Can a president ask the management company for all records for past year and take them home

They should be able to copy all the records and take them home. Since your BOD is very new, and if you check your docs, you as a Member should have access to all your records except Owners personal information, client attorney privileged material, contract prices and things of this nature.

Actually, members should have access to all signed contracts.

Bids are typically not available. However, once the contract is signed, the contract itself should be available to members.

See: FL 720.303(5) if in an HOA or FL 718.111(12)number 16 if in a condominium.

Dana,

You are correct that I do not know what is in Dons' documents.
That is why I pointed Don to the statutes and provided the links to them.

You are the one that said that contract prices could not be available.
That statement, in my understanding of the statutes, would be an incorrect statement.

Dana,

I would expect that the rules would be what records could be inspected would mirror that of the statutes.

The rules can't be in conflict with the statute (if they are, then the statute is to be complied with). Per the statute:

(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.—The official records shall be maintained within the state for at least 7 years and shall be made available to a parcel owner for inspection or photocopying within 45 miles of the community or within the county in which the association is located within 10 business days after receipt by the board or its designee of a written request. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community or, at the option of the association, by making the records available to a parcel owner electronically via the Internet or by allowing the records to be viewed in electronic format on a computer screen and printed upon request.

(4) OFFICIAL RECORDS.—The association shall maintain each of the following items, when applicable, which constitute the official records of the association:

i) A current copy of all contracts to which the association is a party, including, without limitation, any management agreement, lease, or other contract under which the association has any obligation or responsibility. Bids received by the association for work to be performed must also be considered official records and must be kept for a period of 1 year.

Dana, you haven't answered my question on another thread:

Are you now serving or have you previously served on the Board or in a committee for an HOA/COA?
If yes, what positions did you hold?

Dana,

Did you not read my full response?

The adopted rules can not be in conflict with the statue.
If they are, then the statute must be complied with.

Therefore, I would expect that any adopted rule/regulations that identify what records may be expected to be in compliance with the statute. The statute specifies not only specify what the official records will contain but those records that can be denied inspection.

Dana,

I understand that. I've read that section of the statute as well.

You don't seem to understand that the statute also says what records may not be seen and that any such rule would need to comply with State law. If they do not, then the statute applies. And the Statute says that members are entitled to inspect the records of the Association with the following exceptions:

1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502 and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including, but not limited to, a record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney’s express direction which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association and which was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or which was prepared in anticipation of such litigation or proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or proceedings.
2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a parcel.
3. Personnel records of association or management company employees, including, but not limited to, disciplinary, payroll, health, and insurance records. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “personnel records” does not include written employment agreements with an association or management company employee or budgetary or financial records that indicate the compensation paid to an association or management company employee.
4. Medical records of parcel owners or community residents.
5. Social security numbers, driver license numbers, credit card numbers, electronic mailing addresses, telephone numbers, facsimile numbers, emergency contact information, any addresses for a parcel owner other than as provided for association notice requirements, and other personal identifying information of any person, excluding the person’s name, parcel designation, mailing address, and property address. Notwithstanding the restrictions in this subparagraph, an association may print and distribute to parcel owners a directory containing the name, parcel address, and all telephone numbers of each parcel owner. However, an owner may exclude his or her telephone numbers from the directory by so requesting in writing to the association. An owner may consent in writing to the disclosure of other contact information described in this subparagraph. The association is not liable for the disclosure of information that is protected under this subparagraph if the information is included in an official record of the association and is voluntarily provided by an owner and not requested by the association.
6. Any electronic security measure that is used by the association to safeguard data, including passwords.
7. The software and operating system used by the association which allows the manipulation of data, even if the owner owns a copy of the same software used by the association. The data is part of the official records of the association.

Really, how well did that line of thinking work our for the FEDs? Fed Law says you can't posses pot with out a stamp, and we ain't givin any out! Colorado says, come on in boy and girls, sell your pot here, screw them FEDs. Lets turn this into a multi billion dollar industry! I KNOW HOW THAT TURNED OUT!

So what happens when you have two State laws that contradict each other? Don't know, Don't care. Until you or I go to that State, file the case and see who wins, everything else is pure speculation!

No problem.

Yes Kerry. I have been saying that exact same thing, throughout this thread. For those that think your docs can not over ride your State laws, I can not speak for your State, HOA, City, County or Local Ordinances.

Now, let me tell you about my State Law concerning Condo HOAs. If you see the following phrase that starts your State Law, AND WE HAVE MANY, then you need to refer back to your Documents. EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED in the condominium instruments, the provisions of this subsection shall apply

You see, that is where the problem is Kerry, we all seem to think that just because it is labeled "HOA", everything someone says, applies to all HOAs, and that is simply not true.

Richard is right, Dana.

Many of us are aware that state statutes might say: "EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED in the condominium instruments, the provisions of this subsection shall apply," which means we must refer & defer to our docs about certain specific topics.

But that is not the language used in Tim's long FL citation re: Owners inspection rights. And it is not the language used in CA. And it probably is not the language used in VA re: Owners' inspection rights.

But I'm curious Don: Are you or someone else concerned that the President is taking records home? Why? Isn't the prez taking copies of records home? What records is s/he taking?

I think Sheila's right. It doesn't look like the prez has actually removed them yet.

I'm a director and I've read certain original records near the PM's office as I didn't relay want copies.

I also wonder why the records aren't amiable online for the president to review either in the form of minutes or financials.

FL law states: "The association may adopt REASONABLE [my emph.] written rules governing the ... RECORDS TO BE INSPECTED." Without amazing distortions of the English language, We may not interpret this to mean that the HOA can decide that Owners are prohibited from copying certain materials that, per the stature that Tim cited, specifically says that Owners can possess, e.g.,:

"i) A current copy of all contracts to which the association is a party, including, without limitation, any management agreement, lease, or other contract under which the association has any obligation or responsibility. Bids received by the association for work to be performed must also be considered official records and must be kept for a period of 1 year."

Nothing could be clearer that Owners have the legal right in FL (and other states too) to copy many records. Not ONLY would it be illegal to forbid Owners from copying these, it also would be UNREASONABLE.

Sorry, Don; hope we didn't chase you away. Replies to Sheila's & my questions above my guide some of us in actually answering your clear question.

Dana wrote on 7/29, 7:56, but should have finished the sentence to read: "As a member of your HOA, not on the BOD, according to your State, your BOD, can, restrict certain documents to be viewed, or copied"....unless higher level documents, e.g., state statutes, list them as available to Owners.

You know, JohnC? I'm not so sure. If this president is new to the Board, s/he might just be trying to catch up on what has occurred in the recent past.

But I still think most would be available online. It could be a witch hunt though and I'd never let anyone take originals out of the office where they're stored.

Say, Don, are you on the board?

Our MC/Accountant would never have all the records in the first place. Any records they did have we would have access to or a copy of. Since the MC is a sub-contractor to the HOA, whatever records they did possess would either be theirs already or ones we request they keep. The MC gave us a copy of our financials once a month and that is what we based our meetings on. The collections were kept only amongst the board while the expense reports were distributed to everyone.

My question is: What records do you think your MC has or should have? It may not be all one thinks they may have or even do. It maybe out of perspective or reality of what the MC may have as a record. You may be surprised that they may not have an accurate copy of all the membership names/addresses. That is the Secretaries job in our HOA. There are other records along those lines you may want to define first before requesting records. They may not exist or be responsible for.

How were election materials and billings sent to Owners if the board or MC didn't have all Owners' mailing addresses?

We never sent out election materials nor bills. Elections were held at the Annual meeting. No need in sending billing as it is understood you pay dues. The pay box was located at the mailbox/front entrance. If you did not pay, we had a 6 months lien policy. So at 6 months one got a certified letter notifying them of a lien placement if not paid up. Which is when I would do the work on locating the real owner.

We knew all the addresses and lot #'s. It's the owner's names that weren't guaranteed. We required a check and the Lot# be put on each check. (Unless they set up automatic withdraw from our bank). It was not assured that the name/address on that check was the real owner. Someone else could have been paying the dues. Using the old "Death and Taxes" are assured... I always went to the Tax Assessors office to confirm.

Not sure where you're getting your info, Dana; your statement is rather sweeping. But other than Melissa, I haven't seen any issues in the few years I've been a member here with Owners' addresses not being available to the Board or the Prop. mgr. I think most of us are well aware that MC's offer an array of services from bare-bones to 2 or more mgrs full-time onsite to whom Boards delegate a whole lot.

In CA, in fact, ballots must be sent to Owners in the mail. We also must send violation notices to the address Owners choose to receive HOA mail via US mail. So we need their mailing addresses. In addition, about 30% of our Owners are landlords. Don't think they'd appreciate being forced to bring a check to the "pay box" on the front porch. CA also does require that Owners' mailing addresses and property addresses be available for Owners upon written request.

I respectfully disagree ... a new BOD can look up any info via County Records office information. Also, it is the BOD and NOT the Management Company who is ultimately responsible for any HOA. Please keep in mind the management company works for the BOD. If a Management Company screws up ... the BOD is responsible for fixing and potentially needs to look for another company.

DonM16

Any member of an HOA can ask for any records allowed by law (including BOD members). And most states insure under their laws that financial information is in essence "public" information for HOA members. Everyone who is a member puts their personal MONEY in the pot so why should they not have access to any information regarding the money they paid? If they paid money and were provided records ... why should they not be able to have that information in their personal home located in the HOA?

Very well said! Up in till 4 months ago, our BOD was not even on their own e-mail contact list, from their own Official HOA Website Contact page.

It really does no good to have your BOD, provide what is represented as their e-mail address, just to have it go to a PMC, that makes the decision if the BOD, needs to be informer of the issue or not. They got spanked for this very process, at our last meeting.