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ViachaslauL (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Good day to everybody!

I am taking a steps to buy a condo. Yesterday I had home inspection with professional inspector. Generally, condo (25 years old) is great, but he found one issue at my balcony. This post is holding balcony above and roof at highest point. Post is not completely rot, only at certain point.

My question is - who is responsible for repairing this post?

Thank you!

Rick

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Generally the governing documents for the condo (CCRs, Deed Restrictions, etc.) will define responsibilities and you would need to consult those for a definitive answer. It is common in condos that the owner is responsible for drywall in, and the association for everything outside of that, but not all condos are set up that way. Some associations are more responsive than others, so even in cases where the association is responsible, it could be anywhere from easy to very difficult to get the post repaired. At this point, you have no standing with the association, if the association is responsible, the current owner should contact them about the repair.

This might end up being a good test to see if this is a well managed association or one that you might want to avoid.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
That post is probably the property of the HOA, especially seeing as it is a common structural element.

If the HOA won't pay for the repair, you don't want to buy in. A repair like that could cost a few grand, the there may be more rot than the home inspector found.
ViachaslauL (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The problem is that I still don't read CCR - I don't have it yet!

And YES - this post is structural element. Seems like association needs to take care of this.

Is it possible to insert images in this forum?

Thank you!

Rick
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You, V., need to have your realtor contact the seller or seller's realtor get a copy of the CC&Rs to see who's responsible. It is PROBABLY the HOA because it's a structural element outside of your property. Tell you realtor that you will not buy it until you know.

But even if it's a limited common area (aka exclusive use common area) because only you can use the balcony, the HOA still may be responsible. You do not want to buy this condo until you know who and when this will be repaired/replaced.

Alternatively, you probably, if you really want it and are afraid someone else may buy it, put a clause in your purchase offer to seller that the post must be repaired/replaced prior to the close of escrow. Or you can get a written bid to replace it and ask that that amount be credited back to you in your purchase offer.

But it's safest to know who is responsible and to know if the HOA is well-funded and managed. IF the HOA is responsible, they should have all of the spots in their reserves study and should be setting aside funds each month to eventually repair/replace these.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here's a concept... Maybe it's the SELLER's responsibility to fix the item? If it's the HOA's issue, then the seller/owner is to contact them to address the issue. That is how most real estate transactions work despite being in a HOA. It's part of the negotiations before you sign the dotted line.

You get a home inspector to report issues with the home prior to purchase. If there are some issues then you and your realtor negotiate terms on who is responsible to repair. When I bought my house, we wrote up in the contract that a window shade and awning be installed. We also had them hire a structural engineer to address a dip in the floor. All of which were terms of the sale.

The HOA documents should be available at the records department at the local courthouse. They are considered PUBLIC. So should be no problem for you or your realtor to go get a copy. Not all states make the seller provide that information. No reason you can't delay the sell until you review them as well. Should have already put earnest money in which is refundable.

You are NOT a member of the HOA. The seller is. So if there is an issue, then the member is responsible for taking it further NOT you. You are NOT a member until you are the owner.

Former HOA President
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Just wondering what is the full length of this post? Is this supporting one deck? And are we talking about a 4'X4' or 6'X6'?

How is this anchored at the bottom? And it lies on a concrete slab, concrete deck, or what ?

My suggestion ask the realtor to have the seller provide you with a copy of the By-Laws and Declarations. Those documents should explain who maintains these decks. Does ever unit have the same sort of deck?

I would suggest you not make a huge issue out of this IF this property is in some demand. Might just cost you an opportunity to buy it.

Have the realtor inform the seller about what the inspector found and ask them to have the HOA respond to how they plan to address this.

This should not be a major, dealbreaker.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Just wondering what is the full length of this post? Is this supporting one deck? And are we talking about a 4'X4' or 6'X6'?

How is this anchored at the bottom? And it lies on a concrete slab, concrete deck, or what ?

My suggestion ask the realtor to have the seller provide you with a copy of the By-Laws and Declarations. Those documents should explain who maintains these decks. Does ever unit have the same sort of deck?

I would suggest you not make a huge issue out of this IF this property is in some demand. Might just cost you an opportunity to buy it.

Have the realtor inform the seller about what the inspector found and ask them to have the HOA respond to how they plan to address this.

This should not be a major, dealbreaker.

ViachaslauL (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for all your reply!
My agent talked to the association representative and all becomes clear: This post was scheduled to change already by responsibility of condo association. They put me in a list to change.

Rick
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ViachaslauL on 07/12/2016 2:35 PM
Thank you for all your reply!
My agent talked to the association representative and all becomes clear: This post was scheduled to change already by responsibility of condo association. They put me in a list to change.

Rick

My suggestion perhaps you get something from the association representative in WRITING! On a piece of paper with their name, the date and signed.

He said, she said down the road means little.

Glad to hear this situation might just be that easily resolved. Good luck with your purchase.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Jon is exactly right, V. Get something in writing from the HOA board Pres. or Sec'y or the HOA's property mgr. showing that this repair/replacement will be made. Make sure it's someone who has the authority to write such a memo. I don't know what "Association Representative" means.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
My opinion, delay the purchase until the repair is made or, have funds set into escrow to make the repair if the HOA doesn't.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2016 6:26 PM
My opinion, delay the purchase until the repair is made or, have funds set into escrow to make the repair if the HOA doesn't.

Escrowing funds makes a lot of sense.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
A lender may choose not to underwrite a mortgage if there is known structural damage.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
RUN

RUN FAST

RUN FAR

? why would you even consider buying a property with VISUAL structural damage ?

(visible, and serious, is all the inspector looked for)

? what will you think if you later find hidden damage ?

? or the HOA does not repair to your expectations ?

? are there no structurally sound properties in the area for sale ?

? no ?

D'OH
ViachaslauL (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I can explain. This condo is very good - nice place, pretty good price compare to the neighbors and the main advantage - that was an investment property and looks like nobody lived there at all!

Believe me, I took a look for a 10+ condo's in this area - and they look terrible compare to this one. That's why I am OK even with this post at balcony - really it is not damaged. Water heater new, AC outside unit needs to e replaced only after 10+ years, walls are flat and very nice painted and many more advantages - that is I was looking for a 3-4 months.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Viachaslau,

You also want to protect yourself.

I live in Northern VA. I've spent 5 years looking for our retirement home. Pulled the trigger 5 times.
All, except one, were cancelled due to inspections or the Association (I review documents closely).
Hopefully, the home we found now will work. However, I don't get excited until after the inspections and the negotiations that follow.

Expecting that you are around the DC area, I understand the frustration in looking for property in a good neighborhood, properly maintained and one that you can afford. If you like it, then go ahead and purchase it. However, protect yourself as well (unless you have the money to fix the issue on your own if something happens and the Association can't get to it in a reasonable time frame or they say it's your responsibility).
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ViachaslauL on 07/13/2016 6:48 AM
I can explain. This condo is very good - nice place, pretty good price compare to the neighbors and the main advantage - that was an investment property and looks like nobody lived there at all!

Believe me, I took a look for a 10+ condo's in this area - and they look terrible compare to this one. That's why I am OK even with this post at balcony - really it is not damaged. Water heater new, AC outside unit needs to e replaced only after 10+ years, walls are flat and very nice painted and many more advantages - that is I was looking for a 3-4 months.


This suggestion for you to RUN seems to me to be a bit drastic.

This is a support column for a deck 25 years old and perhaps not even pressure treated lumber that is rotten in one place.

The property has suggested they have plans to address this.

As this is more than likely common property Imwonder just who would be willing to put money in escrow to ensure thismworkmismdone as this is not the current owner's responsibility.

And as this is common property Iwould suggest you not take it upon yourself to do these repairs as this might be a violation of the property's documents.

If you search has determined this is a property worth buying as compared to others and you have been provided evidence the HOA has plans to address this I don't think you could ask for more than that.

Why not walk around and see if any other such lists have in fact been replaced. Ask some neighbors and owners as to the timeliness of repairs and upkeep around the property.

As I mentioned before in my mind this is not a dealbreaker.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
I have a bridge for sale as it appears you will purchase anything.

The bridge in question is structurally sound.

Pinky swear promise.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My thing is that this is the seller's responsibility to be involved with the HOA/solution. The buyer is NOT a member of the HOA. It's one thing to request information from the HOA, it's another to demand repairs be made before signing the dotted line.

Someone came to me with this demand, I would send them back to the seller. It's NOT in the HOA's lane with the buyer. It is with the seller who IS a HOA member. Plus every home I bought, these issues were part of negotiations with the seller prior to purchase. It was none of my concern how or who did the work. As long as it was addressed.

Former HOA President
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/13/2016 2:41 PM
My thing is that this is the seller's responsibility to be involved with the HOA/solution. The buyer is NOT a member of the HOA. It's one thing to request information from the HOA, it's another to demand repairs be made before signing the dotted line.

Someone came to me with this demand, I would send them back to the seller. It's NOT in the HOA's lane with the buyer. It is with the seller who IS a HOA member. Plus every home I bought, these issues were part of negotiations with the seller prior to purchase. It was none of my concern how or who did the work. As long as it was addressed.

Agreed.
Seller: Here is my home, would you like to buy it
Buyer: Maybe, I need to have it checked first
Inspector: This home has a rotted post
Buyer: I will not buy this home if it has a rotted post. Have it fixed

From the buyer's perspective, there is NO HOA involvement whatsoever at this point.

However, the buyer would be negligent in performing due care if they did not then check into the HOA structure to find out:
1) Who is responsible for maintaining items like that deck post? Are they common elements under HOA responsibility, or under owner responsibility?
2) Is the HOA in a financially stable position to repair this and other items that may fall under their responsibility. This is actually irrelevant to the first. Making sure the HOA is financially sound should be done before buying, lest one purchase a ticket on a sinking ship.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ViachaslauL on 07/12/2016 11:14 AM
I am taking a steps to buy a condo. .. This post is holding balcony above and roof at highest point. Post is not completely rot, only at certain point. My question is - who is responsible for repairing this post ?

ViachaslauL : If the governance documents lawfully download a structural replacement onto the owner a buyer will step into such obligation. Given the non-invasive limits of conventional inspections, ask yourself how much else there might out of sight.

As others point out above if you want enough to continue without waiving the current purchase conditions, have your legal representative insert or action any sale condition withholding from sale proceeds the cost to rectify this patent or observable safety risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Dave: "From the buyer's perspective, there is NO HOA involvement whatsoever at this point. However, the buyer would be negligent in performing due care if they did not then check into the HOA structure to find out:

1) Who is responsible for maintaining items like that deck post? Are they common elements under HOA responsibility, or under owner responsibility?
2) ... Making sure the HOA is financially sound should be done before buying, lest one purchase a ticket on a sinking ship."

Who's responsible often if murky in condos like the one V wants and like mine. And there often are a whole lot of reserves components. So buyer does need to know if these are funded well enough to handle their replacement/repair in the future. That info isn't available to the public, but the buyer sure as heck can make his offer contingent on examining and approving certain documents including the reserves study.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
You are all scaring the buyer. Great way to welcome somebody to an association. Yes he should get something in writing about his concern (replacing the column) from the association but many of you are scaring him (and other association buyers) away.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/14/2016 1:19 PM
I agree with Dave: "From the buyer's perspective, there is NO HOA involvement whatsoever at this point. However, the buyer would be negligent in performing due care if they did not then check into the HOA structure to find out:

1) Who is responsible for maintaining items like that deck post? Are they common elements under HOA responsibility, or under owner responsibility?
2) ... Making sure the HOA is financially sound should be done before buying, lest one purchase a ticket on a sinking ship."

Who's responsible often if murky in condos like the one V wants and like mine. And there often are a whole lot of reserves components. So buyer does need to know if these are funded well enough to handle their replacement/repair in the future. That info isn't available to the public, but the buyer sure as heck can make his offer contingent on examining and approving certain documents including the reserves study.

As an new owner with perhaps little or no experience with condo ownership or for that matter the particulars of this one property I have to wonder just who would review and then approve the documents including any reserve study?

I have lived in our condo property for 30+ years on the board for 29 never has a new owner requested to review any documents or financials prior to purchase.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 07/13/2016 6:58 PM
However, the buyer would be negligent in performing due care if they did not then check into the HOA structure to find out:
1) Who is responsible for maintaining items like that deck post? Are they common elements under HOA responsibility, or under owner responsibility?
2) Is the HOA in a financially stable position to repair this and other items that may fall under their responsibility. This is actually irrelevant to the first. Making sure the HOA is financially sound should be done before buying, lest one purchase a ticket on a sinking ship.


In PA and in other states, there are statutes that establish the required contents for estoppel letters. Estoppel letters should cover the stuff in item 2.

Along with the estoppel letter, we must also provide copies of the HOA docs - which in most cases, covers the stuff in item 1.

In PA, the HOA must provide the seller with an estoppel package within 10 days of request.

A buyer would be a fool not to review that package before closing the deal. In fact, the buyer has 10 days after receipt of the estoppel package to kill the deal and get all deposit money back without giving any reason for the cancellation.

Yet, I have personally interviewed everyone who bought a house in our community over the past 5 years. Not one of them was familiar with the estoppel package. All of them relied on their realtor's explanations. IMO, kind of silly to rely on someone who makes a commission if you buy and doesn't make a commission if you don't. But that's the way it works around here most of the time.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/14/2016 6:35 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 07/13/2016 6:58 PM
However, the buyer would be negligent in performing due care if they did not then check into the HOA structure to find out:
1) Who is responsible for maintaining items like that deck post? Are they common elements under HOA responsibility, or under owner responsibility?
2) Is the HOA in a financially stable position to repair this and other items that may fall under their responsibility. This is actually irrelevant to the first. Making sure the HOA is financially sound should be done before buying, lest one purchase a ticket on a sinking ship.


In PA and in other states, there are statutes that establish the required contents for estoppel letters. Estoppel letters should cover the stuff in item 2.

Along with the estoppel letter, we must also provide copies of the HOA docs - which in most cases, covers the stuff in item 1.

In PA, the HOA must provide the seller with an estoppel package within 10 days of request.

A buyer would be a fool not to review that package before closing the deal. In fact, the buyer has 10 days after receipt of the estoppel package to kill the deal and get all deposit money back without giving any reason for the cancellation.

Yet, I have personally interviewed everyone who bought a house in our community over the past 5 years. Not one of them was familiar with the estoppel package. All of them relied on their realtor's explanations. IMO, kind of silly to rely on someone who makes a commission if you buy and doesn't make a commission if you don't. But that's the way it works around here most of the time.


Exactly. And how many of those same people, having signed all of the HOA-related documents at closing, at some point say "nobody told me I couldn't do that" "I never got any information about the HOA" or "I wasn't told there was an association"? Happens all the time.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/14/2016 5:37 PM
You are all scaring the buyer. Great way to welcome somebody to an association. Yes he should get something in writing about his concern (replacing the column) from the association but many of you are scaring him (and other association buyers) away.

GOOD - MY JOB IS DONE

The buyer SHOULD be scared of purchasing into a development which has VISIBLE rotting structural elements.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We have few buyers, too, who review many docs. But in V's case and given the rotting post, he should want to know more.

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