💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Is there anything that requires a board to follow their annual budget budget?
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/28/2016 10:37 AM
Is there anything that requires a board to follow their annual budget budget?

Yes, their members that elected to serve. I am sure that your Instruments must have a guideline for your BOD, on how to proceed with adopting a budget. In the same breath, if your HOA is broke, then it would be impossible to follow a budget, with no funds.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Here is a definition of an HOA budget (found online):
"An HOA operating budget is a projection of the money needed by the association to cover its operating expenses and provide adequate reserves for repair and replacement of the elements of the property the HOA maintains."

As quoted, a budget is just an estimate of income and spending, it would be a rare association that met it's budget exactly. Since predicting the future with a high degree of accuracy is beyond most of us, actual spending can vary from the budget depending on circumstances that arise, primarily unexpected expenses. Higher than anticipated delinquencies can also affect budget vs. actual.

To Dana's point, if the members feel that the board is not handling finances responsibly, they can address at the next election.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 07/28/2016 11:41 AM
To Dana's point, if the members feel that the board is not handling finances responsibly, they can address at the next election.

After reading my first response and then yours, I guess I should have elaborated a little more about the Membership. I have read several threads on this site, as well as others. There seems to be many issues that will effect the HOA budget.

1. Poor Planing.
2. Unforeseen Expenditures.
3. Over Spending.
4. Refusal to Foreclose / Collect Assessments or Fines.
5. Drop in Dues, due to foreclosures.

Etc, etc. I guess without knowing why a BOD does not stick to its planned budget, the OPs question, can only be answered with mostly speculation. There are many factors that the BOD can not control, and if two or three hit at the same time, it could be devastating to the Budget, BOD as well as the Community. If LindaS27, can give some detail about her situation, then I am sure her responses, will be in much greater detail.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, Dana, I agree. We need more about Linda's budget and her specific concerns.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Linda,

Keep in mind that the budget is a guideline, not an absolute. Individual line items, for various reasons, may come in under or over budget.
Hopefully the there is enough line items that come in under budget to cover those line items that go over budget.

Some things that can throw a budget out of wack are:

Missed or late assessment payments.
Weather related issues (heavy snowfall, storm damage to trees, etc.)
Legal actions (initiated by or brought against the Association)
Members concerns
Vandalism that is below the insurance deductible

For example, In our Association we are currently (with half a year to go):

$587 over budget in snow removal
$800 over budget for tree work (and we had to approve another $1,200 worth of work this past week)
We are $1,100 under budget for our audit (as we shopped for CPAs)

Additional storm damage or any snow removal requirements prior to January will only put us further behind.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
The financials are being manipulated - to gain an advantage or simply because they don't know what they are doing, I'm not sure.

I understand about variances, but this goes beyond that. The board purchased "smart controllers" for the irrigation system that would calibrate the sprinklers to lower water costs. The cost was $70K (after a 25% rebate). In our newsletter, they stated they were able to pay for this "with budget surpluses from the previous year and won't have to borrow or raise dues."

The 2015 financials showed net income of $18K which would actually be a net loss if corrections were made. For example, $13K for trees and shrubs that should have been paid from operating funds was instead paid out of reserves. They do this all the time - this year fence repairs($4K)were paid from the reserve account. They can then brag about how they are under budget and doing such a good job.

When I reminded them of these facts, they stated that "the controllers will show as a variance in the operating budget and will be paid from carry over funds from prior years. This statement is also false!

I've searched several sites and can find a lot on making and approving budgets, but could not find anything about keeping to the budget.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Linda,

It does sound like your Board is pulling a fast one (or have pulled several fast ones).

Per this article from 2010, Colorado law specifies that "unless the declaration provides otherwise, any surplus funds, after common expenses and regular reserve contributions have been paid, shall be returned to the unit owners or credited to them to offset future regular assessments." However, as I said, this is from 2010 and laws may have changed.

When was your Associations last audit?

Our Board learned a lot from having an audit done. The CPA pointed out what we could do, what we could not do and how to correct what we had been doing. If your governing documents require audits, start a movement to ask for one.

My concern, and I suspect your concern as well, would be are the reserves funded and to what extent. When was your Associations last reserve study? Studies should be redone about every 5 years. If it's been awhile, you may want to gather support and ask that one gets done.

If your board isn't listening and spending willy–nilly, you may need to gather support and replace the Board (through a recall or regular elections) with those who will be more prudent with the Associations money. Otherwise, you may be looking at a special assessment sometime in the future.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Tim, Excellent research! Could you provide the Title/Section of that 2010 law?

The last audit was for the FYE 2014 (completed 3/20/15) However, the CPA didn't follow our declaration (re restricted reserves)when reporting as has happened in prior years. Typically, auditors follow the prior year's audit, so if that audit was missing some information, the errors just continues on and on.

I have recently requested information on the 2015 audit and was informed that it had not been completed. And I do not see in any minutes the approval of the audit although RFPs were sent out in February 2016.

Reserve studies have been done in 1999-2004-2009 which were all okay. The latest reserve study was done in 2014 and was the basis for raising dues. There were numerous errors in these reports which was relayed to the board. However, they ignored that information and still attempted a dues increase (two meetings - Nov & Dec - for a vote failed due to lack of quorum). They announced that this increase would still be requested in 2016. Because I persisted that the reserve studies had to be corrected before asking for any dues increase, they are now in the process of having NEW reserve studies done - approved at the March board meeting for $2,900.

I inquired why not just have the previous reserve company make the corrections? They stated the company was not being receptive to them. Odd since we had used this same company for several years with no problems until the 2014 studies requested by a NEW board and NEW management company.

In the meantime, because of those errors in the reserve studies, contributions to the general reserves have been lowered by $6K. The financials show that this extra money is being used to stock the lake for sport fishing ($5K) and another $1K is being budget for community events.

Logically, it would seem that contribution to reserves would go up in time due to inflation unless something was sold and/or converted for a lesser expense. This board wants to fill in the pool because it is so expensive to operate. However, nothing has been changed with our assets. So why did the contribution drop from $42K/yr to $36K/yr? As I pointed out to them, the concrete sidewalks were omitted from the study ($240K over 30 years and with inflation, by now probably around $300K/yr)

These errors just continue - along with misinformation in the newsletters. And no corrections are ever made.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/30/2016 8:20 AM
Tim, Excellent research! Could you provide the Title/Section of that 2010 law?

Well the current law is C.R.S. 38-33.3-314 which states:

38-33.3-314. Surplus funds
Unless otherwise provided in the declaration, any surplus funds of the association remaining after payment of or provision for common expenses and any prepayment of or provision for reserves shall be paid to the unit owners in proportion to their common expense liabilities or credited to them to reduce their future common expense assessments.

Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/30/2016 8:20 AM
The last audit was for the FYE 2014 (completed 3/20/15) However, the CPA didn't follow our declaration (re restricted reserves)when reporting as has happened in prior years. Typically, auditors follow the prior year's audit, so if that audit was missing some information, the errors just continues on and on.

Is there a reason you changed auditors?

You will also want to see the auditors management letter.
This gives more information and is not normally included with the audit released to the membership (but some Associations may do that as well).

Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/30/2016 8:20 AM

I inquired why not just have the previous reserve company make the corrections? They stated the company was not being receptive to them. Odd since we had used this same company for several years with no problems until the 2014 studies requested by a NEW board and NEW management company.

It could be the new MC wanted to use their reserve specialist or the Board/MC was not forthcoming with info for the analyst to do their job, or just some personality conflicts.

Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/30/2016 8:20 AM

These errors just continue - along with misinformation in the newsletters. And no corrections are ever made.

As I said earlier in the thread, you may need to gather support and replace the Board through a recall or regular elections.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Tim,

I researched 38-33.3-314 Surplus Funds. Unfortunately, that particular article does not apply to our HOA.
Under 38-33.3-117 Applicability to preexisting common interest communities.
Only certain sections apply to HOAs created before 7/1/1992 making it more difficult to actually figure out which apply. As far as I can figure out (from 2015) there 73 sections of which 36 (49%) apply to our association - created in 1973.
However, according to our board president, we are exempt from CCIOA entirely.

Not sure why the auditor change. Even if you go to all the board meetings, certain pertinent information is not included in the minutes. And I know that a lot of decisions are made outside of the monthly board meetings but are not included in the minutes as required by law.
Seems this board is not wanting to follow is the prior board's ways even though they vetted things over several years and had things running pretty smoothly. For example, this board changed asphalt companies with dire results. Almost every home (15) in my alley had damages from the work done Oct. 2015 by this new company. And several of us are still trying to make them follow up on promises to fix things.

Good idea about getting the auditor management letter. Will attempt that after I get the documents they are required to post but have not yet done. But no matter what the CPA engagement letter states, the audit should account for the different level of assessments and how our declaration states that part of the higher level is restricted. The audit report does not even mention that fact. It is a copy and paste explanation from previous years.

Clarification:
Reserve Study - Same company in 1999-2004-2009 and 2014 which had numerous errors
Instead of having the 2014 study corrected, a whole new study is being done in 2016 at a cost of $2,900.
Management Companies - Change in 2003-2011-2015
2003 change due to MC and Attorneys helping board take homeowners to court(2001)when amendment to declaration didn't pass
2011 change due retirement of MC agent and major increase in their costs
2015 change due huge errors in financials and their VP attempting to research and correct the discrepancies.
Board of Directors - Major change in 2013

Seems like all the major problems happened when the new board took over in 2013. They are out of control and just do whatever they want no matter what our declarations or the statutes require. They don't even know what those documents state. Or if they do, they lie about it to get their special agendas put through.

I'm trying to get specific statutes that I can quote to them showing where they are not in compliance.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Roger is from CO.
I haven't seem him post for awhile.
Hopefully he will see this and comment.

Tim
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
From what I've researched, the board gets its powers from the declaration and/or state statutes.

CCIOA 38-33.3-302(1)lists powers of the association which states ... "that the association, without specific authorization in the declaration may: a thru q" (list of 17 items).

The specific item I'm wondering about is 38-33.3-302(1)g: Cause additional improvements to be made as a part of the common elements

However, since our HOA was in existence pre CCIOA, items g-h-I and n do not apply to us. Would that mean that the board cannot make improvements on its own. Am I reading this correctly? That they do not have permission to do this.

A previous board member stated that those "controllers" are capital improvements and cannot be installed without a member vote for either a loan or dues increase. But he's not sure of the statute or attorney ruling related to that.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It would depend on what your governing documents say.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
There is no mention of these specific powers (except by vote)

"Special Assessments for Capital Improvements" In addition to the monthly assessments authorized above, the association may levy in any calendar year, a special assessment applicable to that year only, for the purpose of defraying, in whole or in part, the cost of any construction or reconstruction, unexpected repair or replacement of a described capital improvement upon the common area, including the necessary fixtures and personal property related thereto, provided that any such assessment shall have the assent of two-thirds (2/3) if the votes of each class of members who are vo9ting in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called for this purpose, written notice of which shall be sent to all members not less than 30 days nor more than 60 days in advance of the meeting setting forth the purpose of the meeting.

LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Previous Post

"Special Assessments for Capital Improvements" (This is in both the declaration and in the by-laws)

Also

“Purpose and Powers of the Association” (This is in the Articles of Incorporation)
(D) Borrow Money, and with the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of each class of members mortgage, pledge, deed in trust, or hypothecate any or all of its real or personal property as security for money borrowed or debts incurred.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Linda

I was in one HOA in MA with 175 owners (25 standalone homes, 40 some odd 3-4 townhouse per building, valued at about $400K per unit). The BOD went after a $25K to $32K special assessment per owner/unit. A long, complex story but they did such a good job of explaining why and what, that over 85% of the owners agreed to it. There were several unhappy owners that banded together and kept it tied up the courts for about a year and that was with strings being pulled to move it forward in the court system.

One thing often debated/argued is when a planned/budgeted repair item comes up and some want to expand the scope of it like expand the clubhouse when re-roofing it. To me that would be a Capital Improvement and depending on the leeway a BOD has, could quite often call for owners to vote on the expense if it exceeds a specific amount.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
John,

We had an out of control board thru the end of 2001. I think they got that way due to the bad advice of attorneys and MC. They also didn't follow budgets, let maintenance defer, had special agendas, etc. But the worse thing they did was to attempt to amend our declarations and when the homeowners voted it down, they took us to court to try to get it passed that way. The homeowners won! The attorneys misread the statutes as to procedures and percentages - even though they helped write that law. However, they still got paid for their poor service.

Outcome: Because things were run so badly for so many years, the new board asked for a $25/mo(over $100K/yr)increase along with an $800+ special assessment (almost $300K) in 2002 and both passed easily. Most homeowners here want things kept nice and are willing to pay the price as long as the board can justify their reasoning. After all the deferred maintenance was taken care of, the attorneys and MC were replace in 2003.

The board that took over at the end of 2001 mostly stayed the same until 2013.

Current problem: This new board is also out of control the same as the 2001 board and for a lot of the same reasons. This board is also attempting to amend our documents (no budget for the attorney costs along with extra printing and mailing costs). They just do what they want with no regard to the budget and explain it away with a bunch of lies. Most homeowners don't know the difference. Or don't care.

The worst thing is that their reasoning for the amendment has no basis in fact.

One glaring lie: (published in the newsletter)
"The current Declaration does not require transparency and disclosure. The HOA Board is not required to give notice of meetings nor provide an agenda. It’s not obligated to publish or disclose financial data. One of the central changes in the updated Declaration is full disclosure and transparency of all financial information."

The truth:
Our current governing documents state "the books, records, and papers of the association shall at all times, during reasonable business hours, be subject to inspection by any member...." etc.
Also Colorado statutes (CCIOA 38-33.3-xxx)goes even further giving homeowners more protection with specifics and deadlines for disclosures.

Other lies:
Even where our documents don't cover something specific (like the agendas)Colorado law does.
So according to this board president, if it's not in our declaration - it needs to be amended. This would mean that anytime a law was added that applied to our HOA, the documents would have to be amended.

The lies just go on and on and on!
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
@ LindaS27 (Colorado), maybe you can gather a handful of like-minded Members, and seek your own legal advice. It is sad when it seems your must go against your BOD over such matters, but sometimes it needs to be done, to better the community.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Dana,
Yes, that is probably what we will have to do. We have several owners who are really disgusted with this board and MC, but there are others who will not get involved stating "they are volunteers and we need them" and "it's a thankless job" True - but the lies go too far.

Before going to an attorney, there are several options to pursue:
1) Bring the errors to the MC and board's attention and ask for corrections to the financials
2) Quote the specific governing documents and/or statutes that are being violated
3) Ask them to correct the misinformation that they published in the newsletters
4) Request that the missing funds be repaid to the reserves
5) Submit an article (250 words or less)for publication in the newsletter
6) File a complaint against the MC with DORA/real estate division that regulates the management company and agent licenses
7) Meet with an attorney

The first four have mostly been done. Still pursing something on the necessity of the budget being followed.
So far they have given stupid excuses or outright lied about things. I'm pretty sure that they will reject any article we submit for the newsletter because they don't want the owners to know the truth. But if this happens, I will have the documentation to prove that they were informed of the many violations (with governing documents #s and Colorado statute #s) so they will have no excuses about not knowing the problems or the amounts involved.

Per new statutes (HB13-277) the MC puts their manager licenses at risk and DORA will investigate.

If that doesn't work, I've already located an attorney that specialized in HOAs but on the side of the homeowner

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I wonder, Linda, if your HOA's contract with the MC states that the latter is not obligated to follow any board directives that violate any state laws or your governing documents. Ours does. Might get some leverage that way.

If, for instance the MC wrote the allegedly inaccurate newsletter item about records inspections, that seems like a very serious problem to me.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Kerry - Good Point!

That is a step I forgot to add to the list. To AGAIN request that certain records be published.

When I was attempting to get records in July & August 2015 for ~ 8 month's worth of financials and minutes from the previous MC, I was informed by the board president that the emails and research being done by the MC was costing the HOA $125/hr. I have the response email from the MC saying there was no charge but that he could keep telling me that. (think the MC hit reply all by mistake)

He also told me "... if you need information that's not available by attendance at meetings, in the minutes, or thorough correspondence with the board, you will need to pay for it. I will also remind you that these kinds of disclosures are not a requirement of our governing documents nor by statute, since the HOA is exempt from CCIOA disclosure requirements...." HUGE LIES

A lot of the documents I requested from the MC were finally posted on our website as required by Colorado statute and I was in the process of getting a few more and working with the MC to research the financial errors when the MC was replaced. Not sure, but I think the board (president) got upset that the MC was doing this - even though he was the one that referred my email questions to the MC in the first place. At that time, he stated "I don't have access to financial documents, and even if I did, I wouldn't have much to offer. That being the case, I turned your emails over to our property management company, who is reviewing your inquires and is being CC'd with this reply."

So far, I have only asked for those documents that are required by CCIOA to be published on the website at no cost to the homeowner. I will give the new MC the opportunity to post these. Those that I still can't get, I will include in my request to view along with the other documents that I will have to pay for (CPA contract, MC contract, specific invoices, etc)

However, even if the MC contract does not state specifically "that they are not obligated to follow any board directives that violate any state laws or the governing documents" they would still be in violation because they are required to follow BOTH per statute.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Linda, make sure you check your State Law for enforcement of your Docs. This is what my State says I can do, as a Unit Owner.

" § 55-79.53. Compliance with condominium instruments.

A. The declarant, every unit owner, and all those entitled to occupy a unit shall comply with all lawful provisions of this chapter and all provisions of the condominium instruments. Any lack of such compliance shall be grounds for an action or suit to recover sums due, for damages or injunctive relief, or for any other remedy available at law or in equity, maintainable by the unit owners' association, or by its executive organ or any managing agent on behalf of such association, or, in any proper case, by one or more aggrieved unit owners on their own behalf or as a class action.

Now, every law suit does not have to be about the "Money". I can not speak for your State, but maybe you can just call a Local Attorney, and ask how much it is to file an "Injunction" to bring your BOD into compliance. Your CCRs cut both ways, with the same amount of force. They are generally easy to prove, when you have written contracts, guidelines or rules. Just an idea.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Dana - Thanks for the reminder!

Colorado has CCIOA 38-33.3-123 Enforcement - limitation.
(1) (a) If any unit owner fails to timely pay assessments or any money or sums due to the association, the association may require
reimbursement for collection costs and reasonable attorney fees and costs incurred as a result of such failure without the necessity of commencing a legal proceeding.
(b) For any failure to comply with the provisions of this article or any provision of the declaration, bylaws, articles, or rules and regulations, other than the payment of assessments or any money or sums due to the association, the association, any UNIT OWNER, or any class of unit owners adversely affected by the failure to comply may seek reimbursement for collection costs and reasonable attorney fees and costs incurred as a result of such failure to comply, without the necessity of commencing a legal proceeding.
(c) In any civil action to enforce or defend the provisions of this article or of the declaration, bylaws, articles, or rules and regulations, the court shall award reasonable attorney fees, costs, and costs of collection to the prevailing party.

................................................................................................................................

The later part of August 2015, I sent an email to the MC and board requesting records and the five different statutes that would be violated if they didn't comply. I also listed other violations:
38-33.3-209.5-1a - Maintain accurate and complete accounting records.
38-33.3-209.5-1b VIII - Adopt policies and procedures for dispute resolution between the association and the owners.
38-33.3-402 - Property managers risk loss of license for knowingly violating or knowingly directing others to violate CCIOA.

Also, stated that board members who willfully and knowingly refuse to comply with applicable laws are also at risk.
Under D & O Insurance or Indemnification, there is no coverage if the board acts “in bad faith” by knowingly disobeying the law and ignoring a direct request of a homeowner.

Nothing happened at this point because the board fired the MC.

As listed above, I want to follow the policies & procedures for dispute resolutions, but the association doesn't have one.

And if I make it as far as the attorney, it will be about money! There has been ~$350K that has been misappropriated from one of the reserve accounts.

They need to make an attempt to correct the financials including bank accounts. And quit with the lies!

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Linda:

First I would contend any BOD member stating your HOA is COMPLETELY exempt from CCIOA is a LIE. Per CCIOA:

C.R.S. 38-33.3-119 (2016)

38-33.3-119. Exception for small preexisting cooperatives and planned communities

If a cooperative or planned community created within this state before July 1, 1992, contains no more than ten units and is not subject to any development rights, or if its declaration limits its annual common expense liability to the amount specified in section 38-33.3-116 (1), then it is subject only to sections 38-33.3-105 to 38-33.3-107 unless the declaration is amended in conformity with applicable law and with the procedures and requirements of the declaration to take advantage of the provisions of section 38-33.3-120, in which case all the sections enumerated in section 38-33.3-117 apply to that planned community.

My question is 1) How large is your HOA? 2) If is is 10 units or less ... did your HOA amend to take advantage of the extra provisions under CCIOA?
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
@ LindaS27 (Colorado)WOW, your last statement may be the easiest way for you to handle your situation. It is a shame that you must go through this, along with the rest of your community.

"And if I make it as far as the attorney, it will be about money! There has been ~$350K that has been misappropriated from one of the reserve accounts. They need to make an attempt to correct the financials including bank accounts. And quit with the lies"!

Now, think about this, if you received this certified letter, while sitting on your BOD, and if done correctly, this will not even cost you a dime, over the cost of mailing the letter!

"Dear BOD, as we have been trying to receive information concerning our Associations monies for over a year now, you are leaving the Members of XYZ Association very little choice, on how to move forward concerning this matter. After 30 days of receiving this letter, if you can not provide the Membership with a detailed report of our finances, we will contact JOE Brown, our District Attorney, and see if we can set forth a motion, to have our finances, investigated by his office or to bring in a State Appointed Manager to supervise our finances, in till such time, as they can be turned back over to our Association".

I am quite sure, somebody is going to go straight into panic mode, and maybe start doing their job. Remember, just because it is a HOA, does not mean it is always a, "Civil Matter", when it comes to a Court of Law. Just a thought.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/30/2016 9:01 PM
Hi Linda:

First I would contend any BOD member stating your HOA is COMPLETELY exempt from CCIOA is a LIE. Per CCIOA:

C.R.S. 38-33.3-119 (2016)

38-33.3-119. Exception for small preexisting cooperatives and planned communities

If a cooperative or planned community created within this state before July 1, 1992, contains no more than ten units and is not subject to any development rights, or if its declaration limits its annual common expense liability to the amount specified in section 38-33.3-116 (1), then it is subject only to sections 38-33.3-105 to 38-33.3-107 unless the declaration is amended in conformity with applicable law and with the procedures and requirements of the declaration to take advantage of the provisions of section 38-33.3-120, in which case all the sections enumerated in section 38-33.3-117 apply to that planned community.

My question is 1) How large is your HOA? 2) If is is 10 units or less ... did your HOA amend to take advantage of the extra provisions under CCIOA?

Janet - Excellent reading of CCIOA

Yes, even if we were a small cooperative, we would still be subject to a handful of sections.

Our HOA consists of 345 stand alone homes in existence since 1973-1974. So even though we are pre CCIOA, we are still subject to those sections listed at 38-33.3-117. As I checked last year, this is 36 out of 73 sections (almost half) that apply to us.

I think these statutes are very difficult to understand. I can see where the board might be confused but the MC and its agents are required to know CCIOA in order to obtain their CAM licenses. However, both the MC and board need to know, at the very least, what is in our own documents - they are not that confusing nor lengthy.

And it is pertinent to know what is in our documents before attempting to amend them. And the board doesn't have a clue. They continue to spread misinformation (lies) about how urgent it is to amend our declaration. One example they give is a need to prevent kids from wading in the lake and from hitting a golf ball on the common area. These are already listed as a no-no in our "Declaration of Restrictions" effective 12/31/1986.

But it's not just the statutes and declarations - they try to manipulate everything that gets in their way - especially me!
They had one or two people(hand-picked)on the finance committee that were approving things (financials, annual audit, reserve studies, etc) that had serious errors. There were not even letting us know when these meetings were until another homeowner complained about the lack of transparency.

So they began publishing the monthly dates when the finance committee met(Saturdays before the Thursday board meetings)
I showed up at the January meeting and the only other person present was the board treasurer. There were several errors and I detailed those in an email to both the board and MC. No corrections have ever been made.

At the January board meeting, the president stated as it was the beginning of the new year, it was necessary to re appoint the members on all of the committees (this had never been done before) but he stated that the finance committee was no longer needed since the board was managing things so effectively. No mention of this in the minutes or in the newsletter. Another attempt to try and shut me up!

So at the March board meeting, I spoke up during the homeowner forum to mention problems with the latest financials. The board president stated that they were not going to hear those issues and if I wanted to discuss financials, I would have to be put on the agenda. He just makes things up as it suits his ego.

Previously the newsletter has something "from the board". Beginning this year, the article states "from the president's pen" along with his name and his picture. First time in over 40 years for something like this. What an ego!
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/31/2016 4:34 AM
@ LindaS27 (Colorado)WOW, your last statement may be the easiest way for you to handle your situation. It is a shame that you must go through this, along with the rest of your community.

"And if I make it as far as the attorney, it will be about money! There has been ~$350K that has been misappropriated from one of the reserve accounts. They need to make an attempt to correct the financials including bank accounts. And quit with the lies"!

Now, think about this, if you received this certified letter, while sitting on your BOD, and if done correctly, this will not even cost you a dime, over the cost of mailing the letter!

"Dear BOD, as we have been trying to receive information concerning our Associations monies for over a year now, you are leaving the Members of XYZ Association very little choice, on how to move forward concerning this matter. After 30 days of receiving this letter, if you can not provide the Membership with a detailed report of our finances, we will contact JOE Brown, our District Attorney, and see if we can set forth a motion, to have our finances, investigated by his office or to bring in a State Appointed Manager to supervise our finances, in till such time, as they can be turned back over to our Association".

I am quite sure, somebody is going to go straight into panic mode, and maybe start doing their job. Remember, just because it is a HOA, does not mean it is always a, "Civil Matter", when it comes to a Court of Law. Just a thought.

Dana - thanks for the suggestion!

This is something I will discuss with some of the others who are also feed up.

They can't just continue to keep replacing the MCs. Every time that has happened, we go from bad to worse with additional problems. In the August 2015 newsletter, it stated that after an exhaustive search, a new MC was hired. When I met with the treasurer the first week of September to get additional records, I asked him when their MC search started, and he replied that they spent 2-3 months researching MCs. Because of all the other lies, I'm not sure I believe that timing.

It seems that as soon as I mentioned filing a complaint with DORA re the MC violating CCIOA, that's when things changed.

My intent is not to file any complaints or cause problems, but to work with the board and the management company to get our records corrected so that they can be relied upon. And to get the Cluster Reserves properly funded.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Linda, it seems that you truly ahead of the game. I hope you can get the results, you are entitled to. I was having the "run around" issue with my HOA and PMC. I just started asking very specific questions, just to get roundabout answers. Then I went public. My questions now get a very defined answer. Please keep me / us posted, on any headway you make.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Linda,

Don't threaten anything you are not willing to follow through with.
Know the consequences of following through with anything you threaten.

For example: Exercising your option to ask for a State appointed manager (i.e. a Receiver) means that, if granted, the receiver answers to the court and not the membership or the Board. The receiver will raise assessments, with court authority, to cover their salary (ball park that at $50,000 per year). If funds were mismanaged, the receiver will likely raise assessments or impose a special assessment to place the Association back on a stable financial setting. The receiver will stop being the receiver when he says his work is done or the Association can prove to the court that the work is done.

If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/31/2016 1:31 PM
Linda,

Don't threaten anything you are not willing to follow through with.
Know the consequences of following through with anything you threaten.

For example: Exercising your option to ask for a State appointed manager (i.e. a Receiver) means that, if granted, the receiver answers to the court and not the membership or the Board. The receiver will raise assessments, with court authority, to cover their salary (ball park that at $50,000 per year). If funds were mismanaged, the receiver will likely raise assessments or impose a special assessment to place the Association back on a stable financial setting. The receiver will stop being the receiver when he says his work is done or the Association can prove to the court that the work is done.

If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).


Pay attention to this advice.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
What a novel idea to have this in the contract. In the end the "buck" stops with the board but this should be in every MC. The MC should be protecting the interest of the community and owners.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/31/2016 1:31 PM
If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).

With over $300,000 being unaccounted for, rotted exteriors, leaking roofs and knee high grass, won't be much of a sell point as well. Forget the receivership, have the thieves convicted.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/31/2016 1:31 PM
Linda,

Don't threaten anything you are not willing to follow through with.
Know the consequences of following through with anything you threaten.

For example: Exercising your option to ask for a State appointed manager (i.e. a Receiver) means that, if granted, the receiver answers to the court and not the membership or the Board. The receiver will raise assessments, with court authority, to cover their salary (ball park that at $50,000 per year). If funds were mismanaged, the receiver will likely raise assessments or impose a special assessment to place the Association back on a stable financial setting. The receiver will stop being the receiver when he says his work is done or the Association can prove to the court that the work is done.

If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).


Tim, yes, I am trying to be very careful with the requests I ask of the board and MC.

Last year, when I requested records, some were posted but I had to keep asking for the others. The board president interfered and told me I basically couldn't have the records (see my posts on 7/30 @ 6pm for details). I continued to ask for the missing records and in my 8th request, I again listed the statutes they were violating along with letting the MC and board know that they were both at risk (no D&O Ins & CAM license fines or forfeiture)if they act "in bad faith" and knowingly refuse to comply with applicable state laws. That produced an immediate reply from the MC agent who posted three documents and said he would get the others posted ASAP. However, this didn't happen because the board replaced the MC.

So now I have to do a lot of those steps over again so the new MC is also informed in emails. Then if I can't get the records I want, I will ask the board/MC to post the association's dispute policy - there is not one even though it is required by CCIOA 38-33.3-209.5 and 124 - Dispute resolution between association and owners.

If the board comes up with that dispute policy, I will attempt to follow it if it makes sense. If it's ridiculous, I will let them know that I will file a complaint with DORA who is supposed to investigate complaints. Not sure how far they take the complaints they get. Does anyone here know that procedure and how long it takes?
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/31/2016 2:28 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 07/31/2016 1:31 PM
If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).


With over $300,000 being unaccounted for, rotted exteriors, leaking roofs and knee high grass, won't be much of a sell point as well. Forget the receivership, have the thieves convicted.

Dana,
I'm not saying the monies were stolen. I really don't know that for a fact. But I'm positive there was a lot of BAD accounting that has not being corrected. More than bad, it is atrocious! The new MC says they are not "going back in time and are not going to re-invent the wheel." However, this MC has horrible accounting too and has made several errors. They even published 5/31/16 financials that don't balance.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 08/01/2016 2:10 PM
Posted By DanaT on 07/31/2016 2:28 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 07/31/2016 1:31 PM
If Buyers are aware of the Association being in receivership, they may shy away. This may cause home values to fall (as members start accepting sales for less then market rate to calm buyers fears of receivership).


With over $300,000 being unaccounted for, rotted exteriors, leaking roofs and knee high grass, won't be much of a sell point as well. Forget the receivership, have the thieves convicted.


Dana,
I'm not saying the monies were stolen. I really don't know that for a fact. But I'm positive there was a lot of BAD accounting that has not being corrected. More than bad, it is atrocious! The new MC says they are not "going back in time and are not going to re-invent the wheel." However, this MC has horrible accounting too and has made several errors. They even published 5/31/16 financials that don't balance.


I do understand. If monies can not be accounted for, then people who have nothing to fear, will bend over backwards to clear themselves. When someone starts to make excuses or stonewalls the process, then that is where I would focus my search.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Dana,

I'm glad you brought that up. It forced me to break up that $335K by management company,

Missing deposits - $91,684
Invalid expenses - $243,665

Unfortunately, only about 3% ($10K) is due to our current MC who just started 10/2015. I was working with the VP of the previous MC when the board president interfered, telling me I couldn't have any more records and shortly afterwards that MC was fired.

I wonder, though, if there is a statute of limitations on responsibility?
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Surpluses do occur and can be placed in reserve funds. This expenditure could have been paid from a reserve that did not reduce the reserve based the reserve study and funding for a specific reserve.

There should be a grounds fund for things other than basic grounds maintenance i.e. cutting grass, lawn treatment etc. in the contract for that service. Tree removal or shrub removal is an additional cost. Same thing with fencing.

There are times you will be over budget and times under. Snow removal beyond anticipation, storm damage, contract change for cleaning, lawn etc. plus or minus. Increase in cost of water or utilities or even some type of water breach increase the water bill. Change is trash service. All kinds of things can happen so it would be impossible to be spot on.

CPA ae good to have on hand when creating a budget. If the HOA is running smoothly they can even get contracts in advance and lock in cost to include in the budget. That means they have to know exactly what they are doing and when.

If all the money is there, that is the main thing. If they are using good business judgement, wasteful, property is not maintained etc. that is another issue. And if this change reduced cost, it will save over the long term.

LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Joyce,

There were two reserve studies done in 2014.
General reserves were over-funded ~ 110%
Cluster reserves were under-funded ~ 30%

However, there were major errors in both. I pointed this out to the board shortly after they were posted and told them that both would have to be corrected before any dues increase. They ignored me and tried to increase Cluster dues anyway. First, by just announcing it in the newsletter. And when someone told them a vote was necessary, they tried that but a quorum was not achieved. They still plan to pursue the increase again this year.

I provided the board an analysis of the Cluster reserve account last June, which was turned over to the previous MC. As bad as their financials were, the VP was at least attempting to research my spreadsheets and get the accounts corrected.

My goal would be to transfer monies in the cash accounts so that Cluster "restricted" monies were correct.

Budget line items (largest) for grounds:
Landscaping Contract $56,100
Repair & Maintenance 8,463
Tree Maintenance 12,000
Irrigation Repairs 12,500 - the new "controllers" ($69K) were expensed here. Additional $2,500 for the software.

They mess with the accounts all the time. For instance, last year the budget for tree maintenance was the same $12,000, but the expense was $21K - expensed $8K from operating and $13 from reserves. Another example - $4K fence repairs paid from the reserves instead of operating.

The more this kind of thing is done, the more leeway for the board to be under budget and/or get special agendas done.

Where do they think all that extra money comes from? It is Cluster money that needs repaid!!
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
I agree that financials should not be all over the place and should reflect funding as required by the reserve study. Never heard of a cluster reserve. I have been privileged to see monies bounced around, budget items you can not budget for etc. Have done lots of spreadsheets and the math for assessments for operating and reserves.

See if you can get the board to establish a finance committee and get an independent CPA involved with the committee. Present the findings.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
I have posted on this site last year and got a lot of valuable information. Not sure how to link to that - but there is a lot more detail there on my issues.

Basically, Our HOA has all stand-alone homes of two types: 164 traditional homes and 181 cluster homes - similar to patio homes where the lots are smaller. All the Cluster lots are 40 ft. x 80 ft.

So there are two reserve funds: the general reserves which covers everything except for the "private streets" maintenance that the Cluster owners pay extra dues of $25/mo - $54,300/yr. This money (per our declaration)is to be deposited into a separate bank account and it is restricted to that use ONLY.

However, the MC just cannot get the accounting correct - over and over. We are on our 4th MC and it is worse than the others.
The financials are wrong - wrong - wrong! Problem is the MC and/or board doesn't want to admit to error and won't correct them.

Our HOA used to have an internal audit committee several years ago but the board dismissed. Recently, there was a finance committee (approved audits, reserve studies, financials, budgets, etc.) I joined that committee because all the items approved by them were in error. Within 5 days, the board president stated that the finance committee was no longer needed because they (the board and new MC) were handling things so greatly. Nothing could be further form the truth.

Last year, I informed them that the reserve studies were in error by huge amounts. They ignored me and pursued a dues increase anyway. I persisted and now finally they are having another done (not correcting the first one, but having another company start completely over) at a cost of $2.900. More waste by this board not knowing what they are doing in the first place. And refusing to take suggestions.

I also did an analysis of the Cluster funds (deposits and expenses) but they don't want to deal with it. If they got the accounting correct, that would limit their ability to do what they want.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We have a similar situation, Linda, by a different name. Have you had a certified reserve analyst or specialist review your reserves budgets and their requirements? The analyst needs to review your governing documents to straighten this out.

Don't your cluster homes also have a different operating budget? Leet's say, for instance, they uses a lot less of your landscaping budget.

CPAs have been to totally useless in fixing our many reserves errors due to our three "clusters" because of their inexperience with interpreting governing documents.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
We were required (from 1974) to have a separate operating budget for Cluster personal water usage. This wasn’t set up until 2002 after a huge revolt when the board took the homeowners to court to force a declaration amendment.

The MCs have always had a very difficult time in trying to break down the water billings between common use (greenbelts, pool) and domestic use. This ongoing controversy ended in 2006 when individual water meters were installed in each cluster home. And since then, the only additional expense for cluster homes is for “private street” maintenance.

The 2014 reserve study was a big mess due to the board or MC company making changes that weren't warranted. And instead of making corrections, the board is having a whole new study done for $2,900. Wasteful!!!

I don’t think the CPAs have even read our declaration. Their audit report mentions two different assessment levels but they don’t state what the difference represents – unbelievable! They get their information from the MCs who don’t have a full understanding of our governing documents nor state law.

I’ve asked for an accounting of Cluster Reserve funds several times to no avail. I have my own analysis that shows ~$335K missing as of 6/30/16. The information it contains is based mostly on financials which sometimes cannot be relied upon so I'm not positive about the total but it is a start.

If anyone on this site would like to review it, I would appreciate the feedback - questions or comments
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 08/05/2016 11:27 PM
We were required (from 1974) to have a separate operating budget for Cluster personal water usage. This wasn’t set up until 2002 after a huge revolt when the board took the homeowners to court to force a declaration amendment.

The MCs have always had a very difficult time in trying to break down the water billings between common use (greenbelts, pool) and domestic use. This ongoing controversy ended in 2006 when individual water meters were installed in each cluster home. And since then, the only additional expense for cluster homes is for “private street” maintenance.

The 2014 reserve study was a big mess due to the board or MC company making changes that weren't warranted. And instead of making corrections, the board is having a whole new study done for $2,900. Wasteful!!!

I don’t think the CPAs have even read our declaration. Their audit report mentions two different assessment levels but they don’t state what the difference represents – unbelievable! They get their information from the MCs who don’t have a full understanding of our governing documents nor state law.

I’ve asked for an accounting of Cluster Reserve funds several times to no avail. I have my own analysis that shows ~$335K missing as of 6/30/16. The information it contains is based mostly on financials which sometimes cannot be relied upon so I'm not positive about the total but it is a start.

If anyone on this site would like to review it, I would appreciate the feedback - questions or comments

Linda when you say missing do you mean as in stolen or just that they have used it in ways you believe are improper thus it is not there where you believe it should be?
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
With such poor controls, it would be easy to steal from HOAs. A major problem is that board members don't understand financials and take the word of MCs who will say anything to cover up their errors and/or theft.

In the past, we had a board treasurer who was a CPA and did a lot better job than most. However, he missed a lot of things - mainly due to lack of time in checking things out. But it is understandable because he worked full time and had a growing family.

It's possible we've had some theft (due to lack of over-sight) but if so, I don't think it's major or else the CPA audit would have caught that. An audit checks items on a test basis with most emphasis on large dollar items - their report even states that the financial statements are "free from MATERIAL misstatements." But they didn't check to see that the money was deposited into the proper account or expensed from the proper account.

That being said, the most of the monies are there - just in the wrong accounts.

Operating ........... $ 74,606
General Reserves .... 357,314
Cluster Reserves .... 25,620
TOTAL .... $457,540

My suggestion would be to transfer money from the operating and general reserve to properly fund the Cluster Reserves.
Lowering the operating to 20K and the GR to 76K. This would leave GR underfunded but with enough money to pay for budgeted items for a few years. I think it is necessary to raise dues (the base dues for all 345 homes) to get the GR to a higher level.

I reminded the board that raising the dues (say, $10) for the base vs cluster extra dues gives large differences.
Raise the base $10/mo - $41K/yr ..... Raise only cluster dues $10/mo - $21K/yr, which is restricted. A $20K difference.

They don't get it! And they don't want to raise everyone's dues.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We too, Linda, had a CPA as our treasurer for about 4-5 years and he screwed up mightily because he did not understand our "clusters," and he didn't not understand our governing docs. When he left office in '07, our "general" receives were only 18% funded!! It's taken us years to get them healthy. Meantime our cluster reserves are well funded because the condo units comprising them were overcharged for years.

But I'd say you may not move funds form one type of reserves account to another. the reason is Owners in the former cluster, say, in our case, over- contributed to get so healthy. And now they'd have some of their reserves stolen to bolster a different set of reserves???

The solution to overfunded reserves is to lower dues in that cluster until such time that they're reasonably funded.

Your wrote: Operating ........... $ 74,606
General Reserves .... 357,314
Cluster Reserves .... 25,620
TOTAL .... $457,540

But there should be a separate operating budget, as you already have note, for the cluster op. budget.

What % funded are your two reserves accounts, Linda??
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Kerry - Thanks for the input on your HOA - proves my contention that there is wide spread mismanagement.

You wrote: "But I'd say you may not move funds form one type of reserves account to another. the reason is Owners in the former cluster, say, in our case, over- contributed to get so healthy. And now they'd have some of their reserves stolen to bolster a different set of reserves???"

You are exactly right. But that is what has been done to the cluster homes.

Many times Cluster dues were not deposited ($92K)at all - leaving more money in the operating budget for the board to play around with - the same effect as if they had made the deposits and then moved them back out.

Other times, expenses($244K)were paid out of Cluster reserves that should have been paid out of General reserves - the same effect as moving cluster money out so General reserve expenses could be paid.

You also wrote: "The solution to overfunded reserves is to lower dues in that cluster until such time that they're reasonably funded."

I disagree with this statement. It would depend on why the reserves were over OR under funded.

There were two reserve studies done in 2014. (many errors that will change the %s somewhat)
General reserves were over-funded ~ 110%
Cluster reserves were under-funded ~ 30%

General reserves are not over-funded because the related dues were too high. It is over-funded because the expenses that should have been paid out of that account were instead paid out of Cluster reserves.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS27 on 07/28/2016 10:37 AM
Is there anything that requires a board to follow their annual budget budget?

Back to my original question.

There must be something out there about budgets that I can quote to the board and MC.

I mean logically a budget should be followed or else why even set one up in the first place?

This is not about variances - I understand that happens a lot - even large ones. One year after a couple blizzards, our line item for tree maintenance was over by $13K. That is something the board couldn't foresee but still had to be taken care of.

We have a line item for "Irrigation repair and maintenance" that has a budget of $12K. These costs have sometimes gone way over the budget because of some thefts. Again, something the board couldn't foresee. However this year the board purchased "controllers" (a capital improvement costing $72K) and expensed it in this line item.

What is there to prevent a board from doing this all the time?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why stop the board from making budgetary decisions? Is it not their job? If you do not like what they spend money on for the HOA as a whole, then get on board or vote them out. I do not see a problem unless you want to make one. I can not imagine an HOA ever staying on budget. They are only required to submit one each year. Nothing says it is what it has to adhere to it to the last dollar. The submitted yearly budget is just an outline or goal for the HOA to have guidelines in spending for the year. By no means does that mean the HOA can live in it.

Former HOA President
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
I'm not talking about the last dollar - as I explained. I'm talking about an NEW purchase costing $72,000.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here