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CathyD4 (Rhode Island)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Is there a time frame for the HOA to complete repairs once an issue has been brought to their attention (the issue is with the foundation of a unit).
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Not really, but if it seems to be taking a very very long time (e.g. several months, you should find out why. Money's always an issue - you want to get things done, but if you have an issue with delinquencies, tough decisions need to be made

If the issue has to do with the foundation of a unit, it may be the Board is checking to see who's responsible (could be a developer issue) or something's going on that the association can't control. Is this a detached unit or townhouse - if it's the former, it may be homeowner responsibility. Check your documents to see who's responsible for what.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyD4 on 07/23/2016 8:25 PM
Is there a time frame for the HOA to complete repairs once an issue has been brought to their attention (the issue is with the foundation of a unit).

Our docs state that if the issue is with the Owner, they 30 days to fix the issues, once it is brought to their attention. I really can't see why this same time limit could not be flipped back on the HOA. If it truly is a foundation issue, then it most likely, will be on the HOA. You should be able to contact your local Building Inspector or even your local Health Department, to have them come out and look at your situation. Since you used the word "Unit", I am assuming it is a condo, correct?
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
It would be helpful to understand just what this issue is.

It it cosmetic in nature? Is the foundation leaking? Just what are you dealing with?

Is this issue isolated to one unit? Who was notified about the repairs being necessary and when?

My opinion would be never invite the building inspector or department of health out. Talk about opening up a can of worms.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 12:42 AM
Posted By CathyD4 on 07/23/2016 8:25 PM
Is there a time frame for the HOA to complete repairs once an issue has been brought to their attention (the issue is with the foundation of a unit).


Our docs state that if the issue is with the Owner, they 30 days to fix the issues, once it is brought to their attention. I really can't see why this same time limit could not be flipped back on the HOA.

I can think of a couple of reasons.

The first is that the Association manages by committee vs. an individual or two individuals making the decision.
When you deal with a committee you need to work around multiple schedules.
When you deal with a committee, you typically have more questions that need answered.
When you deal with a committee, you may have a few that don't understand the issue fully and time is needed to explain things to them.

The second is money.
Individuals can more easily adjust a budget then a committee.
It's likely easier for the household to obtain a loan if needed then it would be for the Association to obtain a loan or receive approval for a special assessment.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
My opinion would be never invite the building inspector or department of health out. Talk about opening up a can of worms.


The Creator forbid a structure meets the MINIMUM requirements necessary for human occupation.

Some cans NEED to be opened.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 07/24/2016 4:58 AM

Some cans NEED to be opened.

agreed
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
As we now have no idea what the repairs needed are it would be impossible to determine whether this property meets " minimum" standards for occupancy.

In my 40 years of dealing with building inspectors, department of health and many other government agencies their involvement brings in a whole new level of what is required and how it must be. Much of which is meaningless and wasteful.

We recently dealt with the DOH regarding our pool. Talk about needless, senseless and idiotic policies and requirements.

But by all means invite them over and see how it works out for you.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyD4 on 07/23/2016 8:25 PM
Is there a time frame for the HOA to complete repairs once an issue has been brought to their attention (the issue is with the foundation of a unit).

I could be wrong, but I believe that Rhode Island is not an open meeting state.

If your repairs need to be decided by committee, then you might not know how long it will take for the decision to be made.

In your shoes, I would do one or more of the following:

1) Ask your property manager how long it usually takes for a complaint like yours to get fixed;

2) Find out which committee or individual makes the decision;

3) Ask for copies of the minutes from the meeting where the issue was decided;

4) If not decided yet, find out if your issue is on the next agenda.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 12:42 AM

Our docs state that if the issue is with the Owner, they 30 days to fix the issues, once it is brought to their attention.

Thirty days just isn't possible for all problems. A foundation problem counld take thirty days just for the engineers report. A building permit could take six weeks after that, and the capable contractors could be off another eight.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mark,

We have the same timeline for members to fix violations of the covenants. However, being realistic, as long as the member can show that the process is started (copy of repair contract, inspectors report, etc.) then we would easily extend time to complete.

The 30 day requirement is to keep those who simply don't want to comply from pushing it off forever.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 07/24/2016 8:23 AM
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 12:42 AM

Our docs state that if the issue is with the Owner, they 30 days to fix the issues, once it is brought to their attention.


Thirty days just isn't possible for all problems. A foundation problem counld take thirty days just for the engineers report. A building permit could take six weeks after that, and the capable contractors could be off another eight.

I agree that all repairs will require different lengths of time to repair. However, 30 days is more then enough time, to decide who is responsible for the repairs and what the next step should be.

Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/24/2016 4:53 AM


I can think of a couple of reasons.

The first is that the Association manages by committee vs. an individual or two individuals making the decision.
When you deal with a committee you need to work around multiple schedules.
When you deal with a committee, you typically have more questions that need answered.
When you deal with a committee, you may have a few that don't understand the issue fully and time is needed to explain things to them.

The second is money.
Individuals can more easily adjust a budget then a committee.
It's likely easier for the household to obtain a loan if needed then it would be for the Association to obtain a loan or receive approval for a special assessment.


To a Unit Owner who can't get answers, that just sounds like bla, bla, bla!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 8:49 AM

To a Unit Owner who can't get answers, that just sounds like bla, bla, bla!


That is correct.

This is why it's important for the Board to inform the membership on how things work and invite them to the meetings so they can see for themselves what the process is.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 8:49 AM

I agree that all repairs will require different lengths of time to repair. However, 30 days is more then enough time, to decide who is responsible for the repairs and what the next step should be.

Maybe, maybe not. For instance, if there is a dry rot issue, things could become mired down in deciding if it was an installation error, material issue or a poor design. That could take weeks before anyone would be willing to cut a check. And nobody will start work before the money is there.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 07/24/2016 9:07 AM
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 8:49 AM

I agree that all repairs will require different lengths of time to repair. However, 30 days is more then enough time, to decide who is responsible for the repairs and what the next step should be.

Maybe, maybe not. For instance, if there is a dry rot issue, things could become mired down in deciding if it was an installation error, material issue or a poor design. That could take weeks before anyone would be willing to cut a check. And nobody will start work before the money is there.

Like everyone else in this community, most of my post are hypothetical, as the OP, gave very little information and I have no idea where they are located. If their unit is 30 years old, then it would be one way, as apposed to being 3 months old.

Our docs are very clear on who is responsible for what, as we have "Unit Boundaries" listed in our Declaration. I went one step further and made a video, explaining what the terminology means, gave examples and then posted it on our community YT channel.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 9:35 AM
I went one step further and made a video, explaining what the terminology means, gave examples and then posted it on our community YT channel.

Interesting approach. Any way we can see your video?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I wouldn't call the responses on this forum hypothetical as they aren't imagined or based on an untested theory.

Instead I would call the responses more akin to suppositional as we fill in the blanks of an OP's posting based on our own experiences. Considering that most of the individuals who respond on this site are currently serving or have previously served on their Board or a Committee of an HOA/COA, combined with the knowledge that a fair number of individuals who post have been successful in ousting a bad board, the opinions are typically based in piratical experience.

Of course it's always best to ask for the blanks to be filled in vs. using your own experiences (as your Association may be ran differently then the originator of any post).

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/24/2016 9:40 AM
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 9:35 AM
I went one step further and made a video, explaining what the terminology means, gave examples and then posted it on our community YT channel.

Interesting approach. Any way we can see your video?

I have no problem with that, I just can't figure out how to post the link, without breaking the rule of not naming the name, of the community. Any Ideas?
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/24/2016 9:48 AM
I wouldn't call the responses on this forum hypothetical as they aren't imagined or based on an untested theory.

Instead I would call the responses more akin to suppositional as we fill in the blanks of an OP's posting based on our own experiences. Considering that most of the individuals who respond on this site are currently serving or have previously served on their Board or a Committee of an HOA/COA, combined with the knowledge that a fair number of individuals who post have been successful in ousting a bad board, the opinions are typically based in piratical experience.

Of course it's always best to ask for the blanks to be filled in vs. using your own experiences (as your Association may be ran differently then the originator of any post).


Tomato, Tamoto.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
So as most boards meet one time per month it would be possible to require this board to act with just one meeting.

Determine the issues.
Determine who is responsible.
Determine who best to address the issue.
Solicit bids if needed
Meet with those providing bids to inspect the work to be performed.
Determine where on the priority list of things needing to be done this project falls.
Schedule the work.
Notify the residents.
Hope for cooperating weather conditions.

And do this in 20 business days.

Rather than Bla Bla Bla sounds like simply reality to me.
And just maybe there might be other projects in the works.

As we have no real details as to what work needs to be done, who determined this work needs to be done,
the scope of the work being done, or any response from this HOA any comments can be based on nothing more than pure speculation.

We have projects delayed all the time due to weather, contractor availability, material ordering, board input, lawyer input, and a whole host of other reasons.

Sometimes people are less than reasonable in the time frame they require.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
@JonD1. I addressed your post, in my post #63. And yes, when BODs start listing things that you mentioned, bla, bla, bla, fits real nice! How is it that BODs can never live up to the same requirements, they hold their Members to?
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Sorry JonD1, 8 posts up from yours.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 10:02 AM
Posted By NpS on 07/24/2016 9:40 AM
Posted By DanaT on 07/24/2016 9:35 AM
I went one step further and made a video, explaining what the terminology means, gave examples and then posted it on our community YT channel.

Interesting approach. Any way we can see your video?


I have no problem with that, I just can't figure out how to post the link, without breaking the rule of not naming the name, of the community. Any Ideas?

Posting a URL does not IMO break the rules re naming names. Maybe others know better.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
shoot me an e-mail. [email protected] I will send you the link to our site, I would love any input you have! I will be at the pc for another 30 min
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Using http code, simply post: here is a link to our Associations website and then embed the link within the words Association website

This way, you are providing a link but not naming the name of your Association.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/24/2016 11:24 AM
Using http code, simply post: here is a link to our Associations website and then embed the link within the words Association website

This way, you are providing a link but not naming the name of your Association.


Thanks Tim.

This is the link to our NON OFFICIAL Association, Community HOA Website
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/24/2016 4:53 AM
I can think of a couple of reasons.

The first is that the Association manages by committee vs. an individual or two individuals making the decision.
When you deal with a committee you need to work around multiple schedules.
When you deal with a committee, you typically have more questions that need answered.
When you deal with a committee, you may have a few that don't understand the issue fully and time is needed to explain things to them.


If the declaration requires the association to make all structural repairs and fails to do so in a timely manner - which is a judgment call based on the severity of the problem - the unit owner may apply to the courts to remedy the problem. I am unaware of any defenses that involve needing time to form a committee or to hold a meeting instead of taking action. The association should know already what it is responsible for and should be organized to perform its tasks in a timely manner.

The association should, at the very least, have already delegated authority to someone to inspect the issue and advise as to repairs needed. The association should also have a professional engineer on retainer if the initial inspection indicates that a serious problem may be present. The last thing the association needs is a committee of morons making decisions from a point of total ignorance.

If one of your kids was sick would you let a committee of doctors treat him knowing that "you may have a few that don't understand the issue fully and time is needed to explain things to them?"

Quote:

The second is money.
Individuals can more easily adjust a budget then a committee.
It's likely easier for the household to obtain a loan if needed then it would be for the Association to obtain a loan or receive approval for a special assessment.


The board's job is to raise sufficient funds to operate the association and to set aside money in reserve for repairs. Lack of funds is never a defense. It is not the owner's job to float a loan to pay for repairs to the structure. The board members, by offering to serve on the board, accepted certain fiduciary obligations. If they have no money for repairs then they failed their fiduciary duties and could be held personally liable for the costs.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Was there defective construction or is some concrete flaking? Is it dangerous or just unappealing to look at? Has the OP been waiting 6 months or 6 days? Is it a new or old problem? Has the HOA investigated or not? Will the fix cost $100 or $100K? And on and on?

Do you really think there's a one size fits all answer to the question originally asked?


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 07/25/2016 12:40 AM


The second is money.
Individuals can more easily adjust a budget then a committee.
It's likely easier for the household to obtain a loan if needed then it would be for the Association to obtain a loan or receive approval for a special assessment.


The board's job is to raise sufficient funds to operate the association and to set aside money in reserve for repairs. Lack of funds is never a defense. It is not the owner's job to float a loan to pay for repairs to the structure. The board members, by offering to serve on the board, accepted certain fiduciary obligations. If they have no money for repairs then they failed their fiduciary duties and could be held personally liable for the costs.

Unless the governing documents required membership approval to raise sufficient funds. Be it through special assessments or through higher then the Board has authority to raise regular assessments. Then, as long as the Board brought the issue to the membership for a vote, their fiduciary duty was fulfilled.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 07/25/2016 12:40 AM

The board's job is to raise sufficient funds to operate the association and to set aside money in reserve for repairs. Lack of funds is never a defense. It is not the owner's job to float a loan to pay for repairs to the structure. The board members, by offering to serve on the board, accepted certain fiduciary obligations. If they have no money for repairs then they failed their fiduciary duties and could be held personally liable for the costs.

My situation, as I write this, may be the perfect example for the OP. Our Units were built in 1989. We are having issues with the concrete slabs, heaving, cracking and "popping", in some of our building breezeways as well as our sidewalks. In our bottom floor Unit, we are starting to notice that under our carpet, it feels like you are walking on small pebbles, in some areas. You can see the cracks run from the breezway, right inside our unit.

At our last HOA Meeting, as the BOD was discussing what to do with the breezeways, I brought up our issue and simple asked, "who would be responsible for the repairs of the concrete, inside the first floor units". The Prez instantly responded that it would be the Unit Owner. I then asked if our Declaration had ever been amended to remove this responsibility from the Association and place it on the Home Owner? He replied no. I then stated that in our Declaration under "Unit Boundaries", it clearly stated that the Association was responsible for ANY repair, to the concrete slabs. I then asked him if he wanted the Book and Page # to confirm this information, he simple stated, "I know where it's at, your comment is well taken". Keep in mind, this conversation is being recorded.

Three weeks later, I sent a very nice e-mail to the BOD as well as the PMC, again asking, if they were going to honor our Documents explanation, on our issue. The PMC reply back, "You need to provide more information at the upcoming HOA Meeting".

So, this is what they already know. 1. The same issues we are having in the breezeways, are now coming into some of the first floor units, as we all have concrete slabs under our carpet padding. 2. Our documents clearly state who is responsible for the repairs. So now we start the "bla, bla, bla" syndrome.

So, what I have done is this. I contacted my Home Owners Insurance Carrier, and explained the situation to my agent. I also wrote an e-mail and sent it to him, as well. I already know, it is not their responsibility to pay for the repairs and I have no desire to pay the deductible, for a problem that I neither caused, nor I am responsible for. He agreed with me as well, after he read our Docs, concerning this issue. I asked him to write us a rejection letter concerning our issue and he had no problem doing so.

I will present my BOD a copy of this letter, in hopes to move this issue along. If I get no satisfaction at our next HOA Meeting, I will call the Associations Insurance Carrier myself, and advise them of the situation. I already know what their answer will be, but it may benefit me, if I need to proceed with legal action or complaints, filed at the State level.

Time invested since the issue was brought up, 25 days. Time I am willing to wait before I pay for the repairs out of my own pocket, 45 days. Time I will spent filing through PWC Court, about 20 min. Will I be successful via the Courts? I have no idea, nor does anyone else. If nothing else, I may get lucky and file an injunction, to simply force the Association, to honor the same contract, they hold me to, which is our Instruments.

Word spreads quickly in a 300 unit association. It seems others are having this issue and they were informed it was their responsibility to repair the issue. That is what prompted me to do a video, on who is responsible for what, according to our Documents.
CathyD4 (Rhode Island)
Posts: 2
Posted:
There is a hole in the foundation, about 5inches wide and six inches deep. It clearly states in my condo. documents that the condo. association is responsible for all repairs to the exterior of the units. They have also told us that they are responsible for the repairs and that if we did them our self we would not be reimbursed for the repairs. The issue is it already has been seven weeks since I told them about the issue and they do not seem to be in any hurry to fix it.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Hi Cathy

Thanks for the additional info.

Have you done any of the items listed in the prior post?

Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/24/2016 6:00 AM


1) Ask your property manager how long it usually takes for a complaint like yours to get fixed;

2) Find out which committee or individual makes the decision;

3) Ask for copies of the minutes from the meeting where the issue was decided;

4) If not decided yet, find out if your issue is on the next agenda.



Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When you first told the Board about this, what was their response? If they said they would have someone inspect the matter, ask when this was done, when was the outcome and has a repair date been set. If they still "don't seem to be in a hurry to fix it", you make have to consider legal action.

But first, it may help to have your own expert inspect the foundation so you'll have some idea as to what caused it (there may be other issues the association will need to worry about) and what can happen if it doesn't get repaired.

Document everything you do, so if you do need to go to court, you'll have the necessary backup.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Cathy,

You may benefit from having an attorney write a letter on your behalf that specifies since the Association is aware of the issue that their failure to act to address the issue will be considered negligence on their part and as such they will be responsible for any damages or injury resulting from the issue.

It may cost you $300 but it may get a fire going under the Board as a letter from an attorney can indicate that you expect the issue to be resolved.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyD4 on 07/25/2016 6:45 AM
There is a hole in the foundation, about 5inches wide and six inches deep. It clearly states in my condo. documents that the condo. association is responsible for all repairs to the exterior of the units. They have also told us that they are responsible for the repairs and that if we did them our self we would not be reimbursed for the repairs. The issue is it already has been seven weeks since I told them about the issue and they do not seem to be in any hurry to fix it.

Hello Cathy. The list below will allow you to gain a little more incite on your situation, maybe. I have made the type of repair you described, more then 2 or 3 dozen times. Sometimes, depending on your climate, what starts off as a little hole, will get larger over the years, due to water seeping in, then freezing, and as it expands, it takes out a little more concrete with it. Any who, like I said, the list below shows how easy it is to repair for under $20.00 and maybe you can advise your BOD, about this process. Hope this helps.

How to repair a Concrete Foundation Video

QUIKRETE Hydraulic Water-Stop 10-lb Gray Cement Mix . $8.14.

Dow GREAT STUFF Big Gap Filler 12-fl oz Spray Foam Insulation . $3.78.

Armaly ProPlus Polyurethane Sponge . $1.99.

Encore Plastics 5-Gallon Commercial Bucket . $4.48.

Total Price. $18.39 + Tax.

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