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Seeking: Florida HOAs with leasing restrictions

Started by GenoS • 22 replies • 3127 views

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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Does anyone know of any HOAs in Florida that have leasing restrictions imposed by their declarations? I've searched extensively through the official records of several Florida counties and haven't found any. I'm looking for specific language that I can show to others by way of example.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thanks, Tim. I have seen and read all of those (and more) in the last couple of weeks. What I'm looking for is concrete examples of HOA CC&Rs that contain such provisions. Condominum declarations with renting and leasing restrictions are plentiful, but for FS 720 homeowners associations I'm having no luck.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Message sent, Allison. Thanks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Probably don't see them because they can't legally exist... You can put all the rental restrictions you want in your rules... Doesn't make it legal or enforceable...
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,

Every time this issue comes up you post something saying that such restrictions are not legal.
You have been provided (via replies to those postings) documentation to prove your position is not accurate, yet you continue to repeat the same inaccurate message.

Again, here are court cases that addressed amendments that had rental restrictions:

Duffy v. SUNBURST FARMS EAST MUT. WATER AZ 1979

Woodside Village Condominium HOA, Inc. v. Jahren FL 2002

VIRGIL ADAMS v. KIMBERLEY ONE TOWNHOUSE
OWNER’S ASSOCIATION, INC ID 2015

THE
PRESERVE AT FORREST CROSSING TOWNHOME ASSOCIATION, INC. v. MARSHA DEVAUGHN and KEENE PATTERSON TN 2012

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/24/2016 9:15 PM
Probably don't see them because they can't legally exist... You can put all the rental restrictions you want in your rules... Doesn't make it legal or enforceable...

Melissa, with all due respect, the Supreme Court of the State of Florida says otherwise.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
And your going to enforce the rental restrictions how? You can write all the rules you want, but what you going to do to make sure they are followed? Fines? Can't lien or foreclose... So what is the purpose of having rule one can't enforce but sounds great on paper??
Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/25/2016 7:50 AM
And your going to enforce the rental restrictions how? You can write all the rules you want, but what you going to do to make sure they are followed? Fines? Can't lien or foreclose... So what is the purpose of having rule one can't enforce but sounds great on paper??

You first suggest that such restrictions are illegal and then you pivot to a question about the practicality of enforcement. Non sequitur.

I agree that enforcement poses certain challenges. We'll institute a fining schedule for violations of the leasing restrictions. My understanding is that fines for owners in violation can be substantially larger than those for other "petty violations" since the owner's sole reason for violating the restrictions is financially motivated. We're a small community and nobody here moves in or out without everybody being aware of it overnight.

Allison kindly pointed me to an actual HOA declaration that was amended 8 years ago to restrict rentals and leasing. As far as I know it has not been challenged and with the 5 year statute of limitations it likely never will be. There's nothing illegal about it. I'm just looking for real-world examples at the moment.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/25/2016 7:50 AM
And your going to enforce the rental restrictions how? You can write all the rules you want, but what you going to do to make sure they are followed? Fines? Can't lien or foreclose... So what is the purpose of having rule one can't enforce but sounds great on paper??

Melissa,

Each State has different laws (and you know this).

You might not be able to lien or foreclose on fines in Alabama. However, you can in other States.
Additionally, as my links to court cases indicate, the Association has the option of enforcement through the courts.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Faines, if hefty enough to make Owners think twice, work very well in my HOA. In addition, we can pull Ownrs rights to use some pretty nice amenities by deactivation their fobs to the gym and to the pool area. In addition, our disk gate officer will not permit the unit's guests to use our Visitor parking are (cry nice in our urban setting).

I agree with others, Melissa, let go of this one!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sorry people but what damage does rental do to a HOA? The court has to see actual damages (monetary) before the court will uphold the restrictions. Fines do NOT count as "damages". They are PUNITIVE charges. The court can only make one "Whole". So unlike not paying your dues which does do monetary damage to the HOA, the court may not do much against those who rent against the rules.

So yes you may go to court, but the court is going to tell the HOA "Prove your damages/case". Well rentals don't necessarily effect home VALUES. They effect home ATTRACTIVENESS. The HOA would have to prove an actual loss of income or other damages as the result of rental. The real damage does not happen to the HOA who is a 3rd party. The real damage is to the owner who is renting out the property.

Have to run to work... but please explain what damage a HOA suffers from rental other than the homes look bad deterring people from purchasing? How you going to even prove that?
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,

Again, you are incorrect.
Again, the court cases I provided links to prove that you are incorrect.

One can simply ask the court to issue an injunction to uphold the terms of the contract (CC&Rs) vs. seeking monetary damages.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 10/24/2016 11:28 AM
Does anyone know of any HOAs in Florida that have leasing restrictions imposed by their declarations? I've searched extensively through the official records of several Florida counties and haven't found any. I'm looking for specific language that I can show to others by way of example.

Within our DCC&R, we say that rentals/leasing can only occur with parents of the owner - or children of the owner. Very interesting subject.

oljim, in texas
Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our Covenants say no rentals during the 1st year of ownership.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Let me expand on HOA rentals... What real damage does a rental cause an HOA? The reality of what damage a rentals cause an HOA is NOT diminished home values. It is on certain loan packages offerings and refinance rates. FHA and other government backed loan packages do have rental restrictions limits. Your HOA exceeds those limits, then they will no longer offer those loan options or higher rates upon refinancing the home you do own.

You all may argue with me about my stance on HOA's not allowed rental restrictions in their CC&R's. Again it's NOT that I don't want them or think they are a good idea. I am all for rental restrictions... It's just reality trumps what believe I want...

Rental restrictions are more with the mortgage/banks to put into place. They are to ask when they lend "Is this going to be your primary residences?". If it is not, then think the bank/mortgage company should take a gander at the rental rate in that HOA before approving or allowing it's use as rental.

The biggest issue people think about rentals is what damages renters cause the property and HOA. Unfortunately, this lays on the feet of the owner to control. It's their property. It's NOT the HOA's. The HOA needs to hold the owner's feet to the rules when it comes to conditions/rules violations.

The answer to fix the rental issue isn't to write in rental restrictions. The solution is to REQUIRE that ALL lease agreements include that ALL renters MUST obey the rules of the HOA. The owner should turn over a copy of them to the renter. If this clause exists in ALL lease agreements it gives more power to ALL the parties involved. The HOA can tell the owner about the violations to fix. The owner then can fix them or address them with the tenant. The tenant doesn't obey/fix the issue, then the owner can site violation of the lease to evict. This then takes out the Tenant's rights factor that can allow a renter to stay up to a year or more in a property without paying a dime. Something neither the HOA or owner can violate.
Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/26/2016 8:45 AM
Let me expand on HOA rentals... What real damage does a rental cause an HOA? The reality of what damage a rentals cause an HOA is NOT diminished home values. It is on certain loan packages offerings and refinance rates. FHA and other government backed loan packages do have rental restrictions limits. Your HOA exceeds those limits, then they will no longer offer those loan options or higher rates upon refinancing the home you do own.

That is one of our biggest concern. The other is the experience of another nearby HOA we know of through friends where investors and absentee landlords have come to own 35 of the 72 homes there. The homeowners who live there have been trying to get certain amendments passed to their documents and they simply cannot get the supermajority number of votes they need for passage because of the offsite owners. You could argue it's their own fault because they didn't pay attention to what was going on. Along with financing difficulties, that's the exact situation we want to avoid. Bad behavior by tenants is not even on our radar.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,

You have gone from claiming such restrictions are illegal and unenforceable, to impractical enforcement because the courts can't help and monetary penalties can't be foreclosed on to claiming restrictions are for mortgage companies to simply asking the question "What real damage does a rental cause an HOA?"

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think, Melissa, that you might want to start a new thread on your real topic: what real harm do rentals cause? I think it's ag old topic for debate. but not on this thread.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/26/2016 3:52 PM
I think, Melissa, that you might want to start a new thread on your real topic: what real harm do rentals cause? I think it's ag old topic for debate. but not on this thread.

Excellent idea Kerry. Thanks!

oljim, in texas
Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
NelsonC (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Hi Allison. Would you still happen to have examples of the lease restrictions? If so, can you send my way? Thanks.

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