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GreggK2 (Kansas)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Hey everyone. We submitted our Bylaws to our attorney months ago because they were 12 years old an no longer conformed to Kansas Statutes. He added a number of things but it is the one paragraph that I am not following. The law says the board of directors cannot modify and of the governing documents without approval by the home owners. Yet a home owner emailed me a question about this "rule making" paragraph. The interpretation is, we can make rules without their approval but rather that we just notify them. I am sure I am not reading it correctly so I am asking for your opinion:

SECTION 16. RULEMAKING. Before adopting, amending or repealing any rule, the Board of Directors shall give all unit owners of its intention to adopt, amend or repeal a rule and provide the text of the rule or proposed change and a date on which the Board of Directors will act on the proposed rule amendment after considering comments from unit owners. Following adoption, amendment or repeal of a rule, the Association shall notify the unit owners of its action and provide a copy of any new or revised rule.

The Corporation may adopt rules to establish and enforce construction and design criteria and aesthetic standards if the Declarations so provide. If the Declarations so provide, the Corporation shall adopt procedures for enforcement of those standards and for approval of construction applications, including a reasonable time within the Corporation must act after an application is submitted and the consequence of its failure to act.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Basically its saying:

1) Board needs to inform the membership of a proposed rule or rule change along with the written proposal and when the Board will meet to make it's decision.

2) The membership has a right to be heard at the Board meeting, prior to the vote, concerning the rule or rule change.

3) Once adopted, the Board must provide a written copy of the adopted rule/rule change to the membership.

The Association has the authority to adopt rules and procedures.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Chances are high that what the Kansas statutes say is that neither the HOA's Declaration nor the Bylaws can be amended without the consent of the members. But remember there is usually at least one other governing document: The HOA Rules & Regulations. Typically, a HOA Declaration authorizes a Board to make specific Rules & Regulations implementing the goals of the Declaration. The Rules & Regs should not contradict any part of the Declaration or Bylaws. The attorney who prepared this paragraph did so in a way that seems usual.

It might help to write back this member that there is a hierarchy of documents that control what a HOA can do (assuming the Declarant is out of the picture). It's roughly as follows:

Federal law and state law (HOA as an entity has no meaningful control over these)
Municipal Code (HOA as an entity has no meaningful control over this)
Declaration (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Articles of Incorporation (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Bylaws (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Rules & Regulations (often can be amended by Board acting alone, with members' consent not needed)
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GreggK2 on 07/21/2016 8:34 PM
The Corporation may adopt rules to establish and enforce construction and design criteria and aesthetic standards if the Declarations so provide. If the Declarations so provide, the Corporation shall adopt procedures for enforcement of those standards and for approval of construction applications, including a reasonable time within the Corporation must act after an application is submitted and the consequence of its failure to act.

This is a common phrase, I believe that is referring to Home Owners who are requesting to make modifications to their property. Our Docs state that you must submit your request in writing, give examples of what you want to do. IE: website links, pictures, drawings etc.... It also states that the BOD or Building Committee has 45 days to respond to your request. If they do not, as a Home Owner, you may proceed, just as if you were given permission to do so, without fear of retaliation.

Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/21/2016 8:53 PM

Federal law and state law (HOA as an entity has no meaningful control over these)
Municipal Code (HOA as an entity has no meaningful control over this)
Declaration (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Articles of Incorporation (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Bylaws (can be amended by vote of members but not by Board acting alone)
Rules & Regulations (often can be amended by Board acting alone, with members' consent not needed)


Impressive! I have spent the last week writing up an article for our community website, concerning this very issue of our Documents Authority. I am going to delete two pages and simply cut and paste your paragraph above. Thank You!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Dana, for Virginia, I think the following is even better, from http://blog.tarleyrobinson.com/?p=700:

1. Case Law and Statutes (see web site above for specific statutes);
2. Declaration and Plats;
3. Articles of Incorporation;
4. Bylaws;
5. Rules and Regulations;
6. Board Resolutions

Tim (of Virginia) can probably improve on this.

I would also quote --

-- any sections of the Bylaws and Declarations that speak of conflicts between any of the above.

-- how 2. through 6. are amended

Folks can google for {hierarchy HOA "governing documents" statutes} to turn up similar web sites.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with the interpretation of others, Gregg. A part that's confusing is, "...Directors shall give all unit owners of its intention to adopt..." I believe "notice" should precede "of."

This is almost identical to the requirement in CA about Rules. CA does specify, though, that the notice period is 30 days during which time Owners may send written comments to the board to be considered at its next meeting. In CA, too, the notice of a rules change/addition, etc., does not need to be sent by US mail, so most in our HOA are sent by email.

Another good source, Dana, of many HOA topics is davis-stirling.com, which is a site put together by a CA HOA law firm. While much is specific to CA Law, the Davis-Stirling legislation in particular, there's a whole lot about general HOA matters including the hierarchy of docs. In action, scrolling their Main Index, you'll find tips for forming good contracts and many other useful opinions & discussions.

I have seen on the forum, Augustin, a few HOAs where the board alone may amend Bylaws. I remember being surprised the first time I saw this.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/22/2016 8:16 AM
I have seen on the forum, Augustin, a few HOAs where the board alone may amend Bylaws. I remember being surprised the first time I saw this.


In my HOA, amendments to CC&Rs require homeowner vote. Needs 67% of all owners to pass.

Amendments to Bylaws only require homeowner ratification. Needs 51% of all owners to defeat.

Huge difference.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/22/2016 7:45 AM
Hi Dana, for Virginia, I think the following is even better, from http://blog.tarleyrobinson.com/?p=700:

I like yours better. :0. I have followed that site for close to 4 years and I am on their e-mail list. I also have them listed on our Community Website.

Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/22/2016 8:16 AM
Another good source, Dana, of many HOA topics is davis-stirling.com, which is a site put together by a CA HOA law firm. While much is specific to CA Law, the Davis-Stirling legislation in particular, there's a whole lot about general HOA matters including the hierarchy of docs. In action, scrolling their Main Index, you'll find tips for forming good contracts and many other useful opinions & discussions.

Thanks for the link, I have added them to our site as well. I think I may need to pack a lunch, when I start digging into their articles!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your %-ages are the same as in my HOA, NpS.

I'm just saying that in some HOAs apparently the board alone can mend the Bylaws. I'm glad ours require a simple majority of Owners.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/22/2016 11:09 AM
Your %-ages are the same as in my HOA, NpS.

I'm just saying that in some HOAs apparently the board alone can mend the Bylaws. I'm glad ours require a simple majority of Owners.

Actually, the wording I used might have been misleading.

The ratification process goes like this:

1. Board majority approves Bylaw change;
2. Put to a ratification vote of the owners;
3. Ratification will occur UNLESS 51% of the owners vote AGAINST it.

We will never have 51% of the owners vote AGAINST anything unless what the board has proposed is totally bonkers.

I assume that your system requires 51% approval by the owners. That's a lot harder than our system which requires 51% to DEFEAT the board's decision.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're right, NpS, I did misundertstand.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/22/2016 9:11 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/22/2016 8:16 AM
I have seen on the forum, Augustin, a few HOAs where the board alone may amend Bylaws. I remember being surprised the first time I saw this.


In my HOA, amendments to CC&Rs require homeowner vote. Needs 67% of all owners to pass.

Amendments to Bylaws only require homeowner ratification. Needs 51% of all owners to defeat.

Huge difference.

Ours are similar.
To Amend:
Declaration .... requires 67% of homeowners to pass (document states 75% but CCIOA over rules)
Articles ....... " 75% " "
By-Laws ........ " 51% " "

However, What if the Declaration is amended (more like restated)and EVERYTHING is included in that document. That would make the Articles and the By-Laws useless - in effect the 75% needed for Articles wouldn't matter.

Am I reading this correctly?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Linda, pardon if I am misunderstanding your question. FWIW recent events at my HOA have led to a study of the case law on discretionary covenants, including covenants that permit amendment. Nationwide the case law says that, where a proposed amendment effectively defeats the original scheme or plan envisioned by the original covenants, or where the amendment defeats the covenants in general, then the amendment is not allowed. That is, upon court challenge, a court would throw out such an amendment. It's partly to preclude a tyranny of the minority, given all members signed on agreeing to comply with the Declaration, Articles, and Bylaws.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
To clarify, we would still have the Articles and By-Laws but in case there was a conflict in the documents, the declarations would control.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Me thinks this chat has veered from the OP's question which was concerning Rules/Regulations, not Covenants nor Bylaws.

Problem is many think them all the same and the drift of this chat enables such thinking.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with you, John. And Tim answered the OP's question very clearly.
LindaS27 (Colorado)
Posts: 236
Posted:
Gregg posted "We submitted our Bylaws to our attorney months ago because they were 12 years old an no longer conformed to Kansas Statutes. He added a number of things but it is the one paragraph that I am not following."

Bylaws do not have to be amended just because there are new state laws.

Beware of attorneys amending documents!

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