer positions could be simultaneously held). Check your documents for your requirements.

Assuming that Officers were selected from among the 5 Board Members, how did you arrive at who would be Pres, VP, Sec, Treasurer? This would have been a Board decision. So if you arrived at a decision that the majority of the Board agreed with, then simply put, that is the decision.

If this person doesn't like the decision, then they can bring it up at the next Board Meeting for discussion and potential re-vote/re-decision. If a majority of the Board do not agree with doing a re-vote, then this Board Member is SOL.

Their options at that point are to continue in the role that has been decided for them or resign. Again, if they are not performing in their designated Officer position, then someone else has to be willing to take on those duties in order for them to be accomplished.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

What did you ask the treasurer to do? Why would that be a witch hunt?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In our HOA, Augustin, only the president & VP must be directors.

With others, how DID the board select officers????

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/24/2016 9:13 PM
Remember that most HOA Boards are made up of individuals wearing two hats and holding two positions.

The Board is made up of Directors.
Officers also attend Board meetings to provide reports and answer questions.

Therefore, that individual wouldn't be anything more or less then a Director (no special title).

Expecting that the Treasurer would be replaced with an individual who is not a Director, the minutes would identify the individuals as follows:

In attendance were KP-Director/President; XX-Director/VP; YY-Director/Secretary; ZZ-Director, abc-Treasurer

Note: only Directors would be counted toward a quorum.

Our bylaws say there must be at least three and no more than five directors who must be members.. We elected five to the board and then the board elected the officer positions.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/24/2016 7:56 PM
First of all, congratulations on being elected and thank you for serving.

Thank you for saying that!

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/25/2016 8:31 AM
I echo what Tim said. My HOA's governing documents permit the treasurer to be a member who is a non-director. I am curious about whether KP3's and other people's governing documents say the treasurer must also be a director.

I think anyone insisting she or he be the HOA President is not Presidential material and maybe not director material. Election of the President is one of many board decisions. If a person cannot abide by the majority's vote, she or he should consider resigning.

I couldn't agree more. He's making it a personal issue and it isn't. The bylaws say that the directors must be members. The president and secretary can only hold one office but the VP can also serve as treasurer if need be..

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

The question is, KP, must officers be directors??

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

It's actually been since June and since his other tactics haven't worked, he's resorted to this petition. He's a nice enough guy (or was to me at least). I'm not sure the majority of the homeowners even know his issue about the president position. He's merely stating there isn't board transparency,stating that not everyone knew there was even a vote. That no one knew the candidates (he was a floor nomination) and some other things. One homeowner recorded him while at their house. He's basically slandering the current board.. And they are only going to certain houses for signatures.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/25/2016 2:13 PM
The question is, KP, must officers be directors??

Yes.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeffT2 on 10/25/2016 11:47 AM
What did you ask the treasurer to do? Why would that be a witch hunt?

Since we were left in a financial hole by the resigning board, I asked her to request 18 months of bank statements and check copies. She only rented 6 months and two of those had issues that she never inquired about. So when I inquired, she went on a rant that you wouldn't believe!!

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 10/25/2016 11:27 AM
I agree with the advice you've received so far. Somewhat relevant to your situation though is for us to understand how you came to decide your Officer positions.

You indicated that you are a newly voted Board of 5. I assume that all 5 are newly-elected (meaning none of your were previously on the Board) and that from among these 5, you have assigned Officer positions.

As I think Tim tried to point out, you have a Board and then you have Officers (Pres, VP, Secretary, Treasurer). A lot of times, the Board Members are also Officers, but that's not always a requirement and it could be different for different Officer positions. In many cases, Officers are permitted to be non-Board Members. And a single person could hold multiple Officer positions too (although there may be some caveats as to which Officer positions could be simultaneously held). Check your documents for your requirements.

Assuming that Officers were selected from among the 5 Board Members, how did you arrive at who would be Pres, VP, Sec, Treasurer? This would have been a Board decision. So if you arrived at a decision that the majority of the Board agreed with, then simply put, that is the decision.

If this person doesn't like the decision, then they can bring it up at the next Board Meeting for discussion and potential re-vote/re-decision. If a majority of the Board do not agree with doing a re-vote, then this Board Member is SOL.

Their options at that point are to continue in the role that has been decided for them or resign. Again, if they are not performing in their designated Officer position, then someone else has to be willing to take on those duties in order for them to be accomplished.

Very much aware of the governing docs. Members voted the board members, then the board chose positions. Only the president was wanted by two so the board voted and majority ruled. He also made it clear that he would be against anything the president chose or voted for..

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

This board member is deceiving the community by stating to some the petition is for the removal of the whole board, and to others stating it's a board member. Not revealing which board member. I don't know how this is being received as no one has spoken about it to me personally. This member lives right next door so it makes every day living a bit awkward...

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

KP3

Typically a petition does not amount to a pee hole in a snowbank. Your docs contain a method to remove BOD Members (including the entire BOD) and unless those procedures are being followed, all else is smoke and mirrors.

Typically the recall starts with a call for a Special Meeting where the purpose of the Special Meeting must be clearly specified (it cannot be a bytching session) such as removing John Doe from the BOD and replacing him with Jane Smith. Could also be removing A, B, C, D and E, replacing them with F, G, H, I, and J.

Until proper procedure is followed, ignore it.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/26/2016 4:40 PM
KP3

Typically a petition does not amount to a pee hole in a snowbank. Your docs contain a method to remove BOD Members (including the entire BOD) and unless those procedures are being followed, all else is smoke and mirrors.

Typically the recall starts with a call for a Special Meeting where the purpose of the Special Meeting must be clearly specified (it cannot be a bytching session) such as removing John Doe from the BOD and replacing him with Jane Smith. Could also be removing A, B, C, D and E, replacing them with F, G, H, I, and J.

Until proper procedure is followed, ignore it.

I have been ignoring it. But him getting everyone on the block to ignore me is a little much. I have no idea what he has told them whether it has been board only info or just his opinion. Either way, it's making it an awkward living arrangement..

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Can you and the other directors meet in executive session with him and vote to instruct him to cease & desist with his destructive behavior?

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

Perhaps you asked a volunteer treasurer to do what a paid auditor would do.

Do you have to answer every barking dog? This guy's actions have NO power. Stop reacting to his verbal threats and gossip.

Hunker down at the meetings. Stay focused. Start from today and do a good job and get control of those meetings.

All the other stuff is fluff and should not distract the board from conducting business.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 10/27/2016 7:43 AM
Perhaps you asked a volunteer treasurer to do what a paid auditor would do.

Do you have to answer every barking dog? This guy's actions have NO power. Stop reacting to his verbal threats and gossip.

Hunker down at the meetings. Stay focused. Start from today and do a good job and get control of those meetings.

All the other stuff is fluff and should not distract the board from conducting business.

Well said. Especially putting him in his place if he speaks out at inappropriate times during a meeting. Call him on it. If he continues threaten to end the meeting and hope others attending the meeting will get on him.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/26/2016 6:41 PM
Can you and the other directors meet in executive session with him and vote to instruct him to cease & desist with his destructive behavior?

I'm on the verge of getting the management company to send him a letter for this behavior to have it on record..

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 10/27/2016 7:43 AM
Perhaps you asked a volunteer treasurer to do what a paid auditor would do.

Do you have to answer every barking dog? This guy's actions have NO power. Stop reacting to his verbal threats and gossip.

Hunker down at the meetings. Stay focused. Start from today and do a good job and get control of those meetings.

All the other stuff is fluff and should not distract the board from conducting business.

I'm not sure there's been an audit that's why I asked for so much. I wanted to see how the prior board allowed the funds to be distributed considering the financial mess we've inherited. As for the rest of your post.... THANK YOU. I think that's what I needed to hear. We are all first time homeowner board members and I just want to do my duties the best I can..

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/27/2016 8:37 AM

Posted By SueW6 on 10/27/2016 7:43 AM
Perhaps you asked a volunteer treasurer to do what a paid auditor would do.

Do you have to answer every barking dog? This guy's actions have NO power. Stop reacting to his verbal threats and gossip.

Hunker down at the meetings. Stay focused. Start from today and do a good job and get control of those meetings.

All the other stuff is fluff and should not distract the board from conducting business.

Well said. Especially putting him in his place if he speaks out at inappropriate times during a meeting. Call him on it. If he continues threaten to end the meeting and hope others attending the meeting will get on him.

He's not done this at a meeting. Yet. I'm sure he will try at the upcoming scheduled meeting. Or perhaps he will get another homeowner to do it for him.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

KP wrote: "I'm on the verge of getting the management company to send him a letter for this behavior to have it on record." How does the MC have any authority over this director?

I don't see how this is an issue for mgt. to deal with. It is the Board that should discipline its own. Do you not have any support form the other 3 directors?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KP3 on 10/27/2016 8:51 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/27/2016 8:37 AM

Posted By SueW6 on 10/27/2016 7:43 AM
Perhaps you asked a volunteer treasurer to do what a paid auditor would do.

Do you have to answer every barking dog? This guy's actions have NO power. Stop reacting to his verbal threats and gossip.

Hunker down at the meetings. Stay focused. Start from today and do a good job and get control of those meetings.

All the other stuff is fluff and should not distract the board from conducting business.

Well said. Especially putting him in his place if he speaks out at inappropriate times during a meeting. Call him on it. If he continues threaten to end the meeting and hope others attending the meeting will get on him.

He's not done this at a meeting. Yet. I'm sure he will try at the upcoming scheduled meeting. Or perhaps he will get another homeowner to do it for him.

Well, if he does, this is where you'll need to man up (or woman up) and stand your ground. As long as this guy thinks he can intimidate you or push you to the point where you'll lose your mind and do something crazy, he'll keep coming or try to get other people to do it for him.

Earlier in this thread, I asked how other people were reacting to the guy's nonsense (not his friends, the others). If he's done all this so far and you're still president and no one's calling for your head via a recall, it's a matter of waiting him out. Sooner or later, he'll give up or - people will get tired of him and either stick up for you or just tune him out. He needs to have a majority to get rid of you, so if he can't get them or someone else mans up (or woman) and tell him in front of everyone to shut the hell up, then you can keep on doing what's necessary.

But if they don't, YOU need to decide right now if you're willing to weather the storm or wilt (and believe me, people are watching closely to see what you'll do). The man's a bully and we all know that ultimately the only way to deal with them is to stand up to them - it's not as fun when you're yapping about someone else and instead of getting everyone's applause, they look at you like you have a bunch of screws loose.

I don't know what else we can tell you - run the meeting according to parliamentary procedure and your documents. If you have a resident forum where the man's friends will get up and run their mouth, let them - up to a point. Board meetings are, after all, a business meeting and at some point, you need to act like the presiding officer and move the agenda along.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/27/2016 11:03 AM
KP wrote: "I'm on the verge of getting the management company to send him a letter for this behavior to have it on record." How does the MC have any authority over this director?

I don't see how this is an issue for mgt. to deal with. It is the Board that should discipline its own. Do you not have any support form the other 3 directors?

Kerry,
I do have the support of two of the other four. The treasurer is the only one on 'his side'. We will deal with it if it disrupts the upcoming meeting.. The MC would only be sending him a letter that his actions can be used to remove him 'for cause'.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Personally, I think the rest of the BOARD, not the property manager should send the letter, with all of you signing it (of course the malcontent and treasurer won't, but that's ok). Cite specific examples of his behavior and throw in a few words about fiduciary duty (undermining the board because he wasn't appointed president is an example of that) and then tell him he can be removed or censured for cause. For that part, you may want to quote the appropriate verbiage from your governing documents.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Well, if he does, this is where you'll need to man up (or woman up) and stand your ground. As long as this guy thinks he can intimidate you or push you to the point where you'll lose your mind and do something crazy, he'll keep coming or try to get other people to do it for him.

Earlier in this thread, I asked how other people were reacting to the guy's nonsense (not his friends, the others). If he's done all this so far and you're still president and no one's calling for your head via a recall, it's a matter of waiting him out. Sooner or later, he'll give up or - people will get tired of him and either stick up for you or just tune him out. He needs to have a majority to get rid of you, so if he can't get them or someone else mans up (or woman) and tell him in front of everyone to shut the hell up, then you can keep on doing what's necessary.

But if they don't, YOU need to decide right now if you're willing to weather the storm or wilt (and believe me, people are watching closely to see what you'll do). The man's a bully and we all know that ultimately the only way to deal with them is to stand up to them - it's not as fun when you're yapping about someone else and instead of getting everyone's applause, they look at you like you have a bunch of screws loose.

I don't know what else we can tell you - run the meeting according to parliamentary procedure and your documents. If you have a resident forum where the man's friends will get up and run their mouth, let them - up to a point. Board meetings are, after all, a business meeting and at some point, you need to act like the presiding officer and move the agenda along.

He's the only one that I know of that has a problem with the board.. No one has said anything to me about it. And I have weathered him so far and have no intention of quitting. I just wish he didn't live next door! I will "woman up" but don't want to be rude about it..

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

Get your agenda in order!!

Allow a structured time for non board members to speak. Usually at the beginning of the meeting. All speakers need to be recognized by the president (who is leading the meeting) - .

Usually, a time limit is used for anyone wanting to speak on non-agenda items. Limit the time to 3 - 5 minutes.

Get a gavel and use it if the speaker get out of control.

Feel free to go into Executive Session in order to get business done is someone is disrupting the meeting.

Last resort: have a police officer at the meeting.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 10/27/2016 1:15 PM
Personally, I think the rest of the BOARD, not the property manager should send the letter, with all of you signing it (of course the malcontent and treasurer won't, but that's ok). Cite specific examples of his behavior and throw in a few words about fiduciary duty (undermining the board because he wasn't appointed president is an example of that) and then tell him he can be removed or censured for cause. For that part, you may want to quote the appropriate verbiage from your governing documents.

Thank you Sheila. That's what the MC was going to do. They have the letterhead.. The treasurer was participating in the 'petition' recruiting and she has given out information that was only discussed between board members so she will end up with one as well...

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

KP wrote: "The MC would only be sending him a letter that his actions can be used to remove him 'for cause'." This is not clear. What would the MC means by saying the jerk can be removed "with cause."? Generally, if a director is removed it's by vote of the Ones if he was voted j in, or votes by the board if was appointed.

Sheila points out other things you can do like censure him for undermining board decisions. You have a 3-2 majority on the Board opposed to his behavior. DO something in Ex. Sess. to sanction him. It is NOT the MC's job.

I also strongly recommend you gt a nice Code of Ethics that all directors sign. Your MC probably has one.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/27/2016 2:32 PM
KP wrote: "The MC would only be sending him a letter that his actions can be used to remove him 'for cause'." This is not clear. What would the MC means by saying the jerk can be removed "with cause."? Generally, if a director is removed it's by vote of the Ones if he was voted j in, or votes by the board if was appointed.

Sheila points out other things you can do like censure him for undermining board decisions. You have a 3-2 majority on the Board opposed to his behavior. DO something in Ex. Sess. to sanction him. It is NOT the MC's job.

I also strongly recommend you gt a nice Code of Ethics that all directors sign. Your MC probably has one.

I agree. It is not the MC's job. The BOD has to grow a "set" and take him head on.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

All points well taken.. Thanks to all of you. Where do I find a gavel?

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KP3 on 10/25/2016 2:18 PM

Posted By JeffT2 on 10/25/2016 11:47 AM
What did you ask the treasurer to do? Why would that be a witch hunt?

Since we were left in a financial hole by the resigning board, I asked her to request 18 months of bank statements and check copies. She only rented 6 months and two of those had issues that she never inquired about. So when I inquired, she went on a rant that you wouldn't believe!!

As president, you can go to the bank to become one of the bank signatories and get the statements yourself.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

As president, you can go to the bank to become one of the bank signatories and get the statements yourself.

What credentials would I need? They have also recently changed banks...

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KP3 on 10/27/2016 4:58 PM

As president, you can go to the bank to become one of the bank signatories and get the statements yourself.

What credentials would I need? They have also recently changed banks...

How did the treasurer get the six months of statements? You should be able to get them the same way. Does "They" mean the management company switched banks? If the MC is in charge of the bank accounts, then ask the MC, otherwise, ask the bank. Typically, you would need minutes from the annual meeting, or letterhead. Simply explain to the bank what you want and see what they require. This is a good opportunity for the board to understand and have control of your accounts.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeffT2 on 10/27/2016 5:09 PM

Posted By KP3 on 10/27/2016 4:58 PM

As president, you can go to the bank to become one of the bank signatories and get the statements yourself.

What credentials would I need? They have also recently changed banks...

How did the treasurer get the six months of statements? You should be able to get them the same way. Does "They" mean the management company switched banks? If the MC is in charge of the bank accounts, then ask the MC, otherwise, ask the bank. Typically, you would need minutes from the annual meeting, or letterhead. Simply explain to the bank what you want and see what they require. This is a good opportunity for the board to understand and have control of your accounts.

The treasurer asked the MC for the docs but only asked for six of the 18 months I requested she ask for. And remember I said this was a new homeowner board. We aren't fully built out yet but the declarant appointed resigned and we had vote a homeowner board (June). We are all very new to this which is why I've posted here in search of information and guidance. I have learned a lot from all of you and will continue learning!

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

At the last annual meeting, there should have been presented to the members a current year P/L, and a Balance Sheet listing the balances of all accounts.

Compare this to the previous year.

What "statements" do you need?

What is your concern?

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 10/28/2016 2:15 PM
At the last annual meeting, there should have been presented to the members a current year P/L, and a Balance Sheet listing the balances of all accounts.

Compare this to the previous year.

What "statements" do you need?

What is your concern?

There hasn't been. Only a 'financial summary'. We were given a P&L at the first one in 2013 (that's when we moved here) And the website only gives the previous year information. We inherited a mess and I'm trying to get a handle on it to try and clean it up.. I'd like to see the statements so that I can try and figure out ways to cut costs and benefit the community.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/25/2016 8:31 AM
I echo what Tim said. My HOA's governing documents permit the treasurer to be a member who is a non-director. I am curious about whether KP3's and other people's governing documents say the treasurer must also be a director.

I think anyone insisting she or he be the HOA President is not Presidential material and maybe not director material. Election of the President is one of many board decisions. If a person cannot abide by the majority's vote, she or he should consider resigning.

I agree. If a person can not abide by the decisions of the Board that person is not a good person to have on the board.
I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to be President. When I first got on the Board I was terrified that I might some day have to be President. That day came in 2014. No one else was willing to take the position.

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

KP#

The information you want may be in a budget report that gives a Year To Date comparison.

for example, three columns listing:

2015 actual landscaping costs 2016 budgeted 2016 year to date expenditures

Those three figures may help you.

Most computerized accounting can formulate a budget and YTD expenditure comparison.

Ask for this kind of report.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

I think the info I want to know is how & where the dues have been spent. Our declarant has been under investigation and the prior appointed board resigned which is why we are a homeowner board with 400+ more lots to develop. I don't know if a reserve study has ever been done much less an audit. You would think that considering the financial predicament that the HOA is in the treasurer would want to know this as well...

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

KP#

Are you saying you are still under Declarant control?

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/04/2016 7:36 PM
KP#

Are you saying you are still under Declarant control?

Actually no. The declarant was under investigation for allegations of a misconduct rumor spread by a hedge fund operator who made a ton of money because of it. Nothing was found inappropriate but the damage has been done. However, we have a builder that owns the lots still to be developed which IS majority vote.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KP3 on 11/05/2016 12:20 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/04/2016 7:36 PM
KP#

Are you saying you are still under Declarant control?

Actually no. The declarant was under investigation for allegations of a misconduct rumor spread by a hedge fund operator who made a ton of money because of it. Nothing was found inappropriate but the damage has been done. However, we have a builder that owns the lots still to be developed which IS majority vote.

KP3

This might be splitting hairs but it seems to me the new builder is now the new Declarant and like it or not, the one in control.

KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/05/2016 3:37 PM

Posted By KP3 on 11/05/2016 12:20 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/04/2016 7:36 PM
KP#

Are you saying you are still under Declarant control?

Actually no. The declarant was under investigation for allegations of a misconduct rumor spread by a hedge fund operator who made a ton of money because of it. Nothing was found inappropriate but the damage has been done. However, we have a builder that owns the lots still to be developed which IS majority vote.

KP3

This might be splitting hairs but it seems to me the new builder is now the new Declarant and like it or not, the one in control.

This I know! They are class A votes and not class B but still they outweigh the current owners as far as votes go..

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KP3 on 10/27/2016 . . . I'm on the verge of getting the management company to send him a letter for this behavior to have it on record..

KP3 TX : Respectfully what you provided at best can be only part of the story, but of course could be exactly valid. Only you can know just how valid.

You might consider a professional mediator or some sort of ADR counsel to try to internally address the Board's level of toxicity. Maybe some of the beefs ARE valid, but at least it's worth remembering that the Directors are frail humans functioning in an imperfect world. About even considering using 'management' to intervene to restore your view of Directoral mutual respect & shared governance, respectfully let that idea burst into flames . . .