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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We 7 directors received materials several days in advance of a confidential executive session that was held 10 days ago or so. The agenda item was to consider restructuring some staff here, which would’ve involved reducing one staffer’s hours from full to PT.

This could save Owners a great deal in dues per mo. for ’17 without sacrificing any services.

A few days before the ES, we received a confidential email from the CEO of our MC saying that one or more directors had divulged this possibility to non-director owners AND to the involved staffer too. We were advised to cease & desist spreading the rumors immediately. I was disgusted.

Our ES was a shambles and no changes were made due to a tie vote (the 7th director as usual, did not attend)

We’ll have our last ES of the current term later this month. We’ll also have our annual mtg. and one director will be replaced as she didn’t seek reelection. Any or all of 3 directors could have been the violators, including her.

At this ES, I’d like to discuss this breach of confidentiality. What should the discussion be?? My own tendency is to emphasize “trust” and how to regain it.

But I’d appreciate any other suggestions. I’ve poked around online without much luck. Any sites I can visit?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I know your not going to like my advice... However, I am not one for keeping such things confidential. What was the purpose of it? Walmart announced that they were doing a similar practice. Reducing many full time employees down to part time. It's kind of a regular business decision. Now it may have hurt the staffer's feelings. However, not sure why the possibility of such action was not discussed with them prior.

Seems instead of a confidentiality violation, you have someone who felt it much better to give a "Heads up" to the potential affected parties...

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Does your HOA have a Code of Ethics, with a procedure for complaints? Was a part of the governing documents violated? If not, I guess one could say one of the directors violated her or his fiduciary duty by letting non-directors know of an executive session item. But it's still hard to see any harm here.

I think the reasons for certain items being discussed in executive session tend to fall into the areas of privacy law; HOAattorney-HOAclient privilete; or sensitive matters which, if prematurely publicized, could harm the corporation. This agenda item got out. But what was the harm exactly? The CEO of the MC is claiming harm from the rumors in what way? Is the fact that he has a demoralized employee, cut from full time to part time, the harm? It's the HOA's right to cut back the hours, so I am not seeing it.

I think that, were I on the Board, I would not confirm or deny rumors until the Board had its ES. I'd remember that it is easy to make much ado about nothing and try to avoid trying to control people. Folks are going to make mistakes. They're going to do things one does not like, and sometimes with malice. Not to be too preachy, but we can only control our own actions. I think the line that's making the rounds in the media lately, courtesy of First Lady Michelle Obama, is a good one: When they go low, you go high.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/15/2016 6:12 PM
A few days before the ES, we received a confidential email from the CEO of our MC saying that one or more directors had divulged this possibility to non-director owners AND to the involved staffer too. We were advised to cease & desist spreading the rumors immediately.


Since when does your management company control what your directors discuss about your staff?

The "rumors," as you call them, exist only because your board is trying to keep something secret from the owners and the staff member. It sounds like one or two of the board members has decided not to aid and abet this plot against the owners. I say good for them. You are not the Pentagon building nuclear submarines. You are just a condo association that no one else cares about.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Kerry,

As with Larry, the issue in your story that disgusted me the most was the MC ordered the Board to cease and desist.
It was my understanding that the MC works for the Board and not the other way around. That directive from the MC seems to indicate otherwise with your Association and should be something that needs to be looked into.

As for the confidentiality issue itself, I'm not really sure how much of what you specified should have been confidential. Yes, personnel actions can be confidential but don't have to be. The issue wasn't the result of a disciplinary issue with the employee, the issue was budgetary. Had I been on your Board, I would have moved all such discussions be held at an open meeting as I don't think it met the requirements for an executive session (at least not based on what you provided).

I would also caution you about raising the issue of trust and how to regain it. This may backfire drastically as most individuals believe that they are trustworthy and how dare someone question it.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for your replies so far. Clarification: The staffer involved is an employee of our MC. The issue there has to do with a part of employment law, not with our HOA per se. Can't say more about that.

The directors who breached confidentiality were indeed trying to keep this MC employee with us even though h'owners would pay quite a lot less per month in dues if the position is 1/2 time. To me, the harm is they'll keep paying higher dues to keep the person F-T, when our PM, who supervises the staffer, has said P-T is sufficient.

My own approach is close to Tim's- this is a budget matter. Our current prez seems to want too much in ES. The position's hours would have been cut in half. Now, the MC's CEO, via the PM, promised that a F-T place would be found in the MC--locally-- for this person.

We do have a Code of Ethics, which includes keeping ES matters confidential, which means we don't give a "heads up" to personnel who are being considered for a change--disciplinary reasons or not, and certainly not to homeowners until the Board has discussed it.

But I'm taking the general advice of cooling my heels. I may just place the topic on the agenda for general discussion.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kerry

It is not uncommon for one to be devious to get what they want such as "whispering" to someone about what took place in ES. Other than expressing your disappointment and saying see how bad someone such screwed up the issue, there is little one can do about it.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/16/2016 9:19 AM
The staffer involved is an employee of our MC. The issue there has to do with a part of employment law, not with our HOA per se. Can't say more about that.


This is not an employee. He/she is employed by a vendor. How does this become your association's personnel issue if he/she is not your personnel?

I agree with Tim that the issue from the association's standpoint is budgetary and should be discussed in an open meeting. It was improper to put this item on the ES agenda.

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
The SUBJECT MATTER of the ES is not always "secret." Announcement that the board is holding an ES to discuss staffing hours is not a violation of ES confidentiality.

The discussion and voting decision ARE to be kept confidential.

The decision has to be presented at an open meeting, anyway.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Director#7 didn’t attend? Maybe it was him/her?

Anyway, it’s my understanding that employee issues can be executive session topics, provided the employee is a direct hire of the association. Since this person works for the management company, I would agree this issue didn’t have to be an executive session issue. That being said, I agree with Melissa it would have been better to discuss this possibility with the employee first – if job performance wasn’t an issue, perhaps that employee can be reassigned elsewhere within the management company and keep the full time status.

(Yes, AugustinD, it is the HOA’s right to cut back service hours and it’s true that being told one’s hours are being reduced or eliminated altogether is never pleasant, but there is a compassionate and careless way of doing things and this wasn’t it, so I don't really blame the CEO for getting annoyed because this sort of thing IS bad for employee morale - the same folks who may called upon to perform certain tasks for YOUR association!)

Kerry, I doubt anyone will confess spilling the beans, so I would simply remind everyone as to why executive sessions are to be held (and why they should be few and far between). You could also discuss the CEO’s email and let people say whatever they wish on that. Tell everyone the point of the discussion isn’t to accuse anyone specifically (even if you have your suspicions – and they may be right!), but to consider if this should have been an executive session agenda item in the first place.

If not, it may be time to clarify exactly what will and won’t be discussed in an executive session and not deviate from that. Directors should be reminded if an ES is held, they have a duty to keep those discussions confidential. If, for some reason, they feel they can’t do that or don’t want to, it would be best that they not attend and explain why.

If non-attendance of one or several board members puts the quorum at risk, you’ll need to reconsider if the topic is truly appropriate for executive session. Sometimes people want to go to ES because they don’t want others hearing them sound off on an issue. That’s not appropriate either when you’re on the board – personally, I want to know what you’re thinking and why. We don’t have to agree, but if you can look me in the eye and explain why things are or aren’t happening, I don’t think I want you making decisions that will ultimately affect me.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, Sue, in CA, we must post ES agendas 2 days before the meeting. The listed topic for this one was Contract Discussion. In our HOA, and as is permissible in CA and elsewhere, too, we are not required to reveal the internal content of ES matters at a later open meeting, just a summary of the decision. We might announce that: An owner was fined for excessive noise nuisances; personnel received their annual evaluations.

There is no requirement for detailed summaries of ES decisions in CA.

Directors here, per CA Corps. Code and Robert's Rules understand that whatever happens in ES is confidential and remains so unless a Board votes to waive it. We all sign a Code of Ethics pledging, among other things, confidentiality re: ES.

If you have citations that say we're doing it wrong, let me know your sources.

Yes, Larry & Tim it really should have been in an open meeting. The person does attend all meetings, though in her job capacity. I'm sorry I didn't a catch this error sooner as I believe the outcome would've been much more favorable for owners here.

Our board does evaluate and approve raises for the other six or so who work for our MC. And another five who work for our custodial vendor. We, of course, rely heavily on our PM-s recs. We do this in ES because it's about individual staff with names, etc. and comments about performance.

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