💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Hello
I'm in a spot and not so sure what to do .
Here's my situation:

I have received a letter from my HOA stating that I am in violation of their parking policy and I need to address it ASAP or fines will be access and/or towing of my vehicle. However I don't believe I am violating their policy. What is my best course of action

First off I've been renting a condo from my landlord with the HOA's approval and am not the actual homeowner.
Secondly the condo has a once car garage.

I did receive this letter addressed to the current resident of the condo (me) stating that and I quote:

" It has been brought to the Management's attention that the occupants are not using their garage to park their vehicle.

Please refer to the (insert complex name here) Condominium Rules and Regulations where it states: " Garages are to be used for the purpose of parking the owner's vehicles. An owner's vehicle shall not b kept elsewhere on the property when their garage is available." The ules go on to state: " All homeowners vehicles are to be garaged. Overnight guests or a second vehicle may park in front of the garage or the units one designated visitor parking space. A third vehicle cannot be parked on the premises.

Violators to the rules and regulations are subject to monetary fines etc etc etc. Parking violations are subject to towing of the vehicle without warning at the owner's expense."

The letter goes on to say that If there is only one vehicle belonging to the occupant it must be parked in the garage. If there are two vehicles belonging to the occupants 1 must be parked in the garage and the other must be parked behind the garage ( the driveway) or in the designated parking area across from the building. Three vehicle are not allowed.

Here the background story:
There are 16 units in the complex. Each unit has 6 condos

Before going further I must admit that I do own 3 vehicles and I am the only one in my unit who does. So does other people in other units in the complex as well.
Unfortunately I have a very cranky lady living under me and who has the garage stall adjacent to mine who is not so sociable and just does not like me. I suppose it started because of a Super Bowl party I hosted 3 years ago where one of my guests parked in her visitors spot. I did receive a warning notice about that and since then have not hosted any parties whatsoever so as not to be in violation.
I, my fiancee and my daughter made multiple attempts to be nice, say hi etc. but she would not respond to our overtures and as such we have deemed it best just to leave her alone.

A couple of months ago I got my first violation notice in 3 years because I have 3 vehicles. I used to park one in my garage at all times, leave one in front of the garage ( tandem parking ) and park the third in my assigned visitors spot however she complained and I have since moved my third vehicle to an offsite storage location. While trying to plead my case I did bring to the attention of the HOA via email with pictures included multiple neighbors with three cars however nothing was done because I refused to lodge a formal complaint against them just because my neighbor has a problem with me. It still rubs me raw but I've learned to live with it as I have no problems with them and don't want to be spiteful.

With the 2 vehicles I have left ( a lifted Chevrolet Avalanche and an Audi A4) I have tried to make do as best as I can. I usually park the Audi in the garage and leave the Avalanche out in front of the garage with the visitors spot empty however it is a hassle because due to the smaller engine size and fuel economy the Audi is my primary vehicle. Thus I have to move the bigger truck every morning and night to get the Audi out and put it back in as because of it's size and the lift, the truck can barely fit. During the course of the day I do park the Audi in my visitor's spot so as not to have to move the truck every single time to go out and yes some nights I leave the Audi parking outside but not every night.

Since my fiancee and I commute to work in one vehicle to take advantage of the HOV lane, my Avalanche sits at home all day and rarely gets used until the weekends or heavy snowstorms during the winter.

Unfortunately my neighbor now seems to have a problem with that and has made multiple reports against me yet again as she complains that I should move the Avalanche into the garage and leave the Audi out or at least park my Avalanche in the garage every day before going to work. Apparently it turns out that due to its size even though its in my driveway it still offends her so she has concocted the story that my garage is left empty at all times and my vehicles stay outside.

Do I have a leg to stand on here?
Also what would be my best course of action?

I have read the bylaws and it is exactly as stated in the letter. However since I am parking in front of my garage and/or parking my second vehicle in my assigned visitor's spot at all times why am I considered in violation? Who's making the determination that I don't park in my garage at all and use it as storage only?

To make matters even more complicated there are even more families in the complex who have 2 vehicles and all the other units have at least 2 or 3 owners with their vehicles parked similarly to the way I park mine. There are even folks with one vehicle who use their garage for storage and keep the other vehicle outside which I have submitted pictures of to the HOA but because their neighbors don't complain and I won't lodge a formal complaint against them, they're not considered to be in violation.

I've talked to my landlord and he belated told me that was the reason his previous tenant left. There was always some complain or the other from this particular lady. He understands my plight and does not have a problem with my parking however he states that whatever fines are levied onto him, he would pass on to me. There is also the issue of my vehicle potentially getting towed as well.

Any advise?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Do you have a leg to stand on? In this instance, no.

The parking policy is in place probably due to the lack of space outside the unit. This policy is similar in all parts of the United States, not just yours. First car in garage, second on driveway and third in designated area. The problem that I see is you have three vehicles and apparently using the garage as storage. As far as the association is concerned, because of the third vehicle, you will have to find an outside storage facility for the ideas currently in your garage.

If the rules state a max of 2 vehicles, they are within their rights to enforce.
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thanks for the quick response. I only referenced the 3rd vehicle for background info. . I mentioned that I moved the third vehicle off the property. I pay for a public storage where it is now beng stored. My third vehicle has not been in the property for the past 3 months. I only have 2 vehicles on he property as of this complaint.
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
So let me go through the letter exactly as I understand it and you folks can correct me if I am wrong.

It has been brought to the Management's attention that the occupants are not using their garage to park their vehicle.
I am using my garage. I park one of my 2 vehicles that are on the property in the garage at night and remove it in the morning to go to work etc.

Garages are to be used for the purpose of parking the owner's vehicles.
Again that's where I park

An owner's vehicle shall not be kept elsewhere on the property when their garage is available.
At night 1 car goes in the garage and the second car parks behind it tandem style in the driveway. Because my primary vehicle is the only one that will fit in the garage with reasonable space to get in and out I do take it out and park in my assigned visitor's spot sometimes.

All homeowners vehicles are to be garaged. Overnight guests or a second vehicle may park in front of the garage or the units one designated visitor parking space.
I do garage one vehicle overnight. Sometimes I forget and leave both outside but I always park in my assigned visitors space and never use a neighbor's assigned spot.

A third vehicle cannot be parked on the premises.
I do not have a third vehicle on the premises. I have not kept my third vehicle there overnight for the past 3 months

If the garage is being used for storage, you mus clear the garage to allow for parking of vehicle.
Again I must stress the garage is not being used for storage

Am I in the wrong here?

Attached is a copy of the letter I received with identifying information blacked out for everyone's privacy

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄182438859071.pdf(156 KB)
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Elliot

After reading the violation letter, which includes the pertinent section of the rules, I stand corrected.

As long as one car is parked in the garage, you have the option of the driveway or your assigned visitors spot.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You need to let the MC know that you have x vehicles and only use one during the day. Hence, the garage is being used.

All the background stuff about your neighbor is not relevant and should not be brought up.

Or - start parking your truck in the garage.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Having read the letter, I wish to amend my suggestion:

1) Park the 2nd vehicle in the garage during the day.

The rules seem to be clear about that. If the garage is available to park a vehicle in, then you need to park a vehicle in it first, then park in the driveway.
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Sadly I tried to upload a image of the truck in front of the garage here but can't.

Part if the problem is that my truck is an Avalanche 1500 with a 3" lift.
1. It barely clears the top of the garage door
2 Width of garage 12' wide. Width of truck 7'.

Not only does it scrape the top of the roof when I try to put it in the garage but once in I have barely 2' left to open the doors to get in or out.
Considering that the garage is lined with shelves on both sides that were there when I moved in to store stuff that 2' is even generous.

It pretty much does not fit.

Is it within their right to demand that my second vehicle must go in the garage when I am not at home?
I don't see a stipulation in the bylaws that states that it must always be the case.
If it is, why does this policy seem to only apply to my unit and to me specifically?

ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Vehicle in front of garage
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1825241817671.pdf(122 KB)
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Unit on my right
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄182540875071.pdf(179 KB)
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
You, as a mere resident, as opposed to an actual owner, are NOT a member of the association.

Tell the BOD to 'pound sand' and only contact the owner/member. POLITELY

You had best have one vehicle IN THE GARAGE before parking a second 'outside'.

... and be prepared to NOT renew the lease

ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Units to the left and opposite my unit.
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1825452066154.pdf(171 KB)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Take a picture showing one car in the garage and one parked in front.
Send that to the Association and specify that you are using the garage for a vehicle. The truck will not fit in the garage which is why it's outside during the day. However, as you can see by the picture, you utilize the garage.
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thanks Tim

Thais seems to be the best advise.
Glad I came to this forum because with all the pictures I've taken I neglected to take one with a date and time-stamp showing one car in the garage and the other parked outside in front of it.
Based on your suggestion, I'll also go one step further and try to put a tape measure next to the side of my truck and grab a shot of that showing it's height as well as a shot of the measurement of highest point where the garage door goes up.

I will definitely do that as soon as I get home this evening and send a letter to the HOA with the photos attached as well as a copy to my Landlord.

Thanks again
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Remember to be polite in the letter.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Wow, talk about busy-bodies . . . in my opinion, you are in complete compliance with the stated rule as well as the rule's intent.

If you want to be a little confrontational with them (which probably isn't a good idea if you really just want them to leave you alone) . . . look up how the HOA's docs define "owner" and "homeowner". You could probably negate almost their entire argument by reminding them that per those definitions, you are not an "owner", "homeowner", or "overnight guest" . . . you are a tenant. The rule states "owner", "homeowner", and "overnight guest". So technically and reading only the words that are written, this rule is neither applicable to you nor the actual owner. You're not an "owner" and these are not the "owner's vehicles".

Unfortunately, they're keying off the one sentence that states, "An owner's vehicle shall not be kept elsewhere on the property when their garage is available."

I would make the argument that 1) your truck doesn't fit in the garage, so you make sure to park it only in your driveway or visitor space in compliance with the rule, and 2) that the garage is where the Audi parks, so even when the Audi isn't there, the garage isn't available since it's awaiting the return of the Audi.

You could also point out to them that while you refuse to submit formal complaints against other neighbors who park similarly as you do, it has already been brought to their attention and you have taken note of their blatant selective enforcement of rules within the HOA. Generally the rules of the HOA stand regardless of whether owners submit formal complaints regarding violations. It is the Board's obligation to enforce the rules. As they are now aware of existing violations, they should seek to bring other people into compliance even absent a formal complaint.

Also be certain to take pictures of the complainer's vehicles at any time that the vehicle exists outside of their own garage. Even snap a shot of the car pulling into the driveway just prior to entering the garage. Would be tough for that owner to prove that they were in the process of pulling into the garage when the pic was taken. Hahaha.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Elliot,

The crux of the problem in my eyes is that the owner of your property converted the one-car garage to a partial-car garage by installing shelving along the walls. Despite your contrary claim, the garage is being used partially for storage and not exclusively for parking, as your CC&R's seem to require. Yes, your truck will fit inside but you cannot open the door to exit the vehicle because of the shelves.

You might want to make a complaint against your owner since it makes it impossible to comply with the association's parking policy or you could just remove some or all of the shelving and deal with the owner later.

ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I've got a few more things that I need clarification.
After an exhaustive search, I found a copy of the HOA rules and regulations that was given to me 3 years ago.

I've attached the relevant sections relating to Garages and Parking with some pertinent sentences crudely highlighted

1. Garages
They may not be used exclusively for storage....

I understand this to mean that the homeowner or tenant can use the garage for storage of minor stuff like tools, shovels etc etc as long as it is not what the primary use of the garage. This to me means the shelves are OK as long as one can still park their vehicle. In this case my primary vehicle, the Audi still fits so as long as it is in the garage it is not an issue.

Is that right?

2. Garages subsection D and Parking.
The 2 sentences highlighted are a bit ambiguous and seemingly contradict each other.

Section D states that vehicles cannot be kept elsewhere when the garage is available
The parking section then list alternate locations for the owner or the tenant's second vehicle to be parked.

In my case if the garage is designated for my primary vehicle, wouldn't it make sense then to park the second vehicle in either one of the alternate locations?

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1825363572771.pdf(189 KB)
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
This also brings up another point I forgot to mention previously.

Prior to me parking my second vehicle (the Avalanche) in front of the garage I used to park it in my designated visitor's spot opposite the garage as it made it easier to just get in my Audi, open the garage door in the mornings and drive off to where I had to go. Also when I cam home I could just as easily drive up and park in the garage without hassle. I can only assume that the same lady filed a complaint alleging that I was illegally parking in my vistor's spot.

I received an email from the landlord who had been contacted by the HOA about these allegations and I was told that I need to park my second vehicle in the driveway front of the garage and in front of the garage only. At the time he also advised me to call the HOA representative whose number he provided to hear it directly from the her. She told me specifically that I cannot park my second vehicle in my assigned visitor's spot and that I have to park it in front of my primary vehicle in the garage. When I expressed my displeasure due to the undo hardship it imposed upon me I was told that it was in the bylaws and I have to adhere to that.

Needles to say I've adhered to that for the last couple of months until this new complaint now alleging that I must move same vehicle from in the driveway and put it in the garage now.

Someone must really have a hard on for me.. Excuse my expression
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Elliott,

A little tough love here:

I expect that your lease mentions that you need to comply with Association rules/regs.

As a renter, you have zero say with the Association. You may certainly ask for clarification, but that is about it. You have no standing to challenge the clarification. Your landlord could challenge it for you, but that is their option.

My recommendation is as follows:

1) Take the picture as I said earlier.
2) Within the letter you send with the photo, ask for clarification on if the second vehicle can be parked in your assigned visitors spot (and include the citation you provided us). Then wait and see what their response is.

If you desire to challenge the Association, purchase property within the Association, gather support and make changes you see are needed. Otherwise, keep life simple and deal with the minor hassle of parking issues created by your choice in the number and type of vehicles you own/lease.

Not what you wanted to hear.

I hope it helps,

Tim

ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
As per Tim's excellent suggestion I took some photos of my vehicles today.
Audi in garage and Avalanche parked in front
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄182514315171.pdf(156 KB)
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Avalanche roof line barely making it into the garage. The driveway is sloping so If I try to back up more the front end would rise up to meet the height of the rear and my factory roof rack, and who knows what else will get damaged
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1825182065271.pdf(148 KB)
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Side shot. I'm not even going to worry about how wide the vehicle is at this point because the bottom line is it just won't fit under the opening.

My next worry is that someone will claim this should be classified as a truck ( as in a semi that pulls a trailer class truck) because the bylaws do not allow those on the property.
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1825213889954.pdf(168 KB)
ElliottC (Minnesota)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thanks Tim.

At this point I have already started looking into other options to move out. I was initially in talks with my landlord to purchase the condo at the end of my lease but that's not happening now. I wish it was easier. I live here not only because it is a great place to live in this state but also because this is one of the best school districts in the state for my little girl. Thankfully my lease is up in a month. I was planning to renew but paying extra to go month to month until I move out now seems like a much better alternative.

I just want to cover my rear until I get out of here as an eviction will not look good for me.

Elliott
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
? Why not simply remove the roof rack from the truck (non destructively by a qualified dealer) and then park it in the garage ?

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
After actually viewing your attached pics:

The garage door needs adjustment to open FULLY (gains another inch+).

Only the 'cross bars' from the rack MAY need removal (DIY job).

You can now park the truck in the garage.

There is no longer an issue.

or

Continue to park the 'banned' truck outside where it can bee seen and continue the battle.

ps. the DOT 'sticker' on the driver door jamb does NOT classify your vehicle as 'passenger' but as 'light truck'

SHEEEEEZ
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Read your lease agreement with your landlord. Make sure it has in it that you must follow the HOA's rules. Most landlords use an off the shelf form which does not have that included. It has to be written in your lease. If not, they can't evict you based on this.

You need to make sure the board understands you are a RENTER and NOT the owner. They can't hold you to their rules as you are NOT a member. Now your landlord/homeowner is responsible. So the HOA needed to convey this violation to your landlord NOT you directly. You should not be on the hook for these fines.

Good luck and take Tim's advice. He speaks wisely.

Former HOA President

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here