How to enforce speed limit.

Started by ReneeC4 • 18 replies • 2891 views

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ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

We are lowering our speed limit from 15 to 12.5mph. How are speed limits even enforceable in a gated community with private roads and no security? It's pretty subjective as it stands, but how is a 2.5 drop in the current rules going to solve anything? I'm in California. A few people seemed aware of perhaps a couple of "problem people", but they are in a different area than I am. I don't have kids or pets, so I could be perhaps oblivious to an issue, but I will say one vehicle has occasionally made me look up because it goes by pretty fast. There's a speed bump close to my house, so it's not something I notice very often with other cars. This is a jacked up truck, so it sort of sounds different anyways. How do you deal with speed limits and enforcing them? In reading Davis-Stirling, am I to assume this is only feasible with security of some sort?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Renee,

We have private roads, no security but are not gated. We invite the police to come in and enforce traffic laws.

Another option is to hire security from time to time (vs. full time) to enforce.

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

So, just changing the speed limit from 15 to 12.5 is essentially doing nothing and it's not enforceable by "we the people" anyway.

We are updating all our rules and will be meeting frequently as we hash things out.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

How is somebody supposed to tell where 12.5 is on their speedo? It could be 13 or it could be 11, such a choice by your HOA is capricious and fraught with error.

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Yes, that's my concern. The alternative it to use a radar system of some sort or hire someone to occasional patrol, it seems. How would the current 15mph even be enforceable? What can people say? It looks like you're going too fast?

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

We have speed humps already. I'm not sure how tall/wide they are, but I've heard cars ground out even when going pretty slow.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

The idea of an odd number is to draw one's attention to it. Makes them think.

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Yet it seems hardly worth the cost of changing the signs, when it may or may not be effective at preventing and is not enforceable once broken. If it's indeed only a couple of people, maybe this isn't the most effective way of achieving nothing. I'm not sure on the scope of the problem, but I will also say I have seen families putting out cones for kids basically playing in the streets.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

How are you going to enforce a 12.5 MPH speed limit in the first place? I know it is private roads, but how are you going to
override state or local ordnances which typically set residential speed limits between 15-25 MPH?

Couple of questions here, does your state allow for photo enforced speed cameras?
Does your state allow for private patrol to enforce motor vehicle laws on private property?

We have the same issue here in my HOA, but it is more of people outright blowing the stop signs because it is private property and there are
no repercussions because the law is not enforced on private property.

I can't get the MC of our HOA to even care about this. Nevada law is quite clear about "GOVERNMENT" not using
red light cameras to enforce traffic laws, the NRS does not say private entities can't use said devices to enforce traffic laws
on common interest properties.

Good luck, I hope you can look into contracting with a company that host photo enforcement and fine the offender
out the yin-yang.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Speed humps are now outlawed in the City of Las Vegas and in unincorporated Clark County
so are the tire spikes that are at exit gates.. City and County Fire Departments cite damage to their equipment and say
speed bumps and hums hinder response time.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 10/08/2016 10:50 PM
How are you going to enforce a 12.5 MPH speed limit in the first place? I know it is private roads, but how are you going to
override state or local ordnances which typically set residential speed limits between 15-25 MPH?

Couple of questions here, does your state allow for photo enforced speed cameras?
Does your state allow for private patrol to enforce motor vehicle laws on private property?

We have the same issue here in my HOA, but it is more of people outright blowing the stop signs because it is private property and there are
no repercussions because the law is not enforced on private property.

I can't get the MC of our HOA to even care about this. Nevada law is quite clear about "GOVERNMENT" not using
red light cameras to enforce traffic laws, the NRS does not say private entities can't use said devices to enforce traffic laws
on common interest properties.

Good luck, I hope you can look into contracting with a company that host photo enforcement and fine the offender
out the yin-yang.

None of that really matters in a gated community with private roads that are not open to the general public.
In Michigan, the police cannot legally enforce such speed limits (though that doesn't prevent some jurisdictions from doing so).

To the OP, I have to ask why on Earth do you have speed limits that are 15mph, and why on Earth are you lowering them to an even more ridiculous level? What do you hope to gain?

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

I am not for the change. It's a topic that is confusing me and that's why I came here. To me it's a waste of money (need new signs) to lower an already unenforceable rule in our current arrangement/setup. We don't have security, yet indeed we can hire a service to help enforce the rules as well as buying/renting radar. There's certain stipulations before a community can do that, but yes it can be done here. We don't have money for that, as we have less than 70 homes. I couldn't really find anything that listed a minimum adoptable speed, but does say specially for California "Associations can impose penalties on members for driving violations of members and their guests and tenants. Associations have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use provided the rules are reasonable. Adopting a speed limit of 5 mph for streets would likely be unenforceable as unreasonable but might be suitable for alleyways." [Davis-Stirling] So, what exactly one would call reasonable" is open for interpretation here. Is 10 reasonable? 12.5? Ai yi yi.

We have speed humps already. I'm not sure what their speed rating is, but I have heard cars bottom out on them, so they are plenty big. I know someone was screaming about speeding (and had mentioned wanting more) and it's probably a response to that fight. The person doing the complaining is the type who puts pylons up in the street so the road can be their kid's personal playground.

These rules were included in the original 20 years ago and this is our first revision ever.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Speed humps are rated for 15 MPH
Speed bumps (smaller in size) are rated for 5MPH

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Ya, the humps we have are appropriate. The one vehicle that I've noted speeding is a truck has a lift kit on it and it doesn't slow down for the speed bumps and probably wouldn't if they we rated for speeds of 5 mph.

Speed bumps were only mentioned in the street argument I overheard. That person wasn't at the meeting and speed bumps were not mentioned by anyone else.

Can anyone foresee any issues with having an unenforceable speed limit? Like, you have that whole deal with "dummy cameras" and how they are not recommended due to the false sense of security etc etc. If something were to happen, could they "get us" for anything.

Rules haven't been enforced for years, so this community is about to get very angry. At the last meeting they said people didn't want to serve on the board because they felt threatened by some of the aggressive members.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ReneeC4 on 10/10/2016 10:55 PM
I am not for the change. It's a topic that is confusing me and that's why I came here. To me it's a waste of money (need new signs) to lower an already unenforceable rule in our current arrangement/setup. We don't have security, yet indeed we can hire a service to help enforce the rules as well as buying/renting radar. There's certain stipulations before a community can do that, but yes it can be done here. We don't have money for that, as we have less than 70 homes. I couldn't really find anything that listed a minimum adoptable speed, but does say specially for California "Associations can impose penalties on members for driving violations of members and their guests and tenants. Associations have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use provided the rules are reasonable. Adopting a speed limit of 5 mph for streets would likely be unenforceable as unreasonable but might be suitable for alleyways." [Davis-Stirling] So, what exactly one would call reasonable" is open for interpretation here. Is 10 reasonable? 12.5? Ai yi yi.

We have speed humps already. I'm not sure what their speed rating is, but I have heard cars bottom out on them, so they are plenty big. I know someone was screaming about speeding (and had mentioned wanting more) and it's probably a response to that fight. The person doing the complaining is the type who puts pylons up in the street so the road can be their kid's personal playground.

These rules were included in the original 20 years ago and this is our first revision ever.

I think you answered your own question here. The best you can do is issue violation notices to residents who violate the limit.

Think of your road as a private race track. You could discipline people for how they drive, but you couldn't call the police in to patrol and ticket people for the same.

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

We can't actually issue a violation unless there is legit radar equipment and/or if we have security rounding.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ReneeC4 on 10/11/2016 12:04 PM
We can't actually issue a violation unless there is legit radar equipment and/or if we have security rounding.

Which makes total sense.
Essentially, you're powerless, and you have ridiculously low speed limits.

ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

I emailed the question to a board member to see if I can figure out the motive behind the requested change. Maybe there will be another solution based on his answer.

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