HELP.. $100 fines in FL. When to start the clock?

Started by KathleenW3 • 6 replies • 1331 views

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KathleenW3 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I really need an answer on this asap. When does the $100.00 a day up to $1000.00 start? When does the clock start ticking? Here's the situation.

Our last property management company used to issue the fine if they did not show up to the Grievance Committee or the Grievance Committee issued the fine against them.

Our new property management company is now not starting the clock ticking until AFTER the Grievance Committee meeting.

Here's what I understand should happen?

1. get first notice with 30 days to cure
2. get 2nd notice with 30 days to cure
3. Not cured after 60 days? BOD says it agrees to fine the HO (per new law)
4. HO sent a notice to appear to determine if the fine the board is issuing should stick or should not stick.
5. HO attends the meeting and GC decides yes or no to the fine. The HO does not attend the meeting then they get fined.

The new PM company says that the $100 per day should start AFTER the Grievance Committee meeting and I think it should start when they are sent the letter to appear BUT with the final determination of the GC.

What do you do in your community?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We do not fine. However, the fine should start after the meeting when all parties have agreed to consequences. Otherwise, it is just BS. Plus many states one can not lien or foreclose for fines. So they hold no real value in those regards.

Former HOA President

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KathleenW3 on 07/15/2016 4:52 AM
I really need an answer on this asap. When does the $100.00 a day up to $1000.00 start? When does the clock start ticking? Here's the situation.

Our last property management company used to issue the fine if they did not show up to the Grievance Committee or the Grievance Committee issued the fine against them.

Our new property management company is now not starting the clock ticking until AFTER the Grievance Committee meeting.

Here's what I understand should happen?

1. get first notice with 30 days to cure
2. get 2nd notice with 30 days to cure
3. Not cured after 60 days? BOD says it agrees to fine the HO (per new law)
4. HO sent a notice to appear to determine if the fine the board is issuing should stick or should not stick.
5. HO attends the meeting and GC decides yes or no to the fine. The HO does not attend the meeting then they get fined.

The new PM company says that the $100 per day should start AFTER the Grievance Committee meeting and I think it should start when they are sent the letter to appear BUT with the final determination of the GC.

What do you do in your community?

The statute says they have the right to have a fine committee review the fine and make sure it was properly issued, however; we start the fine at the time it was issued (approved at the meeting). If the homeowner then requests the fine committee review, no fine is usually paid until after that determination. But the initial date was the date set at the meeting where the fine was approved. I also do not think its mandatory for the homeowner to appear at the fine committee meeting, they can if they want, but the committee ensures fines are properly issued. One person on my fine committee wanted to try to offer solutions to the homeowner to avoid the fine but that is not their role; their role is to make sure the board properly fined the homeowner.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Kathleen,

Keep in mind that we can't say when the fine will start within your Association.
We can only give opinions of when we think it should start or, if our Association fines, when it starts for us.

That said, in my Association, we give them a reasonable amount of time after the hearing to correct before the fine starts. This is plainly stated in the letter which contains the hearing results. For example: xyz must be corrected by mm/dd/yyyy or, as authorized by section .. of documenty and statute, a monetary penalty of $xx.xx per day will be assessed.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2016 4:52 AM
Kathleen,

Keep in mind that we can't say when the fine will start within your Association.
We can only give opinions of when we think it should start or, if our Association fines, when it starts for us.

That said, in my Association, we give them a reasonable amount of time after the hearing to correct before the fine starts. This is plainly stated in the letter which contains the hearing results. For example: xyz must be corrected by mm/dd/yyyy or, as authorized by section .. of documenty and statute, a monetary penalty of $xx.xx per day will be assessed.

In Virginia, our HOA Documents states basically the same thing you posted. In Virginia, this process is regulated by State Law, as far as I know. If you receive a violation notice, my advice is to respond ASAP with a Board Hearing Request. This will stop the fine process, in till the requested meeting is held.

The second thing I suggest, is if you are not in compliance with your HOA Documents, bring yourself into compliance, regardless if your neighbor, "is doing the same thing", and they never received a violation letter. The main reasoning for this is simple, you can not walk into a Court, with "dirty hands". If you bring yourself into compliance and others are not, then you can address this at your next HOA Meeting, or call for a Special Meeting, to address this issue. If you still do not get a fair result to your problem, at least when you seek legal action, you will always be able to state, you did as your Documents stated, and now you seek relief to have them enforced, throughout your Community.

JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

Section 720.305(2)9a), Fla. Stat., governs this issue and provides as follows:

//A fine or suspension may not be imposed by the board of administration without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. The role of the committee is limited to determining whether to confirm or reject the fine or suspension levied by the board.//

Simply put, the verbiage of the statute is ambiguous re: your question, and the most conservative/prudent approach is to start the fine clock upon the approval of the fine by the committee. I think your manager is giving you sound advice.

It MIGHT ultimately be determined in a court of law that the fine could commence when the Board determines it -- provided it subsequently complies with the procedural requirements of the statute re: notice and opportunity for hearing -- but why risk an adverse ruling? That makes little sense to me.

JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

Fines should be used as a tool to encourage compliance -- not as a tool to inflict punishment.

JMHO...

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