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JohnC10 (Arizona)
Posts: 106
Posted:
The following link is to a public word document decision from an Administrative Law Judge with the Arizona Office of Administrative Hearings.

The HOA is found guilty of- among other things, violating the State's open meeting law. The petitioner (a Homeowner member of the HOA) is found to be the prevailing party in this case and he is awarded the filing fee ($550) to be reimbursed by the HOA. The HOA is accessed a civil penalty of $500.

My concern stems from the fact that the individuals who broke the law are not held personally responsible and really have no deterent from committing the same acts again. All members of the HOA are paying the penalty for the Board's actions.

My question becomes, do you think that a member of the HOA could use a decision like this as a stepping stone to file a successful personal suit against a board member(s), maybe even a class action suit to at least reimburse the HOA for damages, ie at least attorney and filing fees, penalties, etc?
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Even if you could, it's pretty useless to try and sue over $1,050. You will spend way more than $1,050 trying to sue and you may not win. The Board may be able to use the HOA attorney to defend the suit, using the HOA's money. Also remember that the D&O Insurance may cover the loss even if you do win, so the HOA D&O rates may rise anyway. I'm no lawyer, so I'll be interested what others say.

My advice would be to drop it and spend all that time and energy in a positive pursuit: getting a new Board and energizing the community with positive improvements. It's not enough money to worry about.

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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here it is yet again: SUING YOUR HOA IS SUING YOURSELF AND YOUR NEIGHBORS. This post is a PERFECT example of what happens when someone (individual homeowner) decides to take matters into their own hands and enforce a violation. Many here are ALWAYS insisting they take their HOA to court because of rules violations. Well here you have it. What actually happens.

The HOA is typically made up of ONLY homeowners. (Your post suggest others). Hence why it is called a Homeowner's Association. All the homeowners have agreed to work together in "association" for a common goal. That common goal is most likely uniformity and maintaining home values. The rules of the HOA should be created, maintained, and controlled by the "Association"/homeowners. The HOA is ONLY funded by the owner's FOR the owners.

It sounds like a homeowner was upset about the HOA board failing to have "Open meetings". This is something allowed by law of the STATE. (Although this could be a rule amongst the association only in some states.) One of the homeowner's decided to go to court to force their board to follow the state law to have open meeting. The judge ruled in the homeowner's favor. His judgement was for the existing Board/violators to open their meetings and pay resitution to the filing homeowner/member. Since the HOA board has to be represented by legal council in a court of law, the money for this representation came from the HOA budget. The award must also come from the HOA budget. This budget of course comes from ALL the members of the HOA. Hence, why your upset about paying for this.

A HOA acts as a "Group". It's NOT individual. So the person or person's that may have done the violation can't be taken to court individually. They represented the decision as a group decision. However, the court has now ruled they must act accordingly and can no longer break the law of open meeting. There's no real need to gather resitution if they are no longer a violator of the law.

This could have ALL been avoided if the owner's had avoided the court room altogether. The HOA documents are setup to handle situations like this outside of court. A majority of homeowner's have more control of a HOA board than a HOA board has of them. IF you have a majority of homeowners banned together, they could have changed the rules, kicked out the board member/s, or put pressure on the board to change. Going to court just creates an endless cycle that expensive to all around.

Former HOA President
JudithC (Virginia)
Posts: 253
Posted:
"There's no real need to gather resitution if they are no longer a violator of the law. "

I don't see anywhere that he says they no longer violate the law.

I would suspect suing them individually is not worthwhile. Hopefully they have association insurance to cover it, though if the insurance company thinks they have willfully broken the law, it might not be covered. Seems to me that if they continue doing it, it is willful, then might come out of the pockets of the individuals. Let's just hope they learned their lesson with this court case.

It is true that when you sue the association, or fight back one of their frivolous suits, you are using your own money against yourself. However, unfortunately, this can be used as an excuse to let associations just run rampant, and in fact make them think they don't have to follow the law. IMO it is a good thing that occasionally they find out if they don't follow the law, they can get into trouble. It encourages their compliance.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
MelissaP1 - The majority of owners in Associations are apathetic, and uninformed. Even if they wake up and decide to be informed, are they really going to have enough history, and ferret the necessary information to act accordingly? We, the dedicated few who have taken an interest, followed the paper trail, joined the board or committee, are the minority. Example, HOATalk has apprx. 7,000 membership out of how many millions of people living in HOA/COA's???? Apathy prevails.

The owner that sued may pay a portion of the restitution to himself, however the winnings offset his/her proportionate share, and an example is set. A violation of the Open Meetings law is a very serious matter and one worthy of correction, lawsuit if necessary.

Most owners are not going to band together to get rid of a Board because they don't want to take their place and do the work. The things you say could have happened obviously didn't happen.

In this scenario the HOA got off pretty cheap and hopefully has learned a lesson. Unfortunately for the owner, the risk is retribution which we all know occurs. For that reason, to me it's not worth a lawsuit, rather to attend an open meeting and voice my belief, or write a letter to the Board of my objection to a particular matter and my alternative suggestion. If the Board can't handle that, no matter how many times I have to repeat myself, too bad.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
So there you go again Melissa - your thesis is not to ever use legal means against the board. They are exempt to do whatever they want to - eh? In this case, the board needs to be replaced because by their action(s) they caused the membership $1,050 unecessary expense plus for certain steep attorney fees to represent them at the hearing. The attorneys who opposed this law are reaping more billable hours because of it. Yes, this board needs replaced. Harold
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
I would imagine that the homeowner who successfully sued the board has established a very effective means to enforce future actions. The next time the board violates the law, that individual can notify all members of the association to pressure the board to comply or it will end up costing them all $'s for the next law suit. Sometimes establishing the precedent that you WILL sue is a worthwhile result.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Rather than considering a law suit members can consider a more effective solution and will cost a member much less money. Spend your time, talents, and treasures (3Ts) on trying to remove those Board members who are doing a bad job. It will be more productive.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JohnC10: Many of associations' officially recorded documents (by declarant at inception of community)does address Liability and Indemnification for Directors and Officers. It is very thorough by referring to 'no liability to Member or Unit Owner as a result of any actions taken or omitted....mistake in judgment...no personal liability arising out of the use, misuse of the Property...etc., etc, ...except for own willfulness, conduct or gross negligence...etc.

How then does one file a personal suit against a board member based on the above? It is usually easier and more cost effective to recall the Board.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Arizona also has a newer law defining the process for removing board members. It clearly states the number of owners that must sign a petition to get a meeting called where the actual vote is taken. Since the inception of the law, there has been a flurry of petitions started, but very few have actually succeeded. Normally the main reason is that the numbers required to actually vote out a board member are past the threshold of normal apathy level in the HOA.

If you have trouble getting enough votes to have a valid quorum at an annual meeting, there is not much hope in successfully getting one or more board members present.

Getting errant board to follow the law is extremely difficult (as everyone knows). The boards that are the most problematic are the ones that don't listen, won't educate themselves and believe they are always right. Unfortunately, they are the ones that need to be removed the most.

I just wish there was an oversight organization that was required to enforce the law. As much as I don't want such a bureaucratic mess, it would take the antagonism out of the enforcement between homeowners and would have a bar set which would measure the quality of the board. I doubt I will ever see it happen, but I can wish.
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
Here in MD a task force made recommendations that HOA BODs have some sort of accountability for their actions. A bill went to the House and Senate but went no where due to ethic issues:

On one hand HOA BODs are made up of volunteers, there are no educational requirements and they do make mistakes so our CC&Rs imdemnify them. I know, I know that's not news anyone here. So who wants to spend 10s of thousands of $$ on finding out that there BODs are just plain stupid?

Ok so you move beyond that at the next annual meeting by electing a new board. Then you find out you've elected the same stupidity or you're butting your head against the wall with the imcumbents or that its really the HOA lawyer or MC who is behind all of the evils.

One thing that did get signed into law is that the Attorney General now has the authority investigate HOAs if you can make a claim that your Consumer Protection Rights have been violated. I'm not too sure how that all works out . . .

Very touch subject. Sigh.
JohnC10 (Arizona)
Posts: 106
Posted:
I appreciate the replies. I think that $1050 is just the tip of the iceberg. I believe it was Harold who mentioned the attorney's fees. I know an attorney could charge two to three hundred dollars an hour for an eight hour minimum just for the day of the hearing. Then add all the billable hours for research etc., $1000 can turn into $10,000 pretty quickly and far too much to defend a crooked board.

If the board follows the law they can comfortably make decisions and even make a mistake without fear of responsibility, but I believe breaking the law has at least some degree of negligence (especially since they have a MC and an attorney at their disposal) no matter how you slice it and at that point all bets are off.

I would like to see a precedent set where board members were successfully sued personally. That would go a long way in keeping all boards in line.

JohnC10 (Arizona)
Posts: 106
Posted:
Also consider that in this case it was a 16 unit condominium. Sixteen people have to absorb that cost. That doesn't seem right.
JohnC10 (Arizona)
Posts: 106
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/04/2007 7:35 AM
Since the HOA board has to be represented by legal council in a court of law,...

This was an administrative hearing. Here
is an AL (administrative law) case
where the HOA was represented by it's secretary.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Tracy T:
In the past filing an HOA/Condo complaint with the Maryland Attorney General's Office was a waste of time. The complaint goes to the Office of Consumer Protection where it is handed to a volunteer who trys to "mediate" the complaint. If the other party decides not to respond then the "file" is closed. Try filing a complaint and see for yourself. Maryland has a new Attorney General and perhaps HOA/Condo law will have more teeth but I won't hold my breath. A separate office, such as an Ombudsman's Office, is desperately needed. Meanwhile, unless you are in Montgomery County, which has a Common Ownership Commission to resolve disputes, the court is all a homeowner has to protect his/her rights. By the way, there is a direct link to the MD Task Force's report on the homepage of www.marylandhomeownersassociation.info.
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
Hi Jeanne,

Thanks. I'm very familiar with the Mont. Co. organization. I have actually corresponded and spoke with them. As understanding as they are it doesn't make this process any easier. They are all about community and working with it!

I was very disappointed that Ombudsman's positions didn't get enacted into law. Hopefully, it will come back up soon. A neighbor of mine did talk to the county representative who advised basically what you said above. I may call the representative myself.

Talk about no accountability . . . the HOA attorney either committed perjury in the BODs complaint or didn't bother to check the facts involved and advise them to not take this route. I had even 'heard' from a couple of different sources that the HOA attorney told the BOD that we would win our case in mediation / arbitration! Maybe business is slow for him and he needs to feed his family. Lets face it, he wins either way. I was considering filing a complaint about him to the MD Bar. Any thoughts on that?

Filing a law suit is the only chance that they have to "be right". Despite our requests for ADR, we have not refused to change our project, attorneys have defined a compliant process and a community vote (essentially two times). What is even worse is that our attorney told us that chances of out right dismal are slim to none. A complaint is treated as "fact" - until those who are innocent until proven guilty prove the complaintant is guilty . . .

As it stands now my husband and I are resolute in defending ourselves. We will lay out the $$ and be happy to do so for all of the homeowners who have been hosed by our BODs.

As for counter suing that would be like what the BOD is doing to us - punish the community for following the rules. As for suing an individual well that's just spending good money after bad to prove their stupidity. If there is justice in our legal system we'll be reimbursed our legal fees however, the HOA looses either way.

Sigh.

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