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Air conditioner heat pump compressor noise

Started by TinoS • 16 replies • 3507 views

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TinoS (California)
Posts: 85
Posted:
We are 15 unit townhouse complex in northern california on the peninsula.
One unit is asking for permission to install a compressor on the patio or mounted on the outside wall for HVAC. They have provided specs and it says that it is a Fujitsu heat pump. The requester is telling us this is very quiet.

The stated noise specs are 53dbA for cooling and 55dbA for heating. All the units are pretty close to major traffic, some closer than others but all units can hear plenty of street noise.

We've asked the direct neighbors if they object and they have said they would prefer to not let this be installed. Not sure what we should do.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
many dishwashers are appreciably louder @ 55-60dB(a)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Did the home ever have A/C previously?

If yes, why not install the new compressor where the old one was.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Here is a link to a list of common noise levels, perhaps it will be helpful:

Common environmental noise levels from Center for Hearing and Communication
TinoS (California)
Posts: 85
Posted:
No air con before. The units were built with electric radiant heating in the ceilings of the rooms, but no air conditioning. In my opinion for the micro-climate we live in here in northern california I don't think we need air con but they want to install it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Well, it was nice of you to ask the neighbor. However, you now have a problem (which is why I wouldn't have asked).

If you deny it because of a neighbors request, how will that precedent work with other types of requests?
If you approve it, you will likely tick off the neighbor.

My suggestion is to simply follow your own Governing documents.

Does the CC&Rs deny this item - yes, deny no, go to next step
Do the guidelines deny this item - yes, deny no, go to next step
Has precedent been previously set - yes, follow precedent no, approve

As a side note, I live in a town home development and everyone has their own air conditioning with the condenser right next to their neighbors wall. For the most part, the noise isn't heard unless the unit has a problem.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We're a high rise condos, Tino, so different than THs, I guess. We don't permit any installation of anything on the exterior of our condos whether in the exclusive use balconies or not. The #1 reason is to protect the integrity of our building's envelope. Penetration into it could inadvertently cause moisture to intrude and cause problems in units on to the envelope itself. The prohibition is in our Architectural Guidelines. So check yours and your CC&Rs and other governing documents.

But maybe you have similar restrictions if your THs are attached--don't know. Other reasons to turn down such a request might be, as mentioned, noise. Another could be aesthetics.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We're a high rise condos, Tino, so different than THs, I guess. We don't permit any installation of anything on the exterior of our condos whether in the exclusive use balconies or not. The #1 reason is to protect the integrity of our building's envelope. Penetration into it could inadvertently cause moisture to intrude and cause problems in units on to the envelope itself. The prohibition is in our Architectural Guidelines. So check yours and your CC&Rs and other governing documents.

But maybe you have similar restrictions if your THs are attached--don't know. Other reasons to turn down such a request might be, as mentioned, noise. Another could be aesthetics.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is a thought out of the box... Why not go visit a air conditioner sales place that may have a sample unit available. Maybe they can even suggest a customer willing to show their installation. That way one can really hear and see the impact of such a unit.

My neighbor installed these types in house instead of central air. They are pretty quiet. Much quieter than my central. However, it does take some modifications to the building which may not be approved/allowed. You do want to watch where the water run off will go and what that could effect when it drains.

This Old House website may also have some videos on these type of units as well. I know they had an episode on Ask This Old House installing such units. Maybe sharing that video/information may provide ALL parties involved will help in making decisions.
Former HOA President
TinoS (California)
Posts: 85
Posted:
Our property manager has recommended that we have the owners that are requesting this also record a notarized indemnification document that gets attached to the Title that has them cover any damage to the property caused by anything mounted to the outside of the building or patio, so we will have that covered.

As for visual aesthetics the unit will probably not be noticeable by the adjacent neighbors and not from the street.

The Architectural Guidelines in the CC&R as far as I can tell do not prohibit it. They do state that modifications have to be approved by the architectural control committee, which we really don't have, so the 3 person board serves as that.
ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
One thing to consider, besides the rating of the equipment, is how loud it will be once it is placed. Balconies and townhomes can be interesting sources of variable echo, depending on how they are arranged. I run my AC a lot more than I would like to, because the neighbor behind likes to keep her home on the cool side. Even it's a beautiful 70s night, I have close my bedroom window because I can't sleep when hers kicks in. I have to turn on my AC, because th ehouse quickly gets hot when the windows are all closed. We too live close to a LOT of noise pollution, but there's something about the intermittent AC that has me staring at the ceiling trying to ignore it. By asking the neighbor, you've now acknowledge you suspect there may a problem with noise. You can't exactly install it and plead innocence at this point. If you DO allow them to install it, do they eat the cost if it turns out it's too loud? Will THAT person then be ticked?
ReneeC4 (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Sorry, I must remember there is no edit button to fix my grammar/spelling "after the fact".
JohnL31 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 16
Posted:
where i am at now i have a mini split ac with a heat pump with the inverter in it. they are not really that annoying since they don't have to run at full speed all of the time!!! there totaly different from the older central ac units wich ran at full speed all of the time and they sound like someones ex wife and you can barley hold a convo over em.. id'e rather see mini split units put in over a traditional A/C system since those can be anoying. and if you can hear one kick on from a 100 FT away then yea that's noise polution to me..

and i went with the fujitzu since there really improving em to handle cold weather. mitsubishi would have been my second choice anything LG or samsung id'e run from!!!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TinoS on 09/10/2016 1:47 PM
Our property manager has recommended that we have the owners that are requesting this also record a notarized indemnification document that gets attached to the Title that has them cover any damage to the property caused by anything mounted to the outside of the building or patio, so we will have that covered.

As for visual aesthetics the unit will probably not be noticeable by the adjacent neighbors and not from the street.

The Architectural Guidelines in the CC&R as far as I can tell do not prohibit it. They do state that modifications have to be approved by the architectural control committee, which we really don't have, so the 3 person board serves as that.


I think your board should also examine the part of the CC&R that speaks of "nuisance" or any disturbance to neighbors. Recently my HOA's ARB and Board faced a situation with an upper level condo whose owner wanted to replace his wood floor (due to water damage) with a new one. The original construction had a carpeted floor. The owner bought the unit over a year ago with the wood floor already existing. It was a selling point of the unit.

However, Wood floors in upper level units are notorious for being noisy for the people living below. A number of cases where a downstairs neighbor took his/her upstairs neighbor and sometimes, HOA, to court over the "nuisance" of the noise exist. My HOA's solution: Permission was granted to replace the wood floor on one condition: If the downstairs neighbor complained of foot noise more than five times in a year, then the upstairs owner would have to install carpet.

I am not sure this is thee solution for the heat pump situation here. But I do think your board should try to please the next-door neighbor as much as possible to avoid a legal complaint and yes, preserve property values. I lived in a home with a heat pump on the roof. I found it pretty noisy. On the third hand, maybe newer designs are quieter.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tino

As your units do not have AC, I would suggest the BOD come up with a method, procedure, restrictions, etc. to allow installations of such like a min-split system. The association should take the lead on this.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The OP's proposed Fujitsu heat pump IS a 'mini-split'.

I have a second unit in my home (Mitsubishi) which is actually wall mounted on a bedroom's exterior wall.

You must actually put your ear ONTO the wall to hear the hum.

Modern technology PROPERLY INSTALLED is your friend.

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