Can Member Bring to the Floor for Vote?

At an Open Meeting, can a member bring to the floor a proposal for a vote from the members present even if the majority of the Board is against it? A member at their expense has asked the HOA to allow the three Structural Engineers to resolve the discrepancies in their Engineering studies for the installation of a 600lb in a upstairs condo in an expanded kitchen.

The member has been told that they cannot install a 600lb island in their expanded kitchen because the HOA legal council Structural Engineer provided a study stating the floor would fail for a trial with this member that ended in the favor or the HOA. The member did not asked for permission.

The homeowner has two State Licensed Structural Engineering Reports stating that this is safe. They have consistently had their remodeling project monitor by the City. At this homeowner expense, they want permission to get the three State License Structural Engineers to resolve the discrepancies. Our HOA has not responded to their request.

Because this is a safety issue which affects all upstairs units (e.g. heavy tables, pool table and even large parties across similar areas in these condos), this issue needs to be brought to a resolution. Since this cost the HOA no money, the Board should allow this to happen to provide a single report following proper engineering practices. I can probably get a second from a new Board member. But I believe that Board would vote against this. I believe the members present would vote for it.

Can this be done and is it binding?

Consequences

The HOA file an injunction claiming a safety issue, and then went on a witch hunt to find something. This trial cost over a 100k with our HOA is now running an $83K deficit for last three months. Our HOA only brings in $80k a month in assessments. Banks declines loans, cash purchases are turn into rentals and property values have dropped. If the report shows that it is safe, it will shows that the HOA went to trial for nonsense.

For Background see http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/214850/Default.aspx#214950

Michael

Proper notice to ALL homeowners is required before such action could be undertaken. The tricky part would be for the Board to place on the agenda for the members to vote, one way or the other, but in reality, it is NOT binding, as the Board could simply ignore the wishes of the members.

That being said, the other alternative is calling a special meeting specifically for that one topic. Here is the fun part. You MUST have a quorum, if required by your governing documents, of member present or by proxies, if allowed. No quorum, no vote.

Michael

I read the information on your website on how the election rules were changed and only having on site residents allowed to be on the Board. Without amending your Bylaws, THIS DOES NOT FLY. With a high number of rentals or investor owned properties, this rule is NOT reasonable.

I believe I answered your question.

Michael

Unless the Board cooperates, a member vote at a properly noticed meeting with that topic on the agenda mean absolutely NOTHING.

On chance is with a special meeting, and that could take up to four months to hold.

You're not listening Michael.

You are missing the point. They owner wants to install the island. Why should this be an issue? What does the ruling have to do with it?

Not actually the case.

HOA is represented by an HOA attorney that bled them dry. The homeowner didn't have the funds to retain an attorney and decided to go it alone. The Association paid for the engineer report, homeowner couldn't. You have a judge knowingly on the side of the HOA.

Who do you think is going to win?

Sorry,

Gonna disagree with you, but then again, I have more facts than you do.

Actually the member has already two engineering studies at the trial, but the court refuse to accept that evidence. The reason is their evidence was from a "factual witness" whereas the HOA's was had an opinion form an "Expert Witness". A "factual witness" was not allowed. Whatever that means.

The count case is not my problem. That is over. But this homeowner wants to install their island. Let only focus on that. They have two Structural Engineering Studies and the City saying it is safe. The Board has their one study saying is not. Do we have a safety issue for all upstairs units. (e.g. pianos, pools table, 4 guys in the same room?). This need to be resolved. From what everyone tells me, the Board would not respond to anything from the members. But I can asked them to answer the questions to resolve it. That is my plan now. And thanks to all of you that responded. HOA talk is very good for helping me to thinks things through.

I appreciate the word "BLEED" that was used in a couple of comments. What my Board has done is allowed an attorney to "BLEED" our HOA funds with the results that our property values had dropped, the number of rental properties have exceeded 50% and members unable to get financing. But the final question is HOW CAN THIS BE FIX. I have also discovered that this is not just an isolated problem.

BUT BUT BUT, for whatever reason and however it happened, Island Guy lost in court. The Board won in court. They don't have to do anything else.

I agree. The answer is back to court or replace the BOD and reconsider.

NO, I do not believe that it is unsafe. And I don't care what the Board believes. I only care about what a judge decided. Because at the end of the day, that's the only decision that counts regarding Island Guy's property.

Now maybe someone else has a similar complaint - let's call him Piano Guy. If Piano Guy goes to court and doesn't make the same stupid mistakes as Island Guy did, then a court could rule in Piano Guy's favor - A judge could go with the experts from either side. That's a risk you always take when you go to court.

So to sum it all up for you - There is a final decision on Island Guy - The board can disregard all of your ramblings because the board has a final decision in it's favor. As far as Piano Guy is concerned, the board can rely on it's own expert, but Piano Guy can challenge the board's decision with his own expert. That case doesn't exist yet, and the board doesn't have to do anything til a lawsuit is filed.

You cannot warn anyone about some statement of fact for all units - There is no ruling that applies to all units. You can warn homeowners not to be stupid when they go to court - That's a fact that applies to all unit owners.

Thanks Kerry.

I'm sure it's very frustrating to Michael that the judge never decided whose engineer was right. I would be angry too if my HOA spent a ton of money for the legal battle.

But I'm smart enough to know that I couldn't win a lawsuit against my HOA for spending that money. (What judge is going to find against the winner of a lawsuit? IMO, none.)

Michael's option is clear. It's not going to the courts. It's not going to the state licensing board for engineers. Those are dead ends.

Michael's only choice is to change the board membership by energizing the community to vote someone else in.

Michael is in an great position IMO to accomplish what you suggest. The HOA depends on Michael for his excellent job in maintaining web and electronic communications. I'm sure he has gained the trust and confidence of many of his neighbors.