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DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
This article on the home page of HOA Talk shows in scary detail what can happen when boards leave everything to the management company and don't do their jobs:
http://www.starnewsonline.com/news/20160911/ogden-hoa-left-in-lurch-while-management-company-investigated

The HOA not only hasn't been able to access their funds, they don't even seem to know their bank account numbers. In fact, they seem unsure if the MC even kept their money in HOA owned accounts. It's hard for me to believe that a board (or several, apparently) weren't even periodically looking at their own bank statements.

I hope the associations that used this MC are able to recover at least some of their money, but they could be out everything. I wonder if the MC or the HOAs had any insurance that might help in this situation.

For those who let MCs access their funds, what controls do you use to make sure this kind of thing won't happen?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our HOA had a 2 signature system on ALL our checks. We had special checks (expensive) that had a place for 3 signatures. The 1st had to be the MC/Accounting firm signature. The other 2 lines were for the approved signatures officers in our HOA. Although these type checks are a little expensive to purchase, they did allow for more transparency and control of our accounts. The MC couldn't write a check on their own without going through 2 board members...

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
This is an example of why I always say that Association money needs to stay in Association Accounts with the bank statements being sent to the Treasurer. You don't need to be on the account to make deposits.

However, I also understand that in some Associations it may be advantageous for the MC to keep the operating funds in their accounts.

Regardless of which method an Association uses, it's important for the Board to trust but verify.

Crime insurance may help.
The MCs fidelity bond (if they had one) would help.
Seeking a judgement by the courts and seizing assets of the company or owner (if not incorporated) is a possibility.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/12/2016 3:30 PM
This is an example of why I always say that Association money needs to stay in Association Accounts with the bank statements being sent to the Treasurer. You don't need to be on the account to make deposits.

However, I also understand that in some Associations it may be advantageous for the MC to keep the operating funds in their accounts.

Regardless of which method an Association uses, it's important for the Board to trust but verify.


There is nothing inherently wrong with providing funds to the management company to cover operating expenses but it is foolish to hand every last nickel over to the PM. The board should have a separate operating account for the MC's use. The board should deposit one to two months worth of funds into the account and replenish the money after review at the next board meeting; the reserve funds should never be under the control of the MC.

GileaH2 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
MelissaP1,
That's all great as long as you have competent BOD's. I had question a Board member as to why he had signed for a $90,000 transfer from our reserve account. He couldn't answer my question and then tried to excuse himself by explaining he did understand financials. It just goes to show that BOD's tend to rely on the MC way too much.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Anyone in North Carolina that might be affected by that management company should contact TOPS Software in Clearwater, Florida (800-460-9966, as they were the software company handling their books and would have backups of all their transactions.
IM1 (California)
Posts: 44
Posted:
BOD relegating duties to PM does not remove responsibility of fiduciary duties. Also, ignorance is not a defensible action.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our MC handles all our money. We pay dues quarterly to a national bank lock box system who then transfers the money to the MC. The BOD has a "password" with the bank that would immediately stop all payments to the MC.

Our MC has no control over our reserves which are held in a different bank with only BOD access. The MC does get a copy of the reserves statements to incorporate in the monthly financial reports.

No system in full proof especially if the checkers (BOD) does not check.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our PM never made decisions with our money. They did of course write checks for regular bills. However, reimbursements or project receipts went through the board only. They could recommend a vendor if they wanted. Our board had to vote after using the 3 bid system to approve any and all contracts.

My opinion is a PM or MC are not members of the HOA. They are not subject nor do they need to comply to our rules. Unless it is contractually defined and paid for, it is up to the HOA to run its own business.

Former HOA President

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