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JimW17 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Virginia statutes protect volunteer directors from personal liability for their improper actions as a director.
My question is "does this apply to those not on the board at the time the issue is raised, but were a board member at the time the issue happened.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimW17 on 07/29/2016 9:34 AM
Virginia statutes protect volunteer directors from personal liability for their improper actions as a director.

May the Gods help Virginia.
JimW17 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
"unless they engage in a knowing violation of the criminal law or willful misconduct"
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
respectfully "improper" may mean that the Three Stooges honest incompetence ( default ? ) defence is not available.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Ask your association attorney - and perhaps your association insurance carrier. Your association should have directors and officers, or D & O insurance (you may want to check the policy and read that first). In fact, why not check the policy and read that section first?)

I think the others have covered it well - if the action was completely illegal and/or contrary to the governing documents there could be a problem. It may also depend on what the action was and if you can make a connection between and subsequent events that might have lead to a loss of money, property damage, etc.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Imo, the important words are knowingly engaging in willful misconduct or law-breaking. Mistakes are usually different matter.

But getting an attorney's advice is best. If you share the specifics of the action that's questionable, some here might be able to help!

My guess is if the act occurred a very long time ago, the director(s) would be off the hook, due to statutes of limitation, etc., but if last year, maybe not. Again, ask a profession.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimW17 on 07/29/2016 9:34 AM
Virginia statutes protect volunteer directors from personal liability for their improper actions as a director.
My question is "does this apply to those not on the board at the time the issue is raised, but were a board member at the time the issue happened.

First you must provide if the BOD is with an HOA or Condo. The if you are Incorporated or not. Most Virginia Protection will state "While Active or After Leaving", depending on where your BOD fits, you are more then likely protected, if like others have stated, it was a simple mistake. As an example:

"55-79.53. Compliance with condominium instruments. A. The declarant, every unit owner, and all those entitled to occupy a unit shall comply with all lawful provisions of this chapter and all provisions of the condominium instruments. Any lack of such compliance shall be grounds for an action or suit to recover sums due, for damages or injunctive relief, or for any other remedy available at law or in equity, maintainable by the unit owners' association, or by its executive organ or any managing agent on behalf of such association, or, in any proper case, by one or more aggrieved unit owners on their own behalf or as a class action".

This rule does not apply to Single Family Housing HOAs.
JimW17 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We are an incorporated condominium.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimW17 on 07/29/2016 2:24 PM
We are an incorporated condominium.

Your Docs will / may be effected by the Virginia Condominium Act, " § 55-79.40. Application and construction of chapter. A. This chapter shall apply to all condominiums and to all horizontal property regimes or condominium projects.

As well as the Virginia Non Stock Corporation Act. § 13.1-814.1. Special provisions for community associations.

A. As used in this section, "community association" shall mean a corporation incorporated under this chapter or under former Chapter 2 of this title which owns or has under its care, custody or control real estate subject to a recorded declaration of covenants which obligates a person, by virtue of ownership of specific real estate, to be a member of the corporation.

You can take a look at the section below, to see that there are many factors to prove misconduct by a Director or Officer.

§ 13.1-870. General standards of conduct for directors.

A. A director shall discharge his duties as a director, including his duties as a member of a committee, in accordance with his good faith business judgment of the best interests of the corporation.

B. Unless a director has knowledge or information concerning the matter in question that makes reliance unwarranted, a director is entitled to rely on information, opinions, reports or statements, including financial statements and other financial data, if prepared or presented by:

1. One or more officers or employees of the corporation whom the director believes, in good faith, to be reliable and competent in the matters presented;

2. Legal counsel, public accountants, or other persons as to matters the director believes, in good faith, are within the person's professional or expert competence; or

3. A committee of the board of directors of which the director is not a member if the director believes, in good faith, that the committee merits confidence.

C. A director is not liable for any action taken as a director, or any failure to take any action, if he performed the duties of his office in compliance with this section.

D. A person alleging a violation of this section has the burden of proving the violation.

Please keep in mind that you are regulated by three different sets of rules / laws. Best advice, seek legal advice, dealing with misconduct by HOA BODs. There are just way to many factors that can be quoted, to even make an educated guess. Just my opinion.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimW17 on 07/29/2016 9:34 AM
. . for their improper actions as a director...

JimW17 : The second part of the posting invites comment about retroactive indemnification of Directors.

1 - Respectfully, if one or more Directors' collective decision making met whatever standard imposed by state law and by site-specific governance documents, how could they somehow lose such such shield after leaving the Board ?

2 - "Impropriety" however might be unshielded and possibly uninsured whether for current or past Board membership. What is the alleged "impropriety" ?
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/29/2016 10:43 AM
Imo, the important words are knowingly engaging in willful misconduct or law-breaking. Mistakes are usually different matter.

But getting an attorney's advice is best. If you share the specifics of the action that's questionable, some here might be able to help!

My guess is if the act occurred a very long time ago, the director(s) would be off the hook, due to statutes of limitation, etc., but if last year, maybe not. Again, ask a profession.

Does anyone know what the statute of limitations might be?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Linda, to give you some idea of what the statute of limitations may be in Colorado, see http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorado-law/colorado-civil-statute-of-limitations-laws.html . Looks like one to three years, in general. Virginia looks similar: http://research.lawyers.com/virginia/virginia-statutes-of-limitations.html .

There is a section of something called the "Restatement of Property (Servitudes)," focused on community associations such as HOAs. The Restatement is a compilation of case law nationwide. It summarizes trends in the courts and is regularly updated. The Restatement puts a lot of emphasis on how the courts do not like to penalize volunteer directors, lest members in general be deterred from volunteering to serve. The courts do not want to deter, given how Declarations make it extremely difficult to legally dissolve most HOAs; someone has to run the place; directors have enormous legal responsibilities and yet are unpaid. I believe it would take a lot of recklessness. with a truly devastating effect on a HOA, to get a judge or jury to impose even one dollar of personal liability on a director. If a member's HOA grounds look halfway decent, then suing in court will not likely win any punishment of a director except public embarrassment for being named and possibly found to be not following the governing documents.

I think BobD can cite a case or two where liability was imposed personally on a volunteer director. I have yet to see one.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
//I think BobD can cite a case or two where liability was imposed personally on a volunteer director. I have yet to see one.//

I have seen several such cases, although the facts have to be fairly extreme. For example, individual directors have been held personally liable for theft, acts of self-dealing and/or bad faith/abusive exercise of their authority.

Individual directors are insulated from liability if they are exercising their business judgment in good faith and/or if they acted negligently.

As a practical matter, however, a plaintiff's attorney will typically NOT assert a claim for personal liability against a director as that could give the D&O insurance carrier grounds to deny coverage -- in whole or in part.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
//Homeowners have the right to have directors act within their fiduciary duties. Homeowners may bring an action against a director of a community association on the grounds of breach of fiduciary duty of the director. Directors, also sometimes referred to as Managers, Trustees, Administrators or the Executive Board, owe fiduciary duties of care to homeowners to exercise ordinary care in performing their duties, to act reasonably and in good faith in their performance of their duties as members of the governing body of the community association.

Directors must exercise reasonable diligence in following through and carrying out the responsibilities assumed by or assigned to them under the governing legal documents. Generally, directors must remain informed about the community association’s business at all times, be knowledgeable about the legal documents governing the affairs of the association, and attend and participate in the association meetings. Directors may be held responsible for obtaining and reading the minutes of those association meetings the director was unable to attend. Directors must also vote against actions taken or adopted by the Board of Directors that they are in disagreement with and record their disagreement in the meeting minutes. Failure to perform any of these duties in a reasonably diligent and prudent manner could expose the director to liability to homeowners for breach of fiduciary duty.

Homeowners do not have a right or guarantee that the decisions of the directors will be successful, because directors are protected by the “business judgment rule.” The policy behind this rule is to allow leeway for a director’s business judgment in business decisions, while discouraging the court from stepping into the director’s shoes to analyze the soundness of business decisions. So long as the decision was made in good faith, the director will be protected from homeowner suits by the business judgment rule. See Schwarzmann v. Association of Apartment Owners, 33 Wash. App. 397, 655 P.2d 1177 (1982).

Homeowners have the right to expect directors to bring all corporate opportunities to the community association. If they don’t, directors may be held liable for the usurpation of a corporate opportunity. Specifically, a director may not appropriate to his or her own use a business opportunity that belongs to the community association. See Kirtley v. McClelland, 562 N.E.2d 27 (Ind. App. 1991).

Homeowners have the right to have the directors be loyal to just the interests of the common interest community, and not to the self interests of the director. Where a conflict of interest arises, a director is responsible for notifying the Board of the conflict and removing himself from participation in any decisions regarding the subject matter of the conflict. If a director fails to do so, homeowners may bring a derivative action for lost profits.//

http://www.hindmansanchez.com/resources/article/homeowner-suits-against-community-associations/

On a related issue: if you are serving as a director, make sure that you review the association's D&O policy to ensure that both you and the association are adequately protected. Insurance is not a fungible item, and the devil is always in the details. From the article below:

//Another extremely important point: community association board members and property managers need to be aware of what is excluded in their current directors and officers liability policy. Many policies currently available exclude breach of contract, discrimination, employment issues and architectural issues, so as the old saying goes “buyer beware!”//

http://www.insurancejournal.com/magazines/features/2012/04/02/241157.htm

Therefore, in addition to finding and engaging experienced association counsel to assist it, an association's Board is strongly advised to find and engage an insurance professional who is experienced in community association insurance matters.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In CA Corp Code, and I guess it's our BJR, most of that James so nicely summarizes is in it. I do wish we had a "duty" to try to understand our governing docs, but that' nowhere to be found in CA (so far as I know).

Directors, in the CA BJR, are entitled to seek the advice and opinions of experts and I think boards, especially of larger HOAs do. Examples are an HOA law firm; an auditor, insurance agent; reserves analyst or specialist, professional engineer and so on.

But what if the majority of a board refuses to follow the expert's advice?? Here, for example, assessments have been inaccurately billed for a very long time in the areas of reserves and the operating budget. The result is that one group of Owners have overpaid and another much smaller group has underpaid. Our board has corrected some of these errors. Our attorneys, in a long opinion, wrote that the board must endeavor to correct billing errors that favor one group over another based on "equitable legal principals."

Work remains and I believe the majority of the board may not vote clean up the rest of the errors for the 2017 budget. They feel it's too "hard" on the smaller group whose dues will go up quite a bit. They seem unconcerned that the majority has been upcharged for years. (No one is trying to correct anything going back in time, just going forward.) Advice to persuade the board to do the right thing?
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Hi Kerry,

Not a CA attorney, mind you, but located this that I believe may speak to your concern:

//"Due diligence" or the duty to investigate is one of the fiduciary duties of directors. Association boards of directors must make reasonable inquiry of rules violations, maintenance issues, reserve components, association finances, etc. before making decisions. This does not mean they must personally inspect water leaks or personally talk to vendors--they can rely on managing agents, committees or others to gather information for their review and discussion.

A director cannot close his eyes to what is going on about him in the conduct of the business of the corporation and have it said that he is exercising business judgment. (Burt v. Irvine Co. (1965) 237 Cal.App.2d 828, 852-853.)//

http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/471/Default.aspx

A similar rule applies here in FL. FWIW, I have long espoused the position that if an individual chooses to serve on a Board of Directors, he/she has a duty to become reasonably conversant with the community's governing documents.

That doesn't mean that such a duty carries with it an obligation to rightly interpret the governing documents in all cases (even well-seasoned attorneys can, and often do, argue vociferously about their competing interpretations of specific verbiage), but it does mean that the director needs to dedicate meaningful effort to studying the governing documents, raise a question for discussion when a matter is unclear to him/her, and make the case to his/her fellow Board members for securing a legal opinion to guide them when the issue is subject to a reasonable difference of opinion and the Board's interpretation could serve to prejudice one or more owners in a substantial way.

I won't second-guess your Association counsel's legal opinion (no doubt that counsel had much more information available to him/her than I in assessing the issue), but if there were rather obvious errors made in assessing owners over the years, the failure to give your Board more specific guidance than what you've noted above is surprising. What happens to the owner who was overcharged for years but sold his/her property before receiving the appropriate adjustment? What happens if one of the owners discovers the error and decides that a visit to his brother-in-law the class action lawyer is in order? What happens when the association attorney undertakes to collect sums from an owner that the attorney knows are erroneous?

Every day that the Board delays/drags it feet in making things right subjects the Association to potential legal liability. Moreover, if the Board has decided to not disclose this information to its membership (as well as the former owners who have overpaid), an argument could be made that such owners/former owners are being defrauded.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
IMO:

mal-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

mis-feasance = 'business judgment rule' applies

non-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

simple

I will wager your D & O insurance policy agrees - read the actual policy, not merely the 'declaration page'.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I really like this quote, James: "A director cannot close his eyes to what is going on about him in the conduct of the business of the corporation and have it said that he is exercising business judgment." (Burt v. Irvine Co. (1965) 237 Cal.App.2d 828, 852-853.)//

First, the errors weren't obvious because we have a very complicated set of three reserves accounts and a op. budget that receives assessments from the sources. I discovered some errors quite by accident. I'm not a numbers person and had relied on our treasurer, finance omitted and PM(s) concerning the budgets my first few year on the board.

Because of the complexity and because I didn't discover all of the errors at one time, but over a couple of years, I had difficulty explaining them to my fellow directors and to the PM.

A major problem is that our CC&Rs don't specify what % the three areas should contribute for various op. budget items OR for which line items! This, is all is found in the Dept. of RE Budget turned in to the state by the delver 15 years ago. So, I had to wade though budget worksheets and some narrative to understand.

At present, all 6 of us residential directors understand the issues to a great or weak degree. The 7th director reps the Commercial Owners in our mixed us condo high rises. And my finding do not benefit them at all.

More later, I really appreciate your comments, James! thanks PiTa. I guess you;re saying the directors who're dragging their feet & stalling are practicing non feasance? I'll look up later.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
//mal-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

mis-feasance = 'business judgment rule' applies

non-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

simple

I will wager your D & O insurance policy agrees - read the actual policy, not merely the 'declaration page'.//

I'll take that wager. I can't speak to what the law and practices are in South Carolina, but in Florida D&O policies come in varying shapes and sizes.

Just like one may purchase from among a spectrum of narrow to broad vehicle liability coverages for oneself and one's family, the same market dynamic applies to D&O policies. Coverages, exclusions, deductibles, definitions of what constitutes a "claim," and sundry other terms and conditions are anything but cookie-cutter.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Thanks for the additional information, Kerry. It is very helpful to appreciate the context.

I will share these further general observations, for whatever you think they may be worth:

1. Directors certainly can rely upon those with specialized training and expertise in arriving at business judgments. However, whether that reliance is justified here would depend upon the relevant education and experience of the treasurer/finance committee members/property manager, their actual representations concerning their relevant education/experience, and the other Board members' due diligence in attempting to verify those representations. If none of the treasurer/finance committee members/property manager had dealt with matters of such complexity before, then they should have acknowledged that and at the very minimum have recommended soliciting the opinions of those WITH the appropriate level of education and experience.

2. Even assuming that no legal grounds exist to impute liability to the Board for its past failures to pick up on the financial irregularities that had occurred over an extended period of time (until you ultimately uncovered them), once the Board members HAD actual knowledge of those financial irregularities, they then had a duty to correct them.

3. If Association counsel has advised the Board but obliquely concerning its present obligations -- i.e., make restitution based on "general equitable principles" -- the Board might be well-served if it secured a second legal opinion or -- at a minimum -- asked its existing counsel to provide it with more specific guidance.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'll get a copy of our policy tomorrow to review the D&O coverage language.

Correcting the errors has been discussed at 3-4 open board meetings. BUT I don't think most Owners understand the issue. A few do and one, my spouse, want sit corrected and has talked about legal action against the board & the MC. Some of the errors are theirs and these errors privileged the Commercial Owner for years. Some errors were made by the first attorney and budget specialist of the first MC who submitted the original budgets to the DRE (now Bur. of RE in CA).

As noted, no one wants restitution and our GC didn't advise that we seek it. His main opinion is that we should "endeavor to correct any patently wrong attribution of expenses to an [Area] when this has been discovered, an which cannot be reasonably disputed." But the DRE budgets were so difficult for his firm that he advised us to get an opinion from the original budget preparer or an independent one to get an opinion about whether any anything was disputable.

$3,200 later, a CCIM, a real estate budget specialist, was able to calculate certain electricity expenses and say with certainty how they should be divvied up among the 3 Areas with only one meter. He also had us get letters from the relevant vendors attesting to the shares of their contracts our 3 Areas consume. One contact is about $200,000/ann. and the Area that's been upcharged severely is paying 75% of it. But two different experts in that field, one our vendor, calculate that the Area uses only 34% of those services. This incorrect charge was due to our original MC and perpetuated through 2 others & our current firm.

The incorrect electricity split was due to the original budget preparer. The Area again most disadvantaged was paying 55.55% of electricity instead of 32%. Now, our GC doesn't have these final number along with others. They had written, if & when there was no doubt about these overcharges, "...action by the board to correct these mistakes is warranted in our view."

In defense of earlier boards, they only saw financials based on "one area," with none of the details of the three AREAS. The three areas weren't displayed until '11. Our first treasurer for 4-5 years was a CPA but knew nothing about governing docs or, in fact, reserves. But directors for a long time deferred to his "analyses."

I think, James, that I'm going to try to press the Board in Executive session with the notion there's a very real possibility of a lawsuit if we do not correct these obvious errors. I also want to ask the board to release to Owners our attorneys' opinion. And I may ask that we seek a follow-up opinion from our GC now that there truly is no doubt about the errors. Perhaps they'll use stronger language is an update opinion.

Thank you again for your illuminating thoughts on this topic, James. I have to say that one problem with trying to correct it is that it's so hard to grasp that people's eyes glaze over (like any remaining readers we may have here!)
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 08/09/2016 9:34 AM
Linda, to give you some idea of what the statute of limitations may be in Colorado, see http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorado-law/colorado-civil-statute-of-limitations-laws.html . Looks like one to three years, in general. Virginia looks similar: http://research.lawyers.com/virginia/virginia-statutes-of-limitations.html .

There is a section of something called the "Restatement of Property (Servitudes)," focused on community associations such as HOAs. The Restatement is a compilation of case law nationwide. It summarizes trends in the courts and is regularly updated. The Restatement puts a lot of emphasis on how the courts do not like to penalize volunteer directors, lest members in general be deterred from volunteering to serve. The courts do not want to deter, given how Declarations make it extremely difficult to legally dissolve most HOAs; someone has to run the place; directors have enormous legal responsibilities and yet are unpaid. I believe it would take a lot of recklessness. with a truly devastating effect on a HOA, to get a judge or jury to impose even one dollar of personal liability on a director. If a member's HOA grounds look halfway decent, then suing in court will not likely win any punishment of a director except public embarrassment for being named and possibly found to be not following the governing documents.

I think BobD can cite a case or two where liability was imposed personally on a volunteer director. I have yet to see one.

Augustin, Thank you for the link - lot of helpful information there.

Sad if the statute of limitations is at most 3 years. When I discovered improper accounting and tried to get the MC to make corrections, nothing was ever done. I suppose I should have sued way back then (15 years ago) but was told "right or wrong, mistakes were made" but they didn't want to lay blame. Promised that going forward they - board and MC - would make sure the accounting was done properly and the different types of homes would have their monies applied correctly. But that hasn't been done and has only gotten worse to the tune of $335K now being short in one class of homeowner.

I don't want to see anyone penalized. There is an easy fix since the money is there - just in the wrong bank accounts. It would only be necessary to make the required transfers and explain to the homeowners why the adjustments are necessary. It's not like I'm just coming up with $335k off the top of my head. Over the years, I've tracked the activity in the bank account and listed everything in spreadsheets that show when and why the errors occurred.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Kerry - you're correct in stating that most people don't understand the budgets/accounting issues.

It's easy for homeowners to complain about a fence that is falling down or a bench that needs painted - they can see those things easily with their own eyes. But the issues you're taking about require a lot of work before even coming to a conclusion.

My eyes aren't glazing over because I'm dealing with the same kind of issues - differing levels of assessments that are not being properly allocated.

Do you have any kind of worksheets or documentation that show how you came to your conclusion on the numbers?

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG11 on 08/10/2016 5:24 PM
//mal-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

mis-feasance = 'business judgment rule' applies

non-feasance = liability (no insurance coverage)

simple

I will wager your D & O insurance policy agrees - read the actual policy, not merely the 'declaration page'.//

I'll take that wager. I can't speak to what the law and practices are in South Carolina, but in Florida D&O policies come in varying shapes and sizes.

Just like one may purchase from among a spectrum of narrow to broad vehicle liability coverages for oneself and one's family, the same market dynamic applies to D&O policies. Coverages, exclusions, deductibles, definitions of what constitutes a "claim," and sundry other terms and conditions are anything but cookie-cutter.

please email { [email protected] } me a copy of ANY policy which covers mal and/or non feasance

I will IMMEDIATELY reply with a wire transfer of $100 via paypal

if you can not, you are expected to do the same

?10 day clock?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 08/10/2016 8:47 PM
It would only be necessary to make the required transfers and explain to the homeowners why the adjustments are necessary. It's not like I'm just coming up with $335k off the top of my head. Over the years, I've tracked the activity in the bank account and listed everything in spreadsheets that show when and why the errors occurred.

Brava! If at all possible, you need to be a Director-Treasurer. Make the issue above the main theme of your campaign for same!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimW17 on 07/29/2016 9:34 AM
Virginia statutes protect volunteer directors from personal liability for their improper actions as a director.
My question is "does this apply to those not on the board at the time the issue is raised, but were a board member at the time the issue happened.

Jim,

Our D&O policy covers:

1. any actual or alleged act, error, omission, misstatement, misleading statement or breach of duty
or neglect by, including any Personal Injury or Publishers Liability, or any matter asserted
against, an Insured Person in his or her capacity as such;
2. any actual or alleged act, error, omission, misstatement, misleading statement or breach of duty
or neglect by, including any Personal Injury or Publishers Liability, the Insured Organization;
or
3. any matter asserted against an Insured Person solely by reason of his or her status as such.

Insured Person means any natural person who was, is or becomes an Employee, duly elected or
appointed member of the board of directors, officer, member of the board of trustees, member of the
board of managers, member of the board of regents, member of the board of governors, or a functional
equivalent thereof, member of a duly constituted committee, or volunteers of the Insured Entity or any
Executive Officer.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Tim,

please reread the policy carefully searching for the following 'disclaimer': unless willfully ..........

you are NOT covered for mal or non feasance EXCEPT for legal defense ~

ask your agent to put such coverage SPECIFICALLY in writing AS AN AGENT FOR THE COMPANY

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
ps.

? want a piece of the action ?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
http://www.novickgroup.com/pdf/D&O%20Myths.pdf

The key phrase is ......good faith service......

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
http://www.agcs.allianz.com/assets/PDFs/risk%20insights/AGCS-DO-infopaper.pdf

The key section is .....What is not covered?.....

JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Mr. PitA,

It is apparent to me that you never received enough attention as a child or as an adult (assuming you are an adult).

You are free to continue in your delusions if you wish. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you know precious little about a number of the subjects on which you shown a propensity to pontificate.

Your links do NOT support your position at all; they actually support mine.

I will not be replying further to any of your posts as it is an utter waste of my time and energy.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
My suggestion to everyone else who may be interested in the subject is to contact an insurance agent with 20+ years of experience in representing HOAs and Condo associations and find out for yourselves.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
It is apparent that you have minimal, if any, reading comprehension.

The posted 'links' CLEARLY use the words '...acting in good faith...' which mal and non feaseance would NOT be.

Good luck with your opinion ... it is worth EXACTLY what mine is.

The exact wording (in 'legalese') of the policy itself WILL govern any claim.

One can, in fact, be 'guilty' of not performing ones Fiduciary Duty and be 'innocent' of malfeaseance.

One can not, in fact, be 'guilty' of not performing ones Fiduciary Duty without being 'guilty' of nonfeaseance.

mal = bad, evil, deliberate

mis = mistaken, erroneous, wrong

non = inaction, not performing, not

Insurance will NOT protect against knowing/evil/wrongful actions.

Insurance will NOT protect against knowing/deliberate non performance of ones duty.

Insurance WILL protect against honest errors and omissions made IN GOOD FAITH.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
however:

'most' D&O policies will provide for a legal defense regardless of coverage for resulting award

perhaps this is the 'bone of contention'
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG11 on 08/11/2016 11:52 AM
My suggestion to everyone else who may be interested in the subject is to contact an insurance agent with 20+ years of experience in representing HOAs and Condo associations and find out for yourselves.

Excellent advice.

then

READ THE ACTUAL POLICY

since

agents have been known to (in the words of Judge Judy) 'Puff'.

ps. my info is from 'the good hands' people who happen to insure my association

my involvement was as treasurer and chairman of the 'insurance committee' formed to overcome years of incompetence by previous well meaning but incompetent 'boards'
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
James

PITA called you out to provide information/proof versus preach insurance sales. Care to respond to him?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/11/2016 8:32 AM
Tim,

please reread the policy carefully searching for the following 'disclaimer': unless willfully ..........

you are NOT covered for mal or non feasance EXCEPT for legal defense ~

ask your agent to put such coverage SPECIFICALLY in writing AS AN AGENT FOR THE COMPANY

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

John,

I never said we were.

Since Jim is in VA, I thought he would be interested in what another VA Association had.

I was simply replying to Jim and specifying what is covered under our policy.
If it's not in the definition I took from our policy, it would be logical to expect it not to be covered.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
aaaaaah ....

breach of (fiduciary) duty



may cover the legal defense ..... innocent until proven guilty ... etc

but

may NOT cover any monetary damages awarded
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
//PITA called you out to provide information/proof versus preach insurance sales. Care to respond to him?//

LOL. Not sure how anything I posted can possibly be construed as "preach[ing] insurance sales," and responding to uneducated and/or ill-informed anonymous posters on a message board is not the highest and best use of my time. Believe whatever and whomever you wish, sir. This is America, and anyone is free to cling to whatever benighted beliefs they wish.

Having said that, the fact of the matter is that accurate information on this subject is readily accessible to anyone with some modicum of intelligence.

See, e.g., the following pertinent excerpts from a comprehensive article on the subject authored by a highly esteemed community association law firm:

//Directors and officers insurance policies are designed for a variety of claims alleging harm attributable to the governance or management of an association. The terms of any particular policy may make its coverage both broader and narrower than claims against boards. Policies may be broader by covering claims against the association itself as well as staff and volunteers other than board members. Policies are narrower because they do not cover all types of claims against boards. Most significantly, D&O insurance does not cover bodily injury or property damage claims.

Unfortunately, D&O POLICIES ARE NOT STANDARDIZED AND TEND TO BE COMPLEX. The discussion here highlights the principal features. BECAUSE POLICIES DIFFER SO MUCH AMONG INSURERS....

***

If one had only five minutes to read a D&O policy, the time would be well spent examining the list of exclusions. In the exclusions section the broad coverage granted elsewhere can be whittled away. BECAUSE SPECIFIC EXCLUSIONS VARY SUBSTANTIALLY AMONG POLICIES, lining up the exclusions of different policies for a side-by-side comparison is a critical step in choosing among them. Clarifying the exclusions is also the first step to asking the insurer to eliminate unacceptable items.//

http://www.hindmansanchez.com/resources/article/anatomy-do-policy/

I trust that the foregoing is sufficient to disabuse you of the simplistic notions advanced by Mr. PitA. Note well that the assertions made by Mr. PitA aren't even noted in the article -- must less embraced as a universal standard.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG11 on 08/13/2016 7:51 AM
http://www.hindmansanchez.com/resources/article/anatomy-do-policy

LOL - Law firm(at that time - Orten & Hindman)that instructed our board to take the homeowners to court to force a declaration amendment. Some of these lawyers helped write the CCIOA statutes.

And they lost the court case because they didn't follow CCIOA relating to the specific percentages that applied at the time.

However, our HOA didn't get a refund from them for their huge fees
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Linda, thank you for sharing that information. By any chance do you have any links that talk about this suit further? I think HOA boards should always ask their attorneys to explain their legal actions until they make sense as far as the gov docs and statutes are concerned. Too often I see signs of churning by our HOA attorney (contrasting greatly with my previous two HOA attorneys).
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
I only have the hard copy. Is there a way to look that up online?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 08/13/2016 9:30 AM
I only have the hard copy. Is there a way to look that up online?

It's possible. Many state courts now have a good deal of lawsuit docs available to the public online for free, or at least some kind of synopsis. Can you give the year, the plaintiff, and the defendant (if the rules allow here)?
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
I would have to dig up the paperwork (in storage) for the specifics. But the year was 2001
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Linda, don't sweat it. I will see if I can turn it up with the year and attorneys' names. Thanks again.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
If you do find something, can you let me know?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Linda, sure. I will seek a pdf file and attach. Have a nice weekend.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
another illustration:

https://www.travelers.com/business-insurance/management-professional-liability/private-non-profit/community-homeowners.aspx

there are many, many more
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
From the Virginia Non-Stock Corporation Act:

§ 13.1-870. General standards of conduct for directors.

A. A director shall discharge his duties as a director, including his duties as a member of a committee, in accordance with his good faith business judgment of the best interests of the corporation.

B. Unless a director has knowledge or information concerning the matter in question that makes reliance unwarranted, a director is entitled to rely on information, opinions, reports or statements, including financial statements and other financial data, if prepared or presented by:

1. One or more officers or employees of the corporation whom the director believes, in good faith, to be reliable and competent in the matters presented;

2. Legal counsel, public accountants, or other persons as to matters the director believes, in good faith, are within the person's professional or expert competence; or

3. A committee of the board of directors of which the director is not a member if the director believes, in good faith, that the committee merits confidence.

C. A director is not liable for any action taken as a director, or any failure to take any action, if he performed the duties of his office in compliance with this section.

IMO,

C. refers to compliance with A.

'good faith' business judgment would NOT include mal or non feasance

NO insurance will indemnify against mal feasance

MOST insurance will indemnify against mis feasance

? non feasance ? a moot point as almost impossible to prove ?
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 08/13/2016 9:25 AM
Linda, thank you for sharing that information. By any chance do you have any links that talk about this suit further? I think HOA boards should always ask their attorneys to explain their legal actions until they make sense as far as the gov docs and statutes are concerned. Too often I see signs of churning by our HOA attorney (contrasting greatly with my previous two HOA attorneys).

Augustin - I've located the hard copy of that 2001 case where Orten-Hindman was the attorney for the board of our association. Without listing any identifying information, here is the judge's order:

THIS MATTER came before the Court on July 10, 2001, for a hearing on Petition for Court Approval of Amendments to Declaration Pursuant to C.R.S. #38-33.3-217(7) ("Petition")

C.R.S. #38-33.3-217(7)(e)(II) authorizes this Court to grant the Petition if it finds that "[n]o more than thirty-three percent of the unit owners entitled ... have filed written objections ..." The Court finds that 120 written objections to the Petition were filed prior to the hearing, and that this number represents more than thirty-three percent of the unit owners.

The Court further finds that this case should be dismissed as requested by objectors Txxxx and Bxxxxxxx. The declarations of the Xxxx Homeowners Association which were in existence on June 30, 1992 contained a specific conflict with the provisions of $38-33.3-217(7), and therefore the declaration which requires a 75% approval of any change to the declaration controls as opposed to 67% permitted by said statute.

For the forgoing reasons, the Court hereby DENIES the Petition for Court Approval of Amendments to Declaration Pursuant to C.R.S. #38-33.3-217(7)
................................................................................................................................
The above is exactly as written by the court with capitals in certain places - I did not capitalize anything myself.

Augustin - would you have a link where I can find this case online?

I would like to be able to provide it to other owners that have wrong ideas of what happened. The current board president who has only lived here ~ three years is spreading incorrect information about this case to suit his purposes in trying to get another amendment.

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