parking head in only

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

First I used the search function and it is not working. I also looked at over a years posting and did not see this addressed in any posting about parking.

My section of the community is single family homes. All have a garage and two to four car driveways. We have a restriction against having cars with expired tags (registration) parked in the driveway. Obviously they are allowed in the garage.

Can we set up a rule to require parking nose in and back of car facing the street so that valid tags can be seen and verified?

thank you

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

You can. However, you are not the police and, since the driveways are on private property, I don't see the issue for the Association (except for, perhaps, a desire to get a specific individual).

If they were parking on the street or in assigned/guest spaces on common areas, I would understand the Associations concern.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

A HOA must have better things to do

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/04/2016 9:09 AM
You can. However, you are not the police and, since the driveways are on private property, I don't see the issue for the Association (except for, perhaps, a desire to get a specific individual).

If they were parking on the street or in assigned/guest spaces on common areas, I would understand the Associations concern.

The reason for not allowing expired tags or vehicle without tags is to prevent derelict vehicles detracting from the area. While the driveway is private property, it is visible from the street and other properties, and thus, effects the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/04/2016 9:09 AM
You can. However, you are not the police and, since the driveways are on private property, I don't see the issue for the Association (except for, perhaps, a desire to get a specific individual).

If they were parking on the street or in assigned/guest spaces on common areas, I would understand the Associations concern.

That may not be true. I live in a city where the Code Enforcement Rules states that inoperable vehicles and with expired tags MUST be parked in the garage and not on the street or driveway. Whenever a situation arise I will use them instead of invoking the Rules and Regulation as the City will have more enforcement powers.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

We have similar verbiage in our CCRs, but I think disallowing owners to back into their driveways causes a lot of inconvenience to help solve a minor problem.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Think this is a bit of a stretch. How you going to enforce turning the car around? Just another violation to try to enforce beyond scope. Quite frankly do not think it's illegal to have an expired tag. What is illegal is driving on a public road with an expired tag. Sitting in a driveway/garage isn't going anywhere. Why is the HOA enforce the State laws of licensing in the first place? It's beyond scope of the HOA. Should already be a rule about abandoned or working on cars in the first place. Ones that are In scope.

Admittedly, I got a ticket for an expired tag. It was not by my HOA. It was by the real police. Funny thing is that I drove routinely to an Army Base who enforces such laws. They never caught it and I went by security everyday. The police caught me and it was a serious expense. I had to pay for my tag, late fees, and the fine for expired tags. It was $300 fine alone...

No. I do not think this is an in-scope HOA responsibility. Let the law do their job. They will get caught eventually. Plus you can't evict someone for such violation anyways.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TedS5 on 07/04/2016 10:00 AM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/04/2016 9:09 AM
You can. However, you are not the police and, since the driveways are on private property, I don't see the issue for the Association (except for, perhaps, a desire to get a specific individual).

If they were parking on the street or in assigned/guest spaces on common areas, I would understand the Associations concern.

The reason for not allowing expired tags or vehicle without tags is to prevent derelict vehicles detracting from the area. While the driveway is private property, it is visible from the street and other properties, and thus, effects the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

I understand that.

However, if the vehicle is in poor repair or on blocks, then enforce that.
If the vehicle is trashed, then enforce that as a nuisance.

Why force someone to pull into a drive and back into traffic?

What if it's a moving van, will they be required to pull in? What about trailers being backed into the drive?

I get the impression that such a rule is to go after one or two individuals who the Board believe have too many vehicles or unsightly vehicles. If this is the case, then such a rule should not be made. If the rule is made, don't get mad if someone makes a rule to go after something you may be doing in the future.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 07/04/2016 12:56 PM
We have similar verbiage in our CCRs,

Do you mean you have similar verbiage about expired tags (we have the same) or about a requirement to park head in on driveways/parking spaces?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Ted,

How will that rule help if someone places a car cover on their vehicle?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

"Dear Homeowner

You have violated Rule 23l.1.a which prohibits backing into your driveway.

If you don't remedy this situation immediately we will be forced to take action against you."

Are you at all concerned that the image of the board will take a hit with such a rule?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/04/2016 2:09 PM

Posted By DouglasK1 on 07/04/2016 12:56 PM
We have similar verbiage in our CCRs,

Do you mean you have similar verbiage about expired tags (we have the same) or about a requirement to park head in on driveways/parking spaces?

Sorry, similar verbiage about vehicles needing to have current registration. We don't do periodic sweeps for violations as some here apparently do. We respond if an owner reports an issue, or if we happen to notice. I think the board would all get voted out if we tried to enforce something like not allowing owners to back into their driveway (except for the fact that I don't see how we'd find 5 new board members).

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TedS5 on 07/04/2016 10:00 AM
The reason for not allowing expired tags or vehicle without tags is to prevent derelict vehicles detracting from the area. While the driveway is private property, it is visible from the street and other properties, and thus, effects the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

Oh, goodie!

Let's all perpetuate the stereotype of an HOA as a place where everyone minds everybody's business except their own.

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Car covers are also not allowed. I feel they should be if they have the clear panel for the tag to show thru. Especially in the case of an old or classic car.

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Not trying to enforce the law, Just a tool to help enforce the no expired tags rule from the HOA. We are smart enough to leave law enforcement to the people that are charged with doing that.

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Not a matter of enforcing the law but the rules of the HOA.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Ted,

I believe the consensus, if you were looking for one, is that having such a rule would be silly and possibly cause issues within an Association that has such a rule.

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

None of the homes are on a main street, so backing out into traffic is not an issue. And if traffic was that bad, it would be worse to stop, hold up traffic while backing into the driveway, especially since some people would stop to close behind you to allow you to back up.

Obviously this would not apply to a moving van, or service vehicle that is there temporally.

TedS5 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Car covers are not allowed.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TedS5 on 07/05/2016 3:49 PM

Obviously this would not apply to a moving van, or service vehicle that is there temporally.

I might have a U-haul there for a few days loading/unloading

IslamM (Florida)
Posts: 67

Posted:

My HOA towed my car because of an expired tag and damaged my transmission.(not in the CCR'S. And they ignored all my complains. But as we all know in Florida if you want to protest Board abuse you need to hire an attorney, so I had no choice than fix my car is very unfortunately that HOA are not supported by the DBPR in Florida to protect the owners from the Board and attorneys.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

When evaluating your proposed rule, you should ask yourself 3 questions:

1. What percentage of your homeowners are likely to find fault with the new rule, and for no other reason, choose not to comply?

2. When they don't comply, what actions are you prepared to take to initiate enforcement?

3. If you aren't successful at enforcement, what portion of your other residents are likely stop complying as well?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By IslamM on 07/05/2016 5:18 PM

My HOA towed my car because of an expired tag and damaged my transmission.(not in the CCR'S. And they ignored all my complains. But as we all know in Florida if you want to protest Board abuse you need to hire an attorney, so I had no choice than fix my car is very unfortunately that HOA are not supported by the DBPR in Florida to protect the owners from the Board and attorneys.

Why didn't you sue the towing company in small claims court?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

I also have nothing better to accomplish.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg

If I were a member of this absurd HOA I would rent or build one.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 07/05/2016 5:20 PM
When evaluating your proposed rule, you should ask yourself 3 questions:

1. What percentage of your homeowners are likely to find fault with the new rule, and for no other reason, choose not to comply?

2. When they don't comply, what actions are you prepared to take to initiate enforcement?

3. If you aren't successful at enforcement, what portion of your other residents are likely stop complying as well ?

very good advice. Now if only government would follow it.

The old saying : For a dubiously beneficial rule, if one third strongly defies, one third loves it and one third couldn't care less, is it usually a smart move to add that one more layer ?

Unenforced rules tend to undermine credibility if patently ignored, or else suck compliancing resources . . . .

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/05/2016 3:43 PM
Ted,

I believe the consensus, if you were looking for one, is that having such a rule would be silly and possibly cause issues within an Association that has such a rule.

I agree. A foolish rule.

JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

Ted,

Even assuming for the moment that the rule would be prudent and (practically speaking) enforceable, you need to determine whether the Board has the authority to enact such a rule under your governing documents. The authority of a Board to enact rules and regulations is oftentimes limited to one's use of common areas, and I presume that the driveways in your neighborhood are privately owned.

Even assuming the rule to be prudent and (practically speaking) enforceable, and within the authority of the Board to promulgate, what would prevent the resident from closely parking another vehicle behind it and thereby obscuring the plate from view?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg

{url}http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg{/url}

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg[/img]

{img}http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg{/img}

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAmhV3qxh3I/TDiRdr00q4I/AAAAAAAABho/jTcAaPS7ZEk/s1600/Toronto_ShrinersParadeTrentValleyBiendedCar.jpg

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

? how does one post an image ?

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JamesG11 . . . whether the Board has the authority to enact such a rule under your governing documents. The authority of a Board to enact rules and regulations is oftentimes limited to one's use of common areas, and I presume that the driveways in your neighborhood are privately owned. . . . what would prevent the resident from closely parking another vehicle behind it and thereby obscuring the plate from view ?

These and other comments above are the sort of yard-sticking needed.

Is a valid reasonable purpose of a rule to make it easier to detect & reduce unplated vehicles ? ie merely easier for the enforcers ?

The nose-in debate is worth checking online where defenders also argue - maybe with some balance of credibility - that it reduces property damage ( backing into spaces with or without backup cameras ). How would one test that ? Others claim it is really a useless variant of the toilet paper inwards / toilet paper outwards debate.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 07/05/2016 4:11 AM

Posted By TedS5 on 07/04/2016 10:00 AM
The reason for not allowing expired tags or vehicle without tags is to prevent derelict vehicles detracting from the area. While the driveway is private property, it is visible from the street and other properties, and thus, effects the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

Oh, goodie!

Let's all perpetuate the stereotype of an HOA as a place where everyone minds everybody's business except their own.

Amen!
This is HOA silliness at its finest.

Does the HOA have a definition for derelict vehicles? I suspect that if someone forgets to renew the tags on their brand new Cadillac, it does not instantly become derelict.

Really, this is bordering on comical. I can picture the HOA gestapo marching through the neighborhood, binoculars in hand, looking for expired plates. I suppose it would keep them occupied so as to prevent other such silliness.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

We bought a drone with a camera that can take pictures of windshields and tags so that we can tell if registration is current.

Problem is that kids got a hold of it and have decided to use it for other adventures.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 07/12/2016 5:15 AM

Posted By LarryB13 on 07/05/2016 4:11 AM

Posted By TedS5 on 07/04/2016 10:00 AM
The reason for not allowing expired tags or vehicle without tags is to prevent derelict vehicles detracting from the area. While the driveway is private property, it is visible from the street and other properties, and thus, effects the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

Oh, goodie!

Let's all perpetuate the stereotype of an HOA as a place where everyone minds everybody's business except their own.

Amen!
This is HOA silliness at its finest.

Does the HOA have a definition for derelict vehicles? I suspect that if someone forgets to renew the tags on their brand new Cadillac, it does not instantly become derelict.

Really, this is bordering on comical. I can picture the HOA gestapo marching through the neighborhood, binoculars in hand, looking for expired plates. I suppose it would keep them occupied so as to prevent other such silliness.

I agree.

DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TedS5 on 07/04/2016 9:04 AM
First I used the search function and it is not working. I also looked at over a years posting and did not see this addressed in any posting about parking.

My section of the community is single family homes. All have a garage and two to four car driveways. We have a restriction against having cars with expired tags (registration) parked in the driveway. Obviously they are allowed in the garage.

Can we set up a rule to require parking nose in and back of car facing the street so that valid tags can be seen and verified?

thank you

We have two rules that apply to your question. 1. State and County Law. All autos must display current tags as well as inspection stickers unless garaged or covered. 2. Our CCR's have simply adopted this State Law into our Documents.

On a side note, Virginia also has a law forbidding autos to back into a parking space for Hotels and Motels, due to exhaust coming from the auto. I am not aware of any law that pertains to private housing.