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RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
If the BOD passes a motion to do some type of action (raise the assessments, hire a vendor, ???) that they have the authority to do, but do it in an executive session which is declared to be a violation of the state's open meeting laws, does that void the action?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Robert, technically it is a violation and the Board can be demanded to void such action. BTW no vote is allowed during executive session, only discussion. All motions and votes need to be done during open session.

However, in the real world these actions will continue to stand unless someone educates the Board and forces them to change when they are not willing to listen.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 07/05/2007 7:34 AM
Robert, technically it is a violation and the Board can be demanded to void such action. BTW no vote is allowed during executive session, only discussion. All motions and votes need to be done during open session.

However, in the real world these actions will continue to stand unless someone educates the Board and forces them to change when they are not willing to listen.

What authority states that no vote is allowed during executive session? Or do you mean no vote is allowed for the examples I gave?
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
Hi RobertG:

I found this in the HOA Act for the state of MD, Section 11B-111 of the Real Property Code. I'm pretty sure that our HOA by-laws says exactly the same thing. T

5) If a meeting is held in closed session under paragraph (4) of this section:

(i) An action may not be taken and a matter may not be discussed if it is not permitted by paragraph (4) of this section; and

(ii) A statement of the time, place, and purpose of a closed meeting, the record of the vote of each board or committee member by which the meeting was closed, and the authority under this section for closing a meeting shall be included in the minutes of the next meeting of the board of directors or the committee of the homeowners association.

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Robert to expand on Roger's comment about "real world action" to your question. I would also add that while the board may void the action (the specific examples you gave were contractual, i.e. landscaper, etc), it does not "void" the contract if signed by the board, with the other party. Their position would be that they entered into the agreement, accepting that those who signed had the appropriate authority to enter into valid contracts on behalf of the HOA.

With that caution, I would further caution attempts to fully void the "real world" committments, and just limit the corrections (as Roger and other poster noted) to addressing, educating, or whatever the board to NOT make such decisions in executive session, but in duly called, open meetings. Hopefully, this was limited to an "oversight" situation where a vote was taken in executive session, and not something which was done without full intelligence with regards to proper selection criteria on the contracts. The latter would be a real headache because then the HOA is contractually obligated to that vendor, until such time you can properly terminate the contract.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertG on 07/05/2007 9:29 AM
What authority states that no vote is allowed during executive session? Or do you mean no vote is allowed for the examples I gave?

RobertG,
To clarify, some associations do allow votes to be taken during executive sessions. I just haven't ever encountered a need for doing so, but then I believe in total transparency
IMO the examples you gave do not qualify for a executive sessions (unless the prices bid by various contractors are confidential).
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
To Tracy - this occurs in Arizona and there are similar laws. However, I am talking about doing something that the board should not have done, and should have know it was in violation of the law.

To make it a bit more complicated, let's say that the board voted to raise the assessments in a executive session. Now there is not a vendor that had the expectation that the contract was valid. Could the assessment be declared void since it was done in an illegal method (it is not one of the exceptions in AZ open meeting law)?
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 07/05/2007 11:12 AM
Posted By RobertG on 07/05/2007 9:29 AM
What authority states that no vote is allowed during executive session? Or do you mean no vote is allowed for the examples I gave?


RobertG,
To clarify, some associations do allow votes to be taken during executive sessions. I just haven't ever encountered a need for doing so, but then I believe in total transparency
IMO the examples you gave do not qualify for a executive sessions (unless the prices bid by various contractors are confidential).

Roger, I agree completely with your thought. If I were in control of the board, I would not allow such items (contracts, etc.) to be voted on in executive session. However, I am not. State law seems very clear to me, but the board wants to do things their way. Also the state laws says the items MAY be discussed in executive session, not MUST.

The problem is that the members of the board just want to do whatever they want and it goes back to the many points on how to stop an errant board.
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Robert, I have mentioned this before, sometimes a grenade works just as well as a nuke....

To stop an "errant board..." first educate them on the mistakes in a respectful manner (put the "respectful" part in because we are dealing with human element/dynamic).

If that fails, bring to attention of membership. If that fails...

Look to "Director and Officer's Liability Insurance" coverage, EXPLAINING to the "errant board" that they have been warned, attempts to educate have been ignored - now if conduct continues, point out that the "DOL" insurance carrier may not deem it appropriate to cover the mistakes made over and over again, and after attempts to properly correct.

Nuke option - recall petition, special election, or whatever method your governing documents allow for removing board-members.

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