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RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Under our new Management Company and with the approval of the board the Association has delegated a new policy of having only 4 BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING a year with homeowners to state problem that need to be addressed. . In as much as they have stipulated such a policy it also restrict each home owner to 3 Minutes to state the concerns of the association. The association has 66 units and on a average have 10 to 12 homeowners show up. It is most difficult to express our options or arrive at a conclusion on such a short time frame. Reason given by board is that meetings go beyond one hour. On given our request and problems we see little or no action so this creates a problem.

Many feel that we are being restricted by such a time frame. The reason is that many owners have reasons and concerns not address by the Management Company or board in a reasonable time frame. I stress the reasonable time frame statement. Can we say two weeks for an answer and a time frame on actions needed? I feel that if the management Company would follow the laws and rules of the association many factors and complaints would not come into play. We find that the Management Company and APM (Association Manager) is very lax on property inspections.
Thank you.
R.L.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Do either the Manager or Board respond to written complaints of specific violations of the governing documents?

Have you tried to get on the board?
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Intermittently, but when we ask question such as how many renters do we have, or rules about units and keeping units free of kids toys (just one of the problems) as required, rules on parking not being enforced. Basic association inspections and above all the enforcement of our rules when violated. I could list 10 at this time but will hold off until needed. I did read the rules and Etc. 3 times and each time I report a problem I’m stonewalled by the M.C. or Board. This I know, the Board in my estimation has not read the rules and if they did do not understand them. The answers I get prove that. One major problem is when our assigned parking places are violated I have no written authority to prove that,that area was assigned to me so I can have it towed. I understand if I call a tow truck I need to sing my name to have it removed from my parking spot. Not having any fun with this. Need to run and get back to work, Thanks.
Thanks.
R.L.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Richard, can you run for the board and also try to get a few others to do so as well? If not, then your remaining recourse is to "get legal." Check your governing documents and state law to see what they say about arbitration/mediation. Send the board a letter of demand (google for info). Then you will either have to hire an attorney (preferred) or go pro se and seek either (a) arbitration/mediation; or (b) a court order that the HOA comply with the governing documents for xyz. If the directors and manager violate the order, then they will be in further trouble. The courts would prefer people get on the board, needless to say. Some here like to point out that this is like suing yourself. I think the cost may justify the reward (namely, getting a HOA that follows the gov docs all legally agreed to upon purchase). The time the legal actions may take may argue for running for the board with like-minded people.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Suffice to say the "buck stops with the Board". It is a good cop bad cop world.

I would make a formal request to see the a)management contract b) any other stipulations the Board has given the company authority to do c) request to speak at a meeting in advance with an outline of what you want to share d) have at least the primary topic(s) recorded in the minutes and make recommendations e) ask for copies of minutes which should be available anyway f) your request for # of rentals is not unreasonable g) complete request forms which usually have a stipulation/restriction on request motive and you can not obtain personal etc. info. h) are they required to have a formal complaint process? If so follow that process, if not do you have a DPOR in your state?
Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation. Have not found this agency to be what I consider very knowledgeable.

What we all need is some legislation that offers some real solutions communities for all involved.

RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
My thanks, I will start with the info you gave. The state has rules set in place, but the fight with the Board and MC. is hard. So off I Go. :-)
R.L.
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Thanks for your comeback. I'm at an age that I could not give the association my full time and as such I'm out of town in the summer almost 6 Mo. My wife was and it took a great from her but at that time we were able to fire the old management Co and the law came down on him hard for falsifying and taking money from the Association. We are in our late 70's and just can't fight all of the Board and management co.
Thanks for your comeback. If you wish check the Web on a David Martin and PMG Management Co.in Colorado. You will find a report on him.
Thanks.
Richard.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
CCIOA states:

38-33.3-308. Meetings

(2.5) (a) Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws, or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and board of directors are open to every unit owner of the association, or to any person designated by a unit owner in writing as the unit owner's representative.

(b) At an appropriate time determined by the board, but before the board votes on an issue under discussion, unit owners or their designated representatives shall be permitted to speak regarding that issue. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on persons speaking during the meeting. If more than one person desires to address an issue and there are opposing views, the board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of the issue.

The question would be ... what is considered "reasonable time restrictions". I would recommend looking at surrounding government entities such as your City or County government and what they allow for public comments during their meetings. That would potentially be what a court of law also would consider "reasonable". I have found most allow 5 minutes per citizen; however, other citizens in my city in attendance can give their time to one speaker which would allow one person extra time to cover all concerns of many. It sometimes is better instead of 3 people stating items for 5 minutes each and sometimes repeating for one person to spend 15 minutes stating all concerns in a manner which can make a better impact.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Well researched and well done post, JanetB2.

Richard, I hear you about what your wife and you have been through, and do not blame you for not wanting to be on the board. One of my former HOA's former business managers was charged with embezzlement; I think it was plea bargained. I am a little surprised at how often there is a report of a HOA manager being charged with serious crimes. I think this translates to the necessity of a board having some serious experience in business matters and so on. Good luck with all.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If this was a board decision, you may want to rally the owners together, vote these folks out and bring in people to do what you want. The management company works for the association, not the other way around, and the Board directs the overall actions of the property manager (which doesn't mean micromanage). If you get a new board, it should tell the management company how things will be done and if the company doesn't want to do it, find another one.

You said you don't necessarily have the stamina for this given your age, which is why getting more homeowners behind you is vital - someone else may be able to carry the message forward. However, you have to participate somehow - at least start talking to a few people and getting it started. You never know - you may find you have more stamina than you think! Just make sure everyone understands this is an all hands on deck situation - nothing will change unless and until everyone does their part.

As far as the homeowner forum during the meeting, I think 3 minutes should be adequate, depending on how many people show up. You have an average of 10-12 people on average (which is great for most associations - keep it up!) and even at 3 minutes, it's easy for the forum to run on and on and not get to the business portion of the meeting (which is the main purpose of the meeting.

A resident forum really isn't the place where most decisions should be made immediately. Ideally, you speak your piece and the board should then determine what sort of follow up should be done and when, and who should do it. At the next meeting, there should be a report on that follow up - for example, if there was an issue with an association vendor, the property manager should investigate and report to the board what was done. The board should probably set some rules as to what the forum is for and what homeowners should expect - and the homeowners should hold them to those rules.

As for "reasonable time frame", that depends on the problem - you may not have an issue that will be resolved that night or the next day, which is why you have to gather more information first and then address it. That could be done by sending a letter first and then perhaps providing a bit of follow up at the resident forum. If it's a maintenance issue, start with contacting the property manager first - keep track of when you made the call or sent the email (keep a copy for your records) and if it hasn't been addressed by the meeting, you can bring it up. And don't forget, there may be an issue with money - unfortunately when people don't pay assessments in full and on time, the board has to pick what will be done and what will have to wait. There's also the possibility the board is mismanaging the money, which is another issue (start with taking a good look at the budget and income/expense statements)


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Board meetings are for taking care of the business of the corporation. To take up a Board meeting time with complaints of residents could prevent this business from being conducted.

It would take less than a minute to ask the Board to establish a committee to deal with resident issues. This committee would be comprised of a few residents and one Board liaison and functions as an advisory to the Board.

This committee, then, would compile, list, explore, and oome up with solutions to issues (such as the toys left out and lack of information given to a resident.) The Board liaison would report these "solution" possibilities to the Board for approval.

It's not the best use of time for the Board to deal with small complaints from residents, when they can be dealt with by a committee that does just that.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 08/06/2016 2:34 PM
Board meetings are for taking care of the business of the corporation. To take up a Board meeting time with complaints of residents could prevent this business from being conducted.

It would take less than a minute to ask the Board to establish a committee to deal with resident issues. This committee would be comprised of a few residents and one Board liaison and functions as an advisory to the Board.

This committee, then, would compile, list, explore, and oome up with solutions to issues (such as the toys left out and lack of information given to a resident.) The Board liaison would report these "solution" possibilities to the Board for approval.

It's not the best use of time for the Board to deal with small complaints from residents, when they can be dealt with by a committee that does just that.

A sound idea.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/04/2016 1:09 AM
CCIOA states:

38-33.3-308. Meetings

(2.5) (a) Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws, or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and board of directors are open to every unit owner of the association, or to any person designated by a unit owner in writing as the unit owner's representative.

(b) At an appropriate time determined by the board, but before the board votes on an issue under discussion, unit owners or their designated representatives shall be permitted to speak regarding that issue. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on persons speaking during the meeting. If more than one person desires to address an issue and there are opposing views, the board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of the issue.

The question would be ... what is considered "reasonable time restrictions". I would recommend looking at surrounding government entities such as your City or County government and what they allow for public comments during their meetings. That would potentially be what a court of law also would consider "reasonable". I have found most allow 5 minutes per citizen; however, other citizens in my city in attendance can give their time to one speaker which would allow one person extra time to cover all concerns of many. It sometimes is better instead of 3 people stating items for 5 minutes each and sometimes repeating for one person to spend 15 minutes stating all concerns in a manner which can make a better impact.

CCIOA also states:

38-33.3-209.4 Public Disclosures

(2)"... within ninety days after the end of each fiscal year thereafter, the association shall make the following information available to unit owners upon reasonable notice in accordance with subsection(3)of this section:
(i)The association's responsible governance policies adopted under 38-33.3-209.5
(3)It is the intent of this section to allow the association the widest possible latitude in methods and means of disclosure, while requiring that the information be readily available at no cost to unit owners at their convenience. Disclosure shall be accomplished by one of the following means: Posting on an internet web page with accompanying notice of the web address via first-class mail or e-mail; the maintenance of a literature table of binder at the association's principal place of business; or mail or personal delivery. The cost of such distributions shall be accounted for as a common expense liability.

38-33.3-209.5 - Responsible Governance Policies

(1) To promote responsible governance, associations, shall:
(b) Adopt policies, procedures, and rules and regulations concerning:
(III) Conduct of meetings, which may refer to applicable provisions of the nonprofit code or other recognized rules and principles;
(VIII) Procedures for addressing disputes arising between the association and unit owners

I would first inquire if the board has such policies - meetings and disputes - and if so, ask if they have they been posted online.
If they have no such policies, inform them that they are in violation of state law.

LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
The board probably won't know what you are talking about but the MC agent should. They agents are now required to be licensed and to know the law pertaining to HOAs.

They put their licenses at risk if they knowingly violate or knowingly direct others to violate CCIOA.

RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Some good news. The board did get to change some rules and it looks like they are on the right track. Letter came in today of changes and it looks good I will hold off until I see what be comes of it. Thanks to all who have sent a reply . Wishing you all the best.
Richard.

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