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NancyS20 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We are in the process of amending our 16 year old document and Colorado has changed the requirements for a super majority to cap the maximum number of votes needed to no more than 67% and no less than 51%. As a board we are proposing the lower number of 51% but we have an owner who feels like that does not offer enough protection to the community from change. Can anyone succinctly lay out the pros and cons of lower or higher voter approval percentages? Thanks so much for any input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Can you supply us with the CO verbiage that gives the Board the right to set the % approval needed?
NancyS20 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
38-33.3-217. Amendment of declaration. (1) (a) (I) Except as otherwise provided in

subparagraphs (II) and (III) of this paragraph (a), the declaration, including the plats and maps, may

be amended only by the affirmative vote or agreement of unit owners of units to which more than

fifty percent of the votes in the association are allocated or any larger percentage, not to exceed sixty-
seven percent, that the declaration specifies.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Personally I believe the Covenants is a critical document and I for one believe in needing 2/3rds to change.

I agree with 51% for Bylaws.
NancyS20 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Was doing a little research on majorities vs. supermajorities, not specific to HOAs:
So what's the downside?
For one thing, supermajorities make it harder to achieve good change as well as bad. If you support, say, the federal Equal Rights Amendment, which could never win more than 35 of the 38 states that were necessary for approval, then a supermajority requirement might be a bad thing.
In practice, supermajorities allow a minority to block the preference of the majority. James Madison, the architect of the U.S. Constitution, worried about the tyranny of the majority over the minority, but he recognized that the opposite was also disconcerting. He wrote in the Federalist Papers that supermajorities could cause "the fundamental principle of free government" to be reversed. "It would be no longer majority that would rule: the power would be transferred to the minority," he wrote. "... An interested minority might take advantage of it to screen themselves from equitable sacrifices to the general weal, or, in particular emergencies, to extort unreasonable indulgences."

"In practice, supermajorities allow a minority to block the preference of the majority", I think more often than not this is what is going on ...
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Downside:

Split membership on decisions

Since the CC&Rs specify what you can and cannot do with your property, a 2/3 approval requirement is, in my opinion, the proper thing to have.

Since the Bylaws specify how Associations are to run, a 51% approval requirement makes sense.

If you do an internet search on majority vs supermajority pros and cons you will be provided with a fair amount of links.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Nancy

For the sake of conversation:

Many confuse Majority of owners with Majority of a Quorum.

Examples in our HOA

Majority for a Quorum. We need 20% of owners (23 of 112) to have a Quorum to conduct business. I have seen this number as low as 10% and as high as 50%.

Bylaw Changes: We need 51% of all our owners (58 of 112) to agree (not just vote on but agree with) to said change. 57 or less yeses and it fails. Not 51% of a Quorum (which would be 12) but 51% of all owners.

Covenant Changes: We need 2/3rds of all our owners (74 of 112) to agree (not just vote on but agree with) to said changes. 73 or less of yess and it fails. Not 2/3rds of a Quorum (16 of 23) but 2/3rds of all owners.

Remember all signed on to "your" numbers when they bought in. If at a later time they want to modify they still need the original numbers they signed on to, to do so. Our original Quorum number was 50% so when we wanted to change it to 20% we still need 50% to approve such.

I am starting on my third drink so I hope my numbers add up.....LOL

NancyS20 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Very helpful, we just finished our annual meeting and I am on my second glass of pinot ;-). We left it that we will seek the best practice of counsel and do a straw poll, it may be a gradation of consent, 67% for some things and less for others. Bottom line is that no covenants will probably ever be approved due to apathy!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyS20 on 10/23/2016 5:04 PM

Bottom line is that no covenants will probably ever be approved due to apathy!

That can go both ways (membership and Board) on apathy.

If the Board really wants something to pass they will allow the maximum amount of time for the notice and knock on each and every door (two or three time if needed, make phone calls and send emails to obtain the proxies needed to make something pass. Sometimes, a Board will put the info out there, not put their heart into obtaining proxies and then blame membership apathy for something not getting adopted when in fact it's a combination of membership and Board member apathy on obtaining proxies.

GregC6 (Washington)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Your bylaws should state the margin needed for approval. If not, it may be covered in state law as it is in Washington state.

My HOA started an effort to modify covenants until we got a lawyer to assist. Because a property constitutes one vote, he said we would need votes from all owners of each property to count the vote. Needless to say that sunk the attempt to change the covenants!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyS20 on 10/23/2016 5:04 PM
Very helpful, we just finished our annual meeting and I am on my second glass of pinot ;-). We left it that we will seek the best practice of counsel and do a straw poll, it may be a gradation of consent, 67% for some things and less for others. Bottom line is that no covenants will probably ever be approved due to apathy!

Sure explains why we couldn't get our proposed CCR revisions approved (they currently require 75%!)

To make things easier, I don't think I'd have a gradation of consent - stick to a lower percentage and go with that. Some people balk at them, but I say reducing a supermajority to, say 51%, doesn't remove anyone's right to vote. If you want something or not, get off your arse and vote accordingly.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
NancyS20 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Sheila, you may want to even see if 75% is even legal in your state. Its not any longer in CO.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with those who think 51% is OK. That's hard enough to do for whatever reasons. If an HOA, gets, say 53% approval and 18% no votes, the indication is very strong I think that Owners in general approve the changes.

Our CC&Rs require 67%, BUT in CA if an HOA can show it tried very diligently to get enough votes, e.g., multiple mailings to those who haven't yet voted, etc., the courts will approve them if 51% approval is achieved.

IF we ever get to rewriting ours, it's made a little tougher because we have 30% landlords and 11% who live here part time. So, we'd just have to keep hounding the absentee owners by mail to return their ballots, though I think targeted eblasts would be OK.

Because owners may vote by mail, proxies simply aren't used here though our Bylaws permit them.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyS20 on 10/22/2016 9:25 PM
38-33.3-217. Amendment of declaration. (1) (a) (I) Except as otherwise provided in

subparagraphs (II) and (III) of this paragraph (a), the declaration, including the plats and maps, may

be amended only by the affirmative vote or agreement of unit owners of units to which more than

fifty percent of the votes in the association are allocated or any larger percentage, not to exceed sixty-
seven percent, that the declaration specifies.

Nancy S20 Col: Your Board may want to notice that the above formula's lower level of approval is not actually 51 % but 'one vote more than 50 %'.

Given also that it allows whatever such to be exercised by either vote or 'agreement', a 'consent type'/ witnessed non-contemporaneous signatures process appears to be contemplated if allowed in whatever such manner within your by-laws. This 'grabbing by the lapels' process would tend to lower the bar below herding together all the votes & proxies into a single meeting.

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