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CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Dear All,

We have a homeowner who has a serious drinking problem. He has been known to hide alcohol on the property. He falls down often and hurts himself. He is very belligerent when he drinks (which is most of the time). He and his wife have violated several covenants regarding "dumping personal items" on the property. We posted the items, gave them 7 days to remove them. (table / chairs in the garage; artificial tree stored in the stairwell, which was a fire hazard).

He has been verbally abusive toward me (since I am the communications person and the one to send all emails to the community when this kind of thing happens; we didn't know the owners, so we asked them to remove the items or else we (the board) would get someone to dispose of them.

He has taken to being "in my face" every time I see him. Now, other board members are getting the same kind of wrath from him. He was 6 inches from hitting one of the board members with his car and glared at her when he did. He does not talk like this to anyone other than the "female board members".

I asked the President (who is a guy) to step up and send him an email which re-states the violations and that we, as a board, acted unanimously. He wants to blame 2 of us (females) for all of the decisions made by the board. The President believes it is a matter for the HOA attorney as he does not think this guy would respond to an email from him (the President).

His wife has fed into this whole scenario. She is now dying from Pancreatic Cancer. But, they were this way long before the diagnosis. We are a bit concerned that her husband is becoming even more of a loose cannon and want to know what we should do. He is erratic, unpredictable, and almost always inebriated.

Your thoughts would be most helpful
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
When they are intoxicated in public, call the police.

If you feel threatened, call the police and request a restraining order.

There is no reason you should have to face anything that you believe is a threat. Therefore, insist that all communications be in writing sent by US mail or email. If need be, have the attorney write the letter (so they know the Association means business).
CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Thanks so much Tim.

Wonderful advice.

We just reached out to our attorney and have sent him all of the incidents that have occurred. We are asking him to write a letter to this homeowner.

The Property Manager said we should report these to the police as a matter of having them on record. Can we get a restraining order if he has not done anything physically?

Carolyn
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 07/27/2016 7:22 AM
Thanks so much Tim.

Can we get a restraining order if he has not done anything physically?

Carolyn

I agree with Tim. Call the Police. I just left the PWC Court House this morning, over my upstairs neighbor. I had him arrested, for basically, what you have stated. Call your District Attorneys Office and ask them if you can send a letter of "No Trespass" OR "Restraining Order", as a private citizen, to this person.

If they say yes, do it by regular as well as certified mail. If he approaches you again, whip out the phone and snap his picture. Call the police and show them your letter as well as the pic, and off he goes. Start with your DA's Office, they should have no problem directing you, on how your situation needs to be handled.

If you are allowed to do this in your state, have your letters written and show this person, that the next time this happens, you will put everything into motion. If he does it again, you will have done everything in your power, and he will only have himself to blame.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
@ CarolynM3 CRIMINAL TRESPASS AND DAMAGE TO PROPERTY 2010 Georgia Code TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES CHAPTER 7 - DAMAGE TO AND INTRUSION UPON PROPERTY ARTICLE 2 - PART 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS ยง 16-7-21 - Criminal trespass

Look at section (b), #2.

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;

(2) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or (Bold add by myself)
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 07/27/2016 7:05 AM

He has been verbally abusive toward me (since I am the communications person and the one to send all emails to the community when this kind of thing happens; we didn't know the owners, so we asked them to remove the items or else we (the board) would get someone to dispose of them.

He has taken to being "in my face" every time I see him. Now, other board members are getting the same kind of wrath from him. He was 6 inches from hitting one of the board members with his car and glared at her when he did. He does not talk like this to anyone other than the "female board members".

If you have not already, document every communication from him, and continue to do so. Any time it appears he is about to become violent or uses threatening language may qualify as an "assault" (but not battery), which is likely criminal under your state law. Report these instances to the police. Get this documented in a statement to the police. The police should have a form for you to fill out.

If this resident is contacting you or any board member, such that he is not responding to a communication from the HOA, then this may be criminal harassment in Georgia. See http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-46/chapter-5/article-2/part-1/46-5-21 and http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-11/article-2/16-11-39-1 . If this resident appears to be violating these two criminal statutes, note it in your police report.

The HOA should first write a cease and desist letter. If your board is not capable of coming up with the correct language for this (google!), then ask the HOA attorney to do it. No change in behavior of this resident? Then have the HOA attorney to write a letter on her or his letter head to the guy.

Should all this fail, then seek a civil restraining order. You will probably have to do it with yourself alone as the "plaintiff," but you can document harassment of the other directors there, too. Have the HOA pay for this restraining order. The instant you serve papers on this resident, I would expect a change in behavior.

What you describe with the repeated abusive language, threatening body language, and the car is almost exactly what happened at my former HOA. The resident similarly seemed to target the more vulnerable appearing (the women). The police initially insisted this was a civil matter and not their business. The HOA became insistent with the police, citing the criminal harassment law where I live. Police ramped up their visits to the resident. Between the police and the restraining order (quickly won by one of the directors, with the order stating that the resident had also harassed the Association's staff and other directors), the resident was shut down. We did not use an attorney in this instance.

I am sorry for your suffering (and, as at my former HOA, sorry that a resident is so angry, unable to cope, and so on). Use the law.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
As Tim and others suggested make this a police matter. If he is acting in a manner that you find threatening regardless of whether he has taken physical action that is still a crime.

Perhaps you might wish to purchase a small audio recorder and simply record his next tirade if and when it occurs.

Drunken fools can act in irrational ways in my view best to impress upon him this behavior will not be accepted or permitted.

Sorry for your troubles. No one, not even HOA board members, deserve this type of treatment.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 07/27/2016 7:05 AM
. . . The President believes it is a matter for the HOA attorney as he does not think this guy would respond to an email from him (the President). . . His wife has fed into this whole scenario. She is now dying from Pancreatic Cancer. But, they were this way long before the diagnosis. We are a bit concerned that her husband is becoming even more of a loose cannon and want to know what we should do. He is erratic, unpredictable, and almost always inebriated.

CarolynM3 GA : if you were an employer tolerating the toxicity of the as-described scenario being directed at your employees, you would possibly face government sanctions in some jurisdictions. Absolutely toxic for a community to watch especially if children are exposed.

If your sense of the volatility & direction is correct, interactions should be left to your attorney & police.

In my probably overly liberal jurisdiction, a civil court in 2010 ordered the sale of an abusive drunk's condo unit. It also hit her for $35 K in legal costs. Alongside trash talking & boozy-threats established by affidavits, there was evidence of a very minor assault. There was concern about her Doberman. This case was important in persuading my legislature to enact an upcoming judicial power to order condo unit sales. If I had to endure the toxicity I might not have any civil rights fear about where that power could go astray . . .

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 07/27/2016 7:22 AM

The Property Manager said we should report these to the police as a matter of having them on record. Can we get a restraining order if he has not done anything physically?

Laws vary by State. The Police can probably answer this question to a point.

JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Certify a letter requesting that he attend a hearing and it might be wise to have a "special meeting" before this escalates. Have an attorney attend the meeting and conduct the hearing. Follow Roberts Rules of Order.

All the other suggestions made by Tim are warranted. Any correspondence should be sent by the PMA.

Document, document, document.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoyceR2 on 08/01/2016 1:38 PM
Certify a letter requesting that he attend a hearing and it might be wise to have a "special meeting" before this escalates. Have an attorney attend the meeting and conduct the hearing. Follow Roberts Rules of Order.

All the other suggestions made by Tim are warranted. Any correspondence should be sent by the PMA.

Document, document, document.

Joyce

Request he be at a hearing? What for? A good verbal slap on the wrists? A tongue lashing? You expect he will pay attention?

This idiot needs some legal action taken against him. He is beyond a good old tongue lashing
CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your support and wise advice.

We did contact our attorney to have a letter drawn up that would tell him to "cease and desist". Now, because his wife is dying of pancreatic cancer, other board members want to hold off and defer sending it until it happens again.

The sad part is that his wife instigates much of what he does. He is always referring to "something she said" when he goes into these rants. This behavior pre-dates his wife getting sick. He started on the attack long before she was diagnosed.

I am still struggling with whether to at least do as the property manager suggested: notify the police so that there is a record of his behavior. That I should go to the precinct and ask them for their advice on how to proceed.

It is a struggle...to do the right thing, even for someone so horribly nasty, potentially dangerous, and overbearing.

I appreciate each of you...

Carolyn
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
No. Would offer him a forum in fairness to discuss the issue and likely expose his behavior before an audience. On top of his drinking issue there is no doubt this family is in dysfunction and stressed.

They must have a process which normally includes a hearing. That is not to suggest that any other formal actions should not be taken.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Communications should be directed to the homeowner IF they are NOT the owners. They are NOT members of your HOA. So it's best to start communicating to the owner who is a member of the HOA. They will have to deal with the violations as they reflect on their ownership. Violations are to be held against the owner to clean up or pay up.

Plus call the police when it becomes abusive or violates the law. It's assault if he punches someone. Public drunkiness is against the law. Call the police. The HOA is NOT the police. They just process the HOA rules/regulations. It's time to get the owner involved. They ultimately will have to do the evicting, pay any fines, or do any clean ups.

Former HOA President
CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
I am sorry if I was confusing.

This is the "homeowner" behaving in this manner. They do not have a tenant.

Thanks,
Carolyn
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
No confusion, Carolyn. Your opening sentence say "homeowner."
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 08/01/2016 4:36 PM
I am sorry if I was confusing.

Some people have a tendency to be confused in any case, best to filter them out.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There was a bit of confusion because it seemed that there was a tenant/homeowner relationship involved in later posts. Now that is cleared up we can proceed in again saying this is a police matter when it crosses the line of being cordial. The HOA is not the police. It's an expensive option, but having a lawyer written approach may be the only way to communicate. Since it will ultimately escalate to that point eventually.

Former HOA President
CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Melissa,

There are no references at all in this thread to "tenant". Maybe you confused this thread with another one on which you were participating.

Carolyn

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