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WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I've read elsewhere that property managers are not supposed to give "legal" advice concerning interpretations of HOA articles, by-laws, and CC&Rs. But it's not clear what is legal and non-legal advice.

For example, our by-laws say board meeting notices must be mailed between 15 days and 60 days, but the PM says it's OK to have a meeting since a letter was mailed 6 months ago with all the meeting dates. Other board members look to the PM as an expert and nod their heads in agreement.

Also, the PM missed the mailing deadline for a board meeting, and now says the next meeting can be an "informal" meeting where discussions can happen but no actions, but the articles/by-laws don't mention that, and the state's recent open meeting laws seem to say that's not allowed. Any thoughts? Thanks.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
WP,

The definition of legal advice, per U.S. Legal, is "very difficult and the Courts of the various States have not come to a definiton that is uniformly accepted. The Internet has made defining the term even more difficult due to the fact that everyone is assumed to know the law so stating laws and providing legal information is available throughout the Internet on legal and non-legal sites alike." Additionally, they start the article with: "Legal Advice, as opposed to legal information, is what lawyers provide to clients."

You might also want to review State Definitions of the Practice of Law from the American Bar Association.

If you are concerned that information is inaccurate, question it right then (provide the basis, governing document or statute, for your position).

Ultimately, it's the Boards decision on what path to take. You questioning and providing the basis for the question, so others can independently verify, will start to have the Board look to you as an expert vs. the MC. Then the question might become, would you be giving legal advice?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
i'm a little curious, WP. Your Bylaws say that notice must be sent by US mail to every h'owners for every meeting your board holds? And MD law also says notices of board meeting must be US mailed to every owner for very board meeting?
WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for the replies, and to this question, yes, our current by-laws say that regular board meetings must have notifications mailed by US mail to residents more than 15 days but less than 60 days. The state HOA laws require 10 days notice, but do not require US post mailings.

We're working on a bylaw amendment to allow email and/or website notifications, and I've also read elsewhere that the PM is not supposed to draft bylaw amendments since that might also be considered providing legal services.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Still curious, WP. Please cite the exact bylaw that says homeowners must receive 1st class notice of every single board meeting.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WP1 on 09/12/2016 12:01 PM
I've read elsewhere that property managers are not supposed to give "legal" advice concerning interpretations of HOA articles, by-laws, and CC&Rs. But it's not clear what is legal and non-legal advice.

For example, our by-laws say board meeting notices must be mailed between 15 days and 60 days, but the PM says it's OK to have a meeting since a letter was mailed 6 months ago with all the meeting dates. Other board members look to the PM as an expert and nod their heads in agreement.

Also, the PM missed the mailing deadline for a board meeting, and now says the next meeting can be an "informal" meeting where discussions can happen but no actions, but the articles/by-laws don't mention that, and the state's recent open meeting laws seem to say that's not allowed. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Where you may have seen this is from the state of Florida.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
WP,

I reviewed the Maryland Condo Act and search for the 15 days and 60 days. It refer to Annual Meetings, not Board meetings. Since all Board meetings, outside of Executive Sessions are open to the Members and may be held monthly, how do you give 60 day notice to a meeting in 30 days. The 15 days and 60 days is common through most association FOR Annual Meetings of the Members.

Below is a link to a HOA in Maryland and page 2 of the document has language you are referring to.

http://www.lyonswoodhoa.com/editor_upload/File/HOA%20Bylaws%202007.pdf
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
WPI

You might be confusing Annual Meetings (all owners invited), Member Meetings (all owners invited), and BOD Meetings (which may not include all owners needing to be invited).

I would say if the BOD put out a yearly meeting schedule for BOD Meetings, that would be fine. Such as the BOD will meet the 3rd Tuesday of every month.

WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
In Maryland state code Title 11B-111, all HOA BOD meetings (except special meetings) are open to all members and require members to have "reasonable notice" of the meeting. I suppose "reasonable" is open to discussion.
WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
It looks like the Maryland "reasonable notice" was discussed in this forum in November 2010, but there was no consensus on actual number of days. This is from the Maryland HOA code:

(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section [ie, special/exec meetings], all meetings of the homeowners association, including meetings of the board of directors or other governing body of the homeowners association or a committee of the homeowners association, shall be open to all members of the homeowners association or their agents;

(2) All members of the homeowners association shall be given reasonable notice of all regularly scheduled open meetings of the homeowners association;

But yes as some pointed out earlier, the 15/60 days notification requirement in the bylaws is only for annual meetings.

Note that Maryland is home to the Columbia Association, which has 100,000 residents, and they have very well defined policies that follow the Maryland code. Maryland also has Montgomery county, where the county government is very active in controlling HOAs and they also have clear policies.
It's in the other counties where things are confusing.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Richard, I had a feeling the long notice periods didn't refer to board meetings.

"Reasonable notice," WP does not necessarily mean notice sent by US mail. It could mean posting the notice in a common area or on your HOA's web site.

(CA requires 4 days of posting the agenda of open meetings of the board. We post ours in the mail rooms & on the web site)
WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Well, here's more from the same Maryland HOA code. It reads like residents need to opt-in to email notification for all meetings including BoD meetings.

11B-113.1. Electronic transmission of notice

(a) In general. -- Notwithstanding language contained in the governing documents of a homeowners association, the homeowners association may provide notice of a meeting or deliver information to a lot owner by electronic transmission if:

(1) The board of directors or other governing body of the homeowners association gives the homeowners association the authority to provide notice of a meeting or deliver information by electronic transmission;

(2) The lot owner gives the homeowners association prior written authorization to provide notice of a meeting or deliver information by electronic transmission; and

(3) An officer or agent of the homeowners association certifies in writing that the homeowners association has provided notice of a meeting or delivered material or information as authorized by the lot owner.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, WP, in CA Owners also must opt in to receive certain HOA notices, rules changes etc. via email. But in CA, HOA's still not need to email those Owners with notices/agendas of every single board meeting.

And I don't think the opt-in clause in MD mean that HOAs must email meetings notices to Owners who've opted in.

The whole topic hinges on your state's definition of "reasonable notice" or your bylaws definition of same. What, exactly do you bylaws say, if anything about notice to Owners of board meetings?

Keep in mind that I'm not in the legal professions or in MD. But of all the post I've read here for a few years now I've never seen an HOA be required to US mail or otherwise individually notify every Owner of every board meeting. In bylaws, these generally are called regular meetings of the board. Regular means they'r scheduled at the same time every month. they, of course, can be changed for any number of reasons, lack of quorum, for instance.

I think there's a different matter that's bothering you about your PM, WP. Care to share? Are you on the board?
WP1 (Maryland)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for the reply, here's what our bylaws say about board meetings:
"Regular meetings of the Board of Directors shall be held at least quarterly (except during the Development Period), at such place and hour as may~be fixed from time to time by resolution of the Board."

Some background:
- The HOA was formed about 15 years ago and the bylaws, articles, CC&Rs have not been amended. This is well before any open meeting laws for HOAs, which have since been enacted by the state, so notifications of BoD meetings should follow the state code.
- About one year ago the HOA hired a property manager, which was never used before.
- There are about 100 single family homes and the dues are about $450/year, for maintaining common landscaping and entrance (no pool, playgrounds).
- Home prices are about $900k to $1.5M, and local property taxes are about $10k to $15k/year
- The PM was brought on because the past boards had stopped enforcing any CC&Rs except for modifications, because they said there were afraid to write letters to residents. So sidewalks, landscaping, dirt on sidings, etc was getting bad.
- The PM costs about $25k/year, so more than 50% of HOA dues goes to them
- The PM is tasked with most of the work, but seems to be lax with board meeting notifications.
- I'm secretary on the board, which has one other new member. The other members don't seem to be aware of any open meeting laws.
- The PM has been slow in acting on CC&R violations, and makes appearances of being busy but has just delayed some compliances by 6 months.
- I'm an engineer and generally prefer things organized on scheduled, but I guess patience is needed here.

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