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ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I recently made a post about my HOA and something shady happening in it. So now I am seeking further advice. I will lay out the facts that I have 100% proof of.

First, I was finally able to get a hold of our HOA board, kind of. My son was riding his bike outside on the street and he told me some lady was taking his picture. I went to go see and this woman introduced herself to me and told me that she was with the HOA board and that our kids were not allowed to ride their bike on the street. Nothing in the bylaws about this, but I was playing it cool to see what else she would say.

As I was talking with the woman who said she was the "Director of Security" she began to tell me about some of the things in the HOA. Apparently she was arrested several months ago for getting into it with the renter living next door to her. She told me that she was charged with 2 felonies and two misdemeanors. I was told there was a vacancy for the Vice President. During that convo she also mentioned that she wanted to pay the treasurer. This is specifically against the bylaws, but I didn't say anything just acknowledged her.

About two weeks later I was talking to her inquiring about the status of getting me appointed to the board. She told me that the President had concerns and didn't want anyone on the board who would conflict with the "director of security" and to make sure she was protected since she has had problems with people before. She also told me that the board can do anything and that they do not even have to show financial records (I know they have to) She wanted me to send her my resume. Part of her reasoning which again I just acknowledged her, was that the police department was racist against her which is why she was arrested. I would not take her side in this and I was noncommittal. I think she was looking for someone to champion her side of things.

So last night I decided to do some research, the following are the facts I uncovered:

1) She is in the process of Bankruptcy (why this means something later).

2) She is a convicted felon (assault with a deadly weapon), domestic violence, child abuse (Incident with neighbor).

3) She is on probation.

4) The President does not own a home in this community and is her personal friend.

5) The Treasurer does not own a home in the community and is her personal friend.

Why all of this concerns me. When we were talking she was discussing how she was "acting in the interest of the HOA" when she was arrested. She wants to HOA to help her because it is the right thing to do. She said because of her arrest she might loose her home and the association needs to help her and she was looking for my support. I can easily see her and her two friends taking the HOA money to "help" her especially since she has significant financial problems.

So with that said, I researched the bylaws. The qualification to be a board member are to be a member in good standing. To be a member of the HOA you have to own one of the 14 properties. Therefore, the president and treasurer are not eligible to be board members. Her being a convicted felon on probation I thought was going to be a problem, but I don't see anything in our bylaws about it or in California law, so I can get two of the three off the board.

So here is my plan let me know if it passes a sanity check:

1) I am going to request the names of all eligible members and voting rights. The purpose is to verify who all of the members are. I want to take this to the special meeting later.

2) I am going to request the financial information. I don't know if she has taken money for personal use, but I want to prevent it by documenting what we have on the exact day that I look at the books and copy them.

3) I am going to send a petition to the Property management company demanding a special meeting to present my evidence and to recall all of the officers. We need 5% of members to sign the petition (one person is 7%).

With her history and her history of violence. I am fairly certain as soon as I initiate these actions I am going to get blowback from her. I am not to worried as my family can handle themselves if need be.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM
1) I am going to request the names of all eligible members and voting rights. The purpose is to verify who all of the members are. I want to take this to the special meeting later.
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

Go to the county assessors office. You can get the name and mailing address of all the title holders there. Those are the people who are eligible to vote.

Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM
2) I am going to request the financial information. I don't know if she has taken money for personal use, but I want to prevent it by documenting what we have on the exact day that I look at the books and copy them.
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

If what you say is correct, at least 2 people on your board aren't authorized to be there. Yet they're in control. I don't understand why you would bother going to them with your requests instead of just replacing them.

Call for an election. Vote others in, including yourself. Then you have access to all the docs you want.

With only 14 units, that election should be quick and easy.

It's quite possible that the election will take place and you will be in control long before you get anything from this group.

Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM
3) I am going to send a petition to the Property management company demanding a special meeting to present my evidence and to recall all of the officers. We need 5% of members to sign the petition (one person is 7%).
In saying that you are going to send the petition to the PMC, I'm guessing that you haven't read your docs yet on who such a petition has to go to. If you're going to accomplish what you want, you had better know your docs inside and out before you take this on.

Petition for a new election. Get the 4-7 votes you need to install a new board.

Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM
With her history and her history of violence. I am fairly certain as soon as I initiate these actions I am going to get blowback from her. I am not to worried as my family can handle themselves if need be.

Your comments are way too personal for my taste. She isn't the issue. The issue is that you are without a board that is looking out for the financial interests of the community. Get the votes you need and toss the bums out.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If your Bylaws say that directors must be members in good standing, it means they must own in your community. Simply make a written reqs jest to management for a list of Owners, their HOA addresses and their mailing addresses. Then you can see if those two are Owners.

Also request in writing your HOA's Election Rules, which are required in CA. There may be a clauses in there that prohibits convicted felons form serving on the Board.

But there's soooo much else and, sorry to say, I can't get into these other things tonight.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Geez. Really messed that on up. Will try a re-do.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Shawn,

First keep in mind that Directors and Officers are two different positions. It is typical for the same individual to hold both the seat of a Director and an Officer position. However, that is like having two jobs. Directors typically are volunteer and are often prohibited from receiving compensation for performing their duties. However, Officers can be paid if so desired (but it is not normally done).

Officers are appointed by and serve at the pleasure of the Board. The membership has zero say on who serves as an Officer and likely has zero authority to remove anyone from an Officer position.

Directors are elected by the membership or may appointed by the Board to fill vacancies on the Board.

With 14 properties, you would only need 1 lot to call the special meeting (based on your 5% requirement). However, it's better to obtain more than the minimum. Additionally, if you recall the Directors, you will need volunteers to serve in the vacant seats you create with the recall. If you don't have the volunteers, then calling for a recall is almost pointless.

You may do better to wait until they appoint you to the Board. Then work yourself into a position to see the info you wish to see and take action from within the Board to correct things.

Hope this helps,

Tim
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
CORRECTED (I hope):

Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

1) I am going to request the names of all eligible members and voting rights. The purpose is to verify who all of the members are. I want to take this to the special meeting later.

Go to the county assessors office. You can get the name and mailing address of all the title holders there. Those are the people who are eligible to vote.

Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

2) I am going to request the financial information. I don't know if she has taken money for personal use, but I want to prevent it by documenting what we have on the exact day that I look at the books and copy them.

If what you say is correct, at least 2 people on your board aren't authorized to be there. Yet they're in control. I don't understand why you would bother going to them with your requests instead of just replacing them.

Call for an election. Vote others in, including yourself. Then you have access to all the docs you want.

With only 14 units, that election should be quick and easy.

It's quite possible that the election will take place and you will be in control long before you get anything from this group.
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

3) I am going to send a petition to the Property management company demanding a special meeting to present my evidence and to recall all of the officers. We need 5% of members to sign the petition (one person is 7%).

In saying that you are going to send the petition to the PMC, I'm guessing that you haven't read your docs yet on who such a petition has to go to. If you're going to accomplish what you want, you had better know your docs inside and out before you take this on.

Petition for a new election. Get the 4-7 votes you need to install a new board.
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

With her history and her history of violence. I am fairly certain as soon as I initiate these actions I am going to get blowback from her. I am not to worried as my family can handle themselves if need be.

Your comments are way too personal for my taste. She isn't the issue. The issue is that you are without a board that is looking out for the financial interests of the community. Get the votes you need and toss the bums out.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:

Your comments are way too personal for my taste. She isn't the issue. The issue is that you are without a board that is looking out for the financial interests of the community. Get the votes you need and toss the bums out.

First thank you for y our information.

As far as the personal stuff. I just found out from my 10 year old that she has pushed him 3 times and cursed at him. This is after she has been arrested, on probation and in anger management classes!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

4) The President does not own a home in this community and is her personal friend.

5) The Treasurer does not own a home in the community and is her personal friend.
...
So with that said, I researched the bylaws. The qualification to be a board member are to be a member in good standing. To be a member of the HOA you have to own one of the 14 properties. Therefore, the president and treasurer are not eligible to be board members.

Like Tim was saying, you need to understand that many HOAs distinguish between directors and officers (= President, Vice-President, Treasurer, Secretary). Some HOAs allow non-members to serve as officers but not directors. Can you do a little more research and see what your Bylaws say about the requirements for being an officer?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 8:56 PM

Your comments are way too personal for my taste. She isn't the issue. The issue is that you are without a board that is looking out for the financial interests of the community. Get the votes you need and toss the bums out.


First thank you for y our information.

As far as the personal stuff. I just found out from my 10 year old that she has pushed him 3 times and cursed at him. This is after she has been arrested, on probation and in anger management classes!

Which battle do you want to fight now. One at a time is all I'm saying.

If you want to call the cops on her fine. Go after her for what she did to your son. I'm good with all that.

But IMO, that's a different battle than what's going on with your HOA.

If I lived in your community and you showed me where you wanted to replace unauthorized board members, I'd get behind you in a minute.

On the other hand, if you told me that a board member pushed your kid around, you might not have my support.

Just one person's opinion though.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/21/2016 9:06 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

4) The President does not own a home in this community and is her personal friend.

5) The Treasurer does not own a home in the community and is her personal friend.
...
So with that said, I researched the bylaws. The qualification to be a board member are to be a member in good standing. To be a member of the HOA you have to own one of the 14 properties. Therefore, the president and treasurer are not eligible to be board members.


Like Tim was saying, you need to understand that many HOAs distinguish between directors and officers (= President, Vice-President, Treasurer, Secretary). Some HOAs allow non-members to serve as officers but not directors. Can you do a little more research and see what your Bylaws say about the requirements for being an officer?

Thanks. Yes I will do a little more research into the distinction.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/21/2016 9:07 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 8:56 PM

Your comments are way too personal for my taste. She isn't the issue. The issue is that you are without a board that is looking out for the financial interests of the community. Get the votes you need and toss the bums out.


First thank you for y our information.

As far as the personal stuff. I just found out from my 10 year old that she has pushed him 3 times and cursed at him. This is after she has been arrested, on probation and in anger management classes!


Which battle do you want to fight now. One at a time is all I'm saying.

If you want to call the cops on her fine. Go after her for what she did to your son. I'm good with all that.

But IMO, that's a different battle than what's going on with your HOA.

If I lived in your community and you showed me where you wanted to replace unauthorized board members, I'd get behind you in a minute.

On the other hand, if you told me that a board member pushed your kid around, you might not have my support.

Just one person's opinion though.

I appreciate your opinion. If I can get her out, two birds with one stone thing. I rather keep the police out of it. I am irritated that she touched my son, but I talked to him and he knows if she is around then to go inside and get an adult. I thought you were referring to me saying that she has a propensity for violence was to personal for you.

But you are right, one fight. Unless she actually injures my son, then I will focus on the HOA stuff. I know I am too close to this, so I really do appreciate disinterested third party opinions.

With regards to getting the members names, HOA address and mailing address. I need to send a certified letter correct?
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/21/2016 9:06 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 7:39 PM

4) The President does not own a home in this community and is her personal friend.

5) The Treasurer does not own a home in the community and is her personal friend.
...
So with that said, I researched the bylaws. The qualification to be a board member are to be a member in good standing. To be a member of the HOA you have to own one of the 14 properties. Therefore, the president and treasurer are not eligible to be board members.


Like Tim was saying, you need to understand that many HOAs distinguish between directors and officers (= President, Vice-President, Treasurer, Secretary). Some HOAs allow non-members to serve as officers but not directors. Can you do a little more research and see what your Bylaws say about the requirements for being an officer?

ok here is what I found:

The principle officers of the Association shall be a President, Vice President, Secretary and a Treasurer all of who shall be elected by and from the Board of Directors.

That is the specific language so it appears that they have to be board members to be officers, thus, members of the HOA.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:22 PM
With regards to getting the members names, HOA address and mailing address. I need to send a certified letter correct?

Getting ahead of yourself.

You need to call a special meeting for the election of new board members. Do you know the exact requirements and procedures you need to follow to do that? They're in your docs. Read them. Post the relevant sections here. Then ask for advice.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:31 PM

ok here is what I found:

The principle officers of the Association shall be a President, Vice President, Secretary and a Treasurer all of who shall be elected by and from the Board of Directors.

That is the specific language so it appears that they have to be board members to be officers, thus, members of the HOA.

That is incorrect.

As I stated earlier and as your documents specify, the Officers are elected/appointed by the Board. That is all the citation you provided is saying.

Unless you have a qualifier within your governing documents that Officers must be a member of the Board (a Director), which is often common for the Offices of President and VP, then anyone may serve as an Officer. Your Board could appoint me as an Officer if they so desired.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/21/2016 9:42 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:22 PM
With regards to getting the members names, HOA address and mailing address. I need to send a certified letter correct?

Getting ahead of yourself.

You need to call a special meeting for the election of new board members. Do you know the exact requirements and procedures you need to follow to do that? They're in your docs. Read them. Post the relevant sections here. Then ask for advice.


Here we go:

It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

Within twenty (20) days after receipt of a resolution or request demanding a special meeting, the Secretary shall give written notice thereof to all of the Members as herein provided, which shall specify the date , time, and place of the meeting and the matters to be considered at such meeting.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/21/2016 9:49 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:31 PM

ok here is what I found:

The principle officers of the Association shall be a President, Vice President, Secretary and a Treasurer all of who shall be elected by and from the Board of Directors.

That is the specific language so it appears that they have to be board members to be officers, thus, members of the HOA.


That is incorrect.

As I stated earlier and as your documents specify, the Officers are elected/appointed by the Board. That is all the citation you provided is saying.

Unless you have a qualifier within your governing documents that Officers must be a member of the Board (a Director), which is often common for the Offices of President and VP, then anyone may serve as an Officer. Your Board could appoint me as an Officer if they so desired.

That's exactly what it says....officers are elected by the board FROM the board.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I stand corrected.

You are correct, all officers must be Directors based on that language.

Sorry about that (it's been a long day).
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/21/2016 9:55 PM
I stand corrected.

You are correct, all officers must be Directors based on that language.

Sorry about that (it's been a long day).

No thanks, I appreciate it. I am trying to learn all I can.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:52 PM
It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

Within twenty (20) days after receipt of a resolution or request demanding a special meeting, the Secretary shall give written notice thereof to all of the Members as herein provided, which shall specify the date , time, and place of the meeting and the matters to be considered at such meeting.

Ok. So now you know who notice goes to. And you know that your board has to send official notices.

Next. This isn't just a special meeting. It's also an election. Can you post your rules about elections?

When was the last election? Do you have copies of the materials that were used?


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Shawn

I will try and sort this out.

1) I am curious, with 14 unit, how many Board members do you have?

2) With 14 units, even though required, I am guessing you won't have Election Rules.

3) Unless your Bylaws state otherwise, all the terrible thing the one person is, does not disqualify them from the Board as long as they are an owner.

3) The petition for a special meeting needs to be addressed to the Board of Directors, in care of the property management company. Only the Board has authority to call the meeting unless they fail to meet a deadline, the the petitioner can set the time and place and preside over it.

4) If you have a Board of three, which is reasonable with 14 units, and you Bylaws state that Directors must be members/owners, then two of your Board members are gone, which mean association activity ceases, as you need a quorum (2) to conduct business.

Director Security mean absolutely nothing.

Do you have people to set up and volunteer their time to run the community? If not, all is meaningless.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/21/2016 10:04 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:52 PM
It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

Within twenty (20) days after receipt of a resolution or request demanding a special meeting, the Secretary shall give written notice thereof to all of the Members as herein provided, which shall specify the date , time, and place of the meeting and the matters to be considered at such meeting.

Ok. So now you know who notice goes to. And you know that your board has to send official notices.

Next. This isn't just a special meeting. It's also an election. Can you post your rules about elections?

When was the last election? Do you have copies of the materials that were used?


Ok one problem with sending the any board member. I still do not have their contact information. The property management company will not provide me that info. I keep asking but they will not give it, they keep saying they will send it and never do.

First your questions. I have no idea when the last meeting was. When I purchased the house the certification from the property management company said no meetings were held so there were no minutes.

As far as the last materials that were used. I don't have those either, not provided to me. The "director of Security" said that they can just elect who they want, they don't need to hold elections.

I will post the relavent sections of the election rules tomorrow evening. Thank you everyone for your advice and help. I would probably be making some big mistakes without it.
ShawnC2 (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/21/2016 10:24 PM
Shawn

I will try and sort this out.

1) I am curious, with 14 unit, how many Board members do you have?

2) With 14 units, even though required, I am guessing you won't have Election Rules.

3) Unless your Bylaws state otherwise, all the terrible thing the one person is, does not disqualify them from the Board as long as they are an owner.

3) The petition for a special meeting needs to be addressed to the Board of Directors, in care of the property management company. Only the Board has authority to call the meeting unless they fail to meet a deadline, the the petitioner can set the time and place and preside over it.

4) If you have a Board of three, which is reasonable with 14 units, and you Bylaws state that Directors must be members/owners, then two of your Board members are gone, which mean association activity ceases, as you need a quorum (2) to conduct business.

Director Security mean absolutely nothing.

Do you have people to set up and volunteer their time to run the community? If not, all is meaningless.

1) We are supposed to have at least 3 and no more than 5.

2)We have a voting section, not sure about if that is the same as election.

3) Right, which is why I don't think we can just boot her and have to elect her out of the position.

3b) Thank you! Very helpful to me!

4) Two of the board members were never owners, they are just friends of the third board member.

Your right, director of security is what she calls herself. She is really trying to cloud her role in the board. In one conversation she said she was not on the board. But all communication to and from the board go through her.

Honestly no, I have one other person and that is it, and they are a maybe. I am going to work on getting one more and hopefully firm up the one I have. I understand the sentiment that its all for nothing, but I don't think we should have people who are not even apart of our HOA having access to our money. Honestly, we are 14 units, we have a property management company, there is not a lot for us to do. We honestly don't even need to property management company. But that is not my concern right now.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
ShawnC2, thank you for the clarification. So you do have two impostors serving on the Board. I think you should write a letter to the Board (such as it is) and inform them of this serious violation of the governing documents and probably state law. In the letter ask the two impostors to cease having to do anything with the HOA. The remaining director needs to set up an election a.s.a.p. or possibly simply appoint one other (who is a bona fide member of the HOA). Then the two of them (both being directors and members) select a third member as a director. When the gov docs say to run an election, they run one, with the help of the property manager.

Should the two impostors refuse to step down, get an injunction from court, naming the HOA and the two impostors as defendants, to force this. Within the injunction seek reimbursement from the HOA and two impostors for the cost of doing this. No guarantees on the reimbursement.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Any reputable property management company knows, based on your Bylaws, they are conducting business illegally. You have a Board one. You cannot conduct business with only one Board member.

I could find 10 things wrong at $500.00 a piece and go after the property management company in small claims court. They have a fiduciary duty to follow the law or statues.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/22/2016 12:02 AM
Any reputable property management company knows, based on your Bylaws, they are conducting business illegally. You have a Board one. You cannot conduct business with only one Board member.

I could find 10 things wrong at $500.00 a piece and go after the property management company in small claims court. They have a fiduciary duty to follow the law or statues.

Let's be clear here: If hypothetically and despite all reasonable efforts, only one HOA member is willing to serve as a director, then a property manager is within her/his rights to conduct HOA business and is likely contractually obligated to do so.

Is the HOA supposed to cease operation when not all the board positions are filled? The courts say no. The courts do not want to force a receiver on a HOA. The courts say a one-person volunteer director is better than a one-person receiver charging outrageous fees to run the HOA. Whatever legitimate board members are serving try to fill the empty board slots but if they cannot, the HOA remains with its legal obligations to its members and the need, usually, for a property manager.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/22/2016 12:34 AM

Let's be clear here: If hypothetically and despite all reasonable efforts, only one HOA member is willing to serve as a director, then a property manager is within her/his rights to conduct HOA business and is likely contractually obligated to do so.

Our Docs state the same thing. If the HOA Board cannot conduct business for the Association, then it falls to the PMC to conduct business.

@ShawnC2, (California). Maybe you can go shopping for a new PMC. Tell them a little about your situation and inform them that if they can assist you, you will recommend they take over that position. I am a staunch believer that no PMC should ever run the HOA, as long as there are Members in good standing, willing to take on the challenge.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 11:13 PM
Posted By NpS on 07/21/2016 10:04 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:52 PM
It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

Within twenty (20) days after receipt of a resolution or request demanding a special meeting, the Secretary shall give written notice thereof to all of the Members as herein provided, which shall specify the date , time, and place of the meeting and the matters to be considered at such meeting.

Ok. So now you know who notice goes to. And you know that your board has to send official notices.

Next. This isn't just a special meeting. It's also an election. Can you post your rules about elections?

When was the last election? Do you have copies of the materials that were used?



Ok one problem with sending the any board member. I still do not have their contact information. The property management company will not provide me that info. I keep asking but they will not give it, they keep saying they will send it and never do.

First your questions. I have no idea when the last meeting was. When I purchased the house the certification from the property management company said no meetings were held so there were no minutes.

As far as the last materials that were used. I don't have those either, not provided to me. The "director of Security" said that they can just elect who they want, they don't need to hold elections.

I will post the relavent sections of the election rules tomorrow evening. Thank you everyone for your advice and help. I would probably be making some big mistakes without it.


1. When you are ready (and you are not ready yet) you will address your petition to the Secretary of the HOA c/o the the PMCs address.

2. It seems obvious from your response that there hasn't been an election for years. If you have 3 seats then all of them are RIPE for a new election. You want 3 new board members elected at the special meeting that you will ask for.

3. If you have something in your docs about elections, post them when you get them. You will get good explanations here.

4. Once you understand your docs, your next step is to start recruiting your neighbors. Knock on doors and ring bells. But you shouldn't do this until AFTER you know EXACTLY what your docs say about what you need to do to hold an election. You also need two others who will agree to sit on the board with you.

5. With 14 houses, you only need 4-7 to agree with you. That shouldn't be difficult if the others have similar gripes to yours.

6. Stay focused on your mission.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
CORRECTED:

Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/22/2016 3:24 AM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 11:13 PM
Posted By NpS on 07/21/2016 10:04 PM
Posted By ShawnC2 on 07/21/2016 9:52 PM
It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

Within twenty (20) days after receipt of a resolution or request demanding a special meeting, the Secretary shall give written notice thereof to all of the Members as herein provided, which shall specify the date , time, and place of the meeting and the matters to be considered at such meeting.

Ok. So now you know who notice goes to. And you know that your board has to send official notices.

Next. This isn't just a special meeting. It's also an election. Can you post your rules about elections?

When was the last election? Do you have copies of the materials that were used?



Ok one problem with sending the any board member. I still do not have their contact information. The property management company will not provide me that info. I keep asking but they will not give it, they keep saying they will send it and never do.

First your questions. I have no idea when the last meeting was. When I purchased the house the certification from the property management company said no meetings were held so there were no minutes.

As far as the last materials that were used. I don't have those either, not provided to me. The "director of Security" said that they can just elect who they want, they don't need to hold elections.

I will post the relavent sections of the election rules tomorrow evening. Thank you everyone for your advice and help. I would probably be making some big mistakes without it.


1. When you are ready (and you are not ready yet) you will address your petition to the Secretary of the HOA c/o the the PMCs address.

2. It seems obvious from your response that there hasn't been an election for years. If you have 3 seats then all of them are RIPE for a new election. You want 3 new board members elected at the special meeting that you will ask for.

3. If you have something in your docs about elections, post them when you get them. You will get good explanations here.

4. Once you understand your docs, your next step is to start recruiting your neighbors. Knock on doors and ring bells. But you shouldn't do this until AFTER you know EXACTLY what your docs say about what you need to do to hold an election. You also need two others who will agree to sit on the board with you.

5. With 14 houses, you only need 4-8 to agree with you. That shouldn't be difficult if the others have similar gripes to yours.

6. Stay focused on your mission.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Shawn, as you said:

It shall be the duty of the President to call a special meeting of the Members as directed by resolution of the Board of Directors or upon petition signed by five percent (5%) of the Members having been presented to the Secretary. The notice of any special meeting shall state the time and place of such meeting and the purpose thereof. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice unless by consent of four-fifths (4/5) of the Members present.

A Special Meeting is not just a bytch, show them, she pushed my son, she is a criminal, etc. meeting. It must have a stated purpose such as to present why specific BOD Members are not eligible to serve as per the Bylaws and elect a new BOD consisting of homeowners only as per the Bylaws. This means to be prepared to hold an election.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Shawn

When it's time to go door to door, attached is a nice one-page document for you to talk from and/or hand out.

Showing that you are a knowledgeable, prepared, and concerned member of your community will get you the results you need.

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄172252959571.pdf(90 KB)

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/22/2016 12:34 AM
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/22/2016 12:02 AM
Any reputable property management company knows, based on your Bylaws, they are conducting business illegally. You have a Board one. You cannot conduct business with only one Board member.

I could find 10 things wrong at $500.00 a piece and go after the property management company in small claims court. They have a fiduciary duty to follow the law or statues.


Let's be clear here: If hypothetically and despite all reasonable efforts, only one HOA member is willing to serve as a director, then a property manager is within her/his rights to conduct HOA business and is likely contractually obligated to do so.

Is the HOA supposed to cease operation when not all the board positions are filled? The courts say no. The courts do not want to force a receiver on a HOA. The courts say a one-person volunteer director is better than a one-person receiver charging outrageous fees to run the HOA. Whatever legitimate board members are serving try to fill the empty board slots but if they cannot, the HOA remains with its legal obligations to its members and the need, usually, for a property manager.

REALLY. You have a court case to share? This is California. I am a property management company and without a Board, I am SOL.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/22/2016 8:26 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/22/2016 12:34 AM
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/22/2016 12:02 AM
Any reputable property management company knows, based on your Bylaws, they are conducting business illegally. You have a Board one. You cannot conduct business with only one Board member.

I could find 10 things wrong at $500.00 a piece and go after the property management company in small claims court. They have a fiduciary duty to follow the law or statues.


Let's be clear here: If hypothetically and despite all reasonable efforts, only one HOA member is willing to serve as a director, then a property manager is within her/his rights to conduct HOA business and is likely contractually obligated to do so.

Is the HOA supposed to cease operation when not all the board positions are filled? The courts say no. The courts do not want to force a receiver on a HOA. The courts say a one-person volunteer director is better than a one-person receiver charging outrageous fees to run the HOA. Whatever legitimate board members are serving try to fill the empty board slots but if they cannot, the HOA remains with its legal obligations to its members and the need, usually, for a property manager.


REALLY. You have a court case to share? This is California. I am a property management company and without a Board, I am SOL.

What I wrote is what my favorite HOA attorney said on the subject. It is supported in large part by the reality that the governing documents for the typical HOA typically specify what it takes to dissolve a HOA. Typically it takes a certain high percentage of the members to vote to dissolve the HOA and succeed in doing so.

If one person is willing to serve on the Board, then there is still a board. It's not precisely what the governing docs call for, but pitted against the reality that the HOA still exists until it is terminated by a lawful vote of the members, the one-person Board prevails over a non-existent vote to dissolve.

If no one is willing to serve on the board, then I would not say a HOA manager is SOL. I would say the HOA manager should seek the advice of counsel on how to proceed. The concern is a charge of ultra vires.

You make it sound like the covenants just up-and-disappear when no one wants to serve on a HOA board. They do not. Declarations typically say the covenants run with the land. The Covenants remain legally powerful. For example, often Declarations provide for one member to sue another member if the covenants are violated by the second member.

I am happy to agree to disagree.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Augustine

I am sorry, but my contract does not allow me to act alone and without the authority of the Board. Every contract for an HOA that I have been involved says the same thing. Again, it would be the Board that would need to seek legal advice on how to proceed, as they are the only one(s) allowed to appoint additional Board members.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/22/2016 9:56 PM
Augustine

I am sorry, but my contract does not allow me to act alone and without the authority of the Board. Every contract for an HOA that I have been involved says the same thing. Again, it would be the Board that would need to seek legal advice on how to proceed, as they are the only one(s) allowed to appoint additional Board members.

I agree a HOA manager is not supposed to act alone. Where you and I seem to disagree is what constitutes a Board.

No big deal.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
AugustinD

A Board can be one, but what actions they can undertake will be determined by the size of the Board. For instance, a Board of five can't take action if only two attend a meeting. No different if an Annual meeting is called and less than required quorum of member is present by the prescribed means.

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