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JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Has anyone had major success in collecting on delinquent accounts ongoing and if so how and what agency was used?

Anyone have knowledge/comments for a company named Equity Experts?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
For many years my former HOA simply placed lines on the homes of members in arrears. The governing documents authorized this; liens were cheap to implement; and the money came back to the HOA when the house was sold. Subsequently a collection agency was tried for awhile. The agency did not seem to be effective, especially since its commission was so high. The latter is common. Then a new Board president took over and insisted on hiring a collections attorney. When a HOA member did not contest the collection effort, this was a more cost effective way to collect past owed assessments. To me the problem arose when a member challenged the interest and penalties that the gov docs imposed, landing the HOA and the member in mediation. The mediator would ask the HOA to give a lot back, and the President (weak at math?) readily caved. (Whereas with the lien approach, the entire past owed assessments, interest and penalties were collected.) I feel like things have gone south very quickly with my former HOA. Two-thirds of the budget went to front yard landscaping services (it is a stand-alone house HOA); and almost all the rest went to the business manager and HOA attorney. Today the budget is in control, and collections are up I suppose (this made people cheer at member meetings). But this new President felt the HOA needed an enormous reserve fund. For what, I do not know, given the limited services the HOA offers per its gov docs. Over just a few years the board siphoned an enormous amount of money from each year's annual budget to build this enormous reserve fund. The result: Less maintenance of the grounds. I think the neighborhood today looks awful. It's hard to believe the HOA is maintaining front lawns. I think it's hard to blame people for not paying their dues. To me this denotes how easy it is for a HOA to spiral into a state where the value of having a HOA in the first place may be questioned.

I think my current HOA (a condo community with shared walls) uses liens and a collections attorney. The owed assessments are just a small fraction of the annual budget. The grounds look fine.

If your HOA is starting to see an impact on its ability to budget due to people not paying, then I think I would continue with the liens but also consider a collections attorney (not an agency) for certain, large-amounts-owed cases.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Thanks Augustin!

Sounds very familiar. But the negligence has ended with a change. Unfortunately some agreements were entered into that will never serve to collect until the sale of property. Maybe the thought was something is better than nothing. I would not consider vacating a lien. Budget and reserves are fine.

My concern is how unfair it is to other owners that pay and pay on time. While it may not have any noticeable affect currently it would have had a bearing on consideration for some increases that occurred and could surely offset current work cost. Those not paying benefit from the same increased value and upkeep as those that pay. The interest and penalties serve to offset managing these accounts. I get hardships, it happens, but failure to just not pay "because" does not really correct the problems.

We see folks that do not maintain privately owned homes and property. But this is a community so it affects everyone. Never ceases to amaze me how individual board member(s)somehow rationalize that they "own" the property and the money. Bottom line they are tasked with maintaining the value etc. and that could be easily documented.

Thought maybe someone had experienced more success.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Joyce

As hard as our association tried to collect some past dues, we were rebuffed. Once we turned the matter over to an attorney our collection rate got much higher. The "weight" of letters from an attorney mentioning foreclosure, credit rating reporting, etc. woke some up that this was serious.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We established a policy of 6 months we liened and 1 year we CONSIDERED foreclosure. This greatly helped in collecting and enforcement. It weeds out those who are ignorant, spiteful, or broke. Ignorance was for those who claimed they did not know about the HOA. Spiteful for those who were "protesting" not getting their way. The broke surprisingly were the most willing to make payment arrangements. Those we would forgo late fees/interest or have them pay 1/2 dues till eventually they caught up. Others got the full lien experience. Which includes back dues, late fees, interest, and filing/collection fee.

Our dues were due monthly. The 6 month behind was basically the breaking point of the expense of filing the lien. That is why we established the 6 months policy. The 1 year lien policy is because it takes about a year for a bank to start their own foreclosure process. So if the owner isn't paying their mortgage in addition to their dues, we weren't doing the work of the bank. The HOA would basically be doing the work of the bank considering the bank is FIRST and FOREMOST to be paid in a foreclosure situation. Although there are "Super liens" in some states that put the HOA/Banks on same footing. The issue is being if there is money available. Which most likely is NOT the case. Your trying to get blood out of a turnip.

Keep in mind a foreclosure is ONLY a stop the bleeding last measure step. There is nothing wrong with keeping a long term lien on a house versus outright foreclosure. The lien will keep accumulating till the house is sold. Foreclosures can't be done for every situation. Those in the ACTIVE military can not be foreclosed on. Houses already in bank foreclosure I would never do a HOA foreclosure on. Plus the HOA would never want the home. That is a whole other bag of worms there.

I do not advocate taking one to court to get a judgement. A lien is much stronger option. A judgement doesn't accumulate. The waiting period for it to go to court your losing money. Collection is EXTREMELY difficult. Considering the HOA has no rights to one's social security number. Trying to garnish wages may not happen without that. It costs money to collect. Plus a judgement expires after about 7 years. The person can simply skip town without ever paying a dime. Good luck in finding them.

Found once you establish a solid collection policy that everyone knows, it helps in collections. People respond better to deadlines. Plus weeding those out with issues help in dealing with each situation individually. Some require lawyers to be involved and others not. A lien may or may not require a lawyer to be filed. That varies each state. Not all collection agency are equal. It's best to ask questions what they can collect on and what they can't.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2016 3:49 PM
We established a policy of 6 months we liened and 1 year we CONSIDERED foreclosure. This greatly helped in collecting and enforcement. It weeds out those who are ignorant, spiteful, or broke. Ignorance was for those who claimed they did not know about the HOA. Spiteful for those who were "protesting" not getting their way. The broke surprisingly were the most willing to make payment arrangements. Those we would forgo late fees/interest or have them pay 1/2 dues till eventually they caught up. Others got the full lien experience. Which includes back dues, late fees, interest, and filing/collection fee.

Our dues were due monthly. The 6 month behind was basically the breaking point of the expense of filing the lien. That is why we established the 6 months policy. The 1 year lien policy is because it takes about a year for a bank to start their own foreclosure process. So if the owner isn't paying their mortgage in addition to their dues, we weren't doing the work of the bank. The HOA would basically be doing the work of the bank considering the bank is FIRST and FOREMOST to be paid in a foreclosure situation. Although there are "Super liens" in some states that put the HOA/Banks on same footing. The issue is being if there is money available. Which most likely is NOT the case. Your trying to get blood out of a turnip.

Keep in mind a foreclosure is ONLY a stop the bleeding last measure step. There is nothing wrong with keeping a long term lien on a house versus outright foreclosure. The lien will keep accumulating till the house is sold. Foreclosures can't be done for every situation. Those in the ACTIVE military can not be foreclosed on. Houses already in bank foreclosure I would never do a HOA foreclosure on. Plus the HOA would never want the home. That is a whole other bag of worms there.

I do not advocate taking one to court to get a judgement. A lien is much stronger option. A judgement doesn't accumulate. The waiting period for it to go to court your losing money. Collection is EXTREMELY difficult. Considering the HOA has no rights to one's social security number. Trying to garnish wages may not happen without that. It costs money to collect. Plus a judgement expires after about 7 years. The person can simply skip town without ever paying a dime. Good luck in finding them.

Found once you establish a solid collection policy that everyone knows, it helps in collections. People respond better to deadlines. Plus weeding those out with issues help in dealing with each situation individually. Some require lawyers to be involved and others not. A lien may or may not require a lawyer to be filed. That varies each state. Not all collection agency are equal. It's best to ask questions what they can collect on and what they can't.

Mel

We did all that (including liens) but until we introduced the lawyer, foreclosure, credit reporting, etc. we were basically ignored. The process must have some "bite" in it.

JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Thanks to all for sharing!

Was reading some info on credit reporting (below) this evening. Some debate on if delinquent assessments can be included in credit reports since it is not considered credit.

It is considered a payment for a service in my mind.

Article

“My objective here is to do a better job to get homeowner data onto the consumer credit file,” says Hobday. The company has been working on getting the millions of U.S. renters’ monthly payments included on credit reports, and he says owners’ assessments are the next logical step.

“That’s a significant expense for many homeowners,” says Hobday. “There’s a tremendous population there as well. Our overall desire is to make sure home-related costs find their way to credit reports and to provide consumers another avenue to help them build their credit. We’re going to do what we can do to capture as much of the population as possible.”

Most of our experts (but not all) aren’t excited about this plan, to put it mildly.

“I find this to be impossible from a number of perspectives,” asserts Andrew Schlegel, CCAM®, executive vice president of community management for Orange County and Los Angeles at FirstService Residential-California in Aliso Viejo. “Six to seven years ago, when everything went really bad in the economy and housing market, everybody wanted to do this. All the boards said to me, ‘We’ve got to ding delinquent owners’ credit!’

“I called several reporting agencies and talked to them about it, and I went as high up in their organizations as I could go,” recalls Schlegel. “They said, ‘We can’t do that.’ They said there’s no credit arrangement between an HOA and a member. Community associations are membership organizations.

“The HOA’s recourse for delinquencies is to get late fees and fines and to eventually kick owners out if they can’t pay, and an HOA can do that through foreclosure,” states Schlegel. “To me, that’s the recourse. There’s no credit arrangement, like with an auto loan, that says, ‘You’ll pay this at this interest rate.’ I’m surprised Equifax said they’d look at this.”

Hal Kyles, a partner at Denver’s Orten Cavanagh & Holmes LLC, which represents more than 600 associations in Colorado, acts as a collection attorney for many of those clients. He’s absolutely against his clients’ participation. Read about his concerns in our new article: http://www.hoaleader.com/members/1409.cfm

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
We don’t use a collection agency – when I was on the board, we hired our current association attorney because it was far more successful at collections. A collection agency may take up to half of what is owed, depending on the contract, so I’d still recommend you work with the association attorney. Some HOAs have one to do all the collections and another for other association business.

I don’t know about the agency you named and I believe the posting rules prohibit using actual names, so if you’re considering using them or anyone else, look for one that’s worked with HOAs before (get references and check them – preferably local ones). The Fair Debt Collections Act (federal law) has rules on what collection agencies can and can’t do – go to the Federal trade commission (FTC) website to see what they are and then check with your local consumer protection agency to see if there have been any complaints against whoever you’re considering and how they were handled. You already know you need to review the contracts carefully before you sign them.

I wouldn’t sign a long term contract at the start – give them a year to see what happens and if it’s not effective, you can always dump them at the end of the term. I’d also reserve the agency for the early stages of the collection process (e.g. sending nastygrams), which would include reporting delinquencies to the big three credit reporting agencies. That may have a more immediate impact (because credit reports are sometimes checked by potential employers) and if the homeowner doesn’t or refuses to work with the agency, the contract could stipulate the account will be referred to the association attorney who can take further and more serious legal action, up to and including foreclosure, if that’s necessary.

In general, I find the key to collections is to have a clear collection policy and that all homeowners know what it is, and then apply it quickly and consistently - that's why we always send out a copy with the upcoming year's Association budget. Your board also has to be willing to drop the hammer when necessary and if your current one isn't doing it or doesn't have the stomach for it, the rest of the homeowners need to make some changes before everyone suffers with reduced maintenance and property values. As board treasurer, I was always willing to work with people who’d lost their job or had major medical expenses or something else they couldn’t control, but as you state, not paying isn’t fair to everyone else who does. People have to understand that when you don’t pay your bill, bad stuff can and will happen and the association is simply doing what any other business would do. If you don’t want to deal with lawyers, liens and having to pay two or three times what you owe due to interest, late fees, and the rest, pay your fair share in full and on time.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Shelia

Not to confuse, but we turned our collections over to our attorney/law firm which does have a "Collections Department" versus a "Collection Agency". There is quite a difference.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoyceR2 on 08/06/2016 11:24 AM

Anyone have knowledge/comments for a company named Exxxxxxx Exxxxxx?

Joyce,

Please review the sites Posting Rules
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
We have had success in collecting assessments by turning the issue over to our attorney.

This is typically done after they are 120 days behind and after several notices and an opportunity to discuss the issue before the Board.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Caught it after I asked. Thanks
DjB2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 49
Posted:
In the last 35 years, our 32 unit, 31 owner townhouse development only had a collection issue one time; and that was about 25 years ago and ended in a foreclosure. We are self-managed, using no outside management firm. Most of our owners pay monthly, and on time. A few owners like to pay 3 to 6 months at a time and those are usually the few who get behind. And when they do we send them a polite reminder email and they always get caught up right away. Our financial year runs from 1/1 to 12/31 each year, so each year starting in September, we send out emails to all owners reminding them to be paid in full for the year by 12/31. We have never needed any collection efforts beyond these.

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