Suicide On HOA Property

Our HOA recently had a resident commit suicide behind his house, which is HOA property. The scene was apparently pretty messy, due to the nature of the suicide. The man's family member has complained to the police that they "Missed parts" and her child has "found matter". The police and coroners office insist they did a good job cleaning up, but that if there is a full cleanup that is needed, they wont do it. With that said, does that leave the HOA legally and financially responsible for the clean up?

We've never run into this situation and time is obviously an issue. Just seeing if anyone else has had anything close to this scenario happen to them and what they did, or could offer any kind of advice.

Thanks

-Chuck

James

Thanks for the reply. The resident is/was a renter and I am of the opinion that this should fall upon the homeowner's homeowners insurance. I see no reason the HOA should be held responsible for cleaning up what someone else did.

We have rules for littering, putting trash out early, parking, property maintenance. All of which fall on the resident. I see this no differently.

To be honest, from a BoD perspective, I dont care about the surviving residents feeling. I was elected to my HOA to maintain the community's financial sanctity and keep the boat sailing straight, not be a shoulder to cry on. I can empathize with this family, but in the same breath, I dont want to pay for their mess.

This is a new one for us and Im sure not many people have come across this. Spending thousands of dollars (or tens of) to have it professionally cleaned up is just a stupid expense that I am not willing to vote yes on.

Also, your crassness is fine. I thought the same thing, lol. I appreciate the straight answer.

We had a similar situation years ago where an owner shot himself on the common area behind his house. I don't know how messy things were but nobody ever brought up the need for additional cleanup, so we didn't have to deal with the issue you have.

Assuming any cleanup would be considered bio-hazardous, it could get expensive. Have you checked with your insurance company to see if they provide any coverage for this? Assuming they get involved, they might then go after the estate of the person who committed suicide to recover cost.

Has anyone considered the responsibility of the landlord or landlord's insurance company in this situation?

Am trying to keep our insurance out of it, as it would cause our rates to go up. And getting insurance in PA for HOA's is getting harder and harder.

The coroners office and police usually do the cleanup, the bets they can, but someone found a piece of brain on HOA property. The house backs right up to a densely wooded area, so cleanup is going to be tough.

I appreciate all your feedback

ChuckS4 (Penn) Sympathy for the deceased's family & the community is certainly in order. That said there are issues that for governancers, which I have somewhat gone through myself after the indoor suicide /murder scene ? of a tenant in a community which I managed several years ago.

The bio-hazards should be addressed by one of the many disaster response etc companies as Melissa notes above. Wouldn't push cost recovery from the deceased 's family even if they have the bucks, but a different story from the owner - landlord.

But you would be well served need to get credible quick confirmation that the death scene has been 'released' by police & coroners.

Management needs to make itself available / helpful to the police/other responders asap if for no other crass reason than to be on the lookout for potential liability. Prudently being available doesn't mean concealment or obstruction, but discreet recording is not a bad idea. Bear in mind that blameless folks need to be prepared to be targetted . . .

Another aspect is trying to make sure that the community is not avoidably mis-served by less than balanced media coverage. If you have a single point of information by a qualified spokesperson, better idea to use such professionalism than acquiescing in press getting some bad vibes out of disgruntled employees or someone else with an axe to grind.

Kind of shocked that instead of getting potential biohazards cleaned up, a HOA would wait for the hot sun, buzzards, coyotes and ants to do the job while they asked "what to do" here (and all the while ignoring any answer that isn't exactly what they want to hear), and waste time.

Classy HOA that.

Then go get a rake, shovel and hose and git-er-done. If it's minuscule as you state, how long could it take?

Mark, it is a bio-hazard situation. You can't simply put on some gloves and take a hose to the matter. There is ALOT more to clean up of such scenes than you think. I watched a documentary on the business that does this for a living. It's something I thought about doing myself as a business. However, it's extremely extensive and sensitive type of business.

We also have a cemetery here that offers "Natural burial". One can have their body simply laid out on the ground for nature to take it's course. They have had to face some serious health and regulations to be allowed to be in business. Which now is under scrutiny to be closed.

So one can't really knowingly leave bodily remains out in the open. It should be cleaned up but don't think it can ever be done 100% in this type of situation. Plus the remains can't be tossed away in a garbage can on the street. It's got to be bagged and thrown away like bio waste. Which is typically burned.

I would call out the police/coroner and ask if someone can come back to review the clean up once more. If not, then recommend what can be done.

First the suicide was on HOA property, now it's not.

If it's on HOA property clean it up and bill it out.

If it isn't on HOA deeded property, then ignore it.

I say on HOA property than cleanup is on the HOA's dime. Now if the HOA decided to "sue" the estate of the deceased to be reimbursed, that is on the HOA's conscience.

IMO, landlord is responsible for harm done by tenant to HOA common area. Cleanup or cost of cleanup can clearly be put at feet of property owner.

Keep in mind this was a RENTER and NOT an owner. So I say the HOA can only have the OWNER handle the situation. Quite frankly, I do not believe insurance should be involved nor the HOA. It's a PERSONAL issue and the landlord is responsible for their own property. Remember the HOA's money and insurance is for ALL the HOA's MEMBERS it's NOT for non-members such as renters...

I would NOT pay if this was my HOA. I would extend information and contact to the landlord/owner to deal with the situation. After that, no more involvement until proven otherwise.

Cold and heartless. You state you have no experience in a matter such as this, so your initial reaction is to protect your HOA assets. Then stick to that.

Since it's all about the money and who is responsible for the clean up, then pay for it to be properly cleaned and then go after the owners with full force.

Why are you on the fence about this if your job is to protect your HOA? Make it all about the money. Then you can lay your head down at night with a clear conscious because you did your job to protect the HOA at all costs and with zero respect for other peoples suffering.

My vote:

1.
Have the landscaper generously (i.e. wide boundaries) yellow tape off the area of HOA grounds that is contaminated. Pay the landscaper whatever it costs to yellow tape off the area and write this off as a cost of doing business.

2.
Send a tactful and polite letter to the owner/landlord, informing him/her that this sad event unfortunately led to bodily remains on HOA grounds and on the grounds of the owner/landlord's property. Children walking the HOA grounds are coming across the bodily remains. This is the owner/landlord's responsibility to clean up, per section yada of the governing documents regarding debris/safety on the grounds. Give them one week. Meanwhile, After one week, have a volunteer inspect the grounds (both the HOA's common ground and the house's). Report back here.

3.
Refer calls from the family, concerned about their relatives' remains not being respected, to the landlord and executor of the estate. Else the HOA should say it is doing the best it can to bring resolve to this matter and express condolences to the family in this difficult time. Because kindness often results in less financial costs.

4.
Inform HOA members who inquire that the HOA is doing the best it can to resolve this situation, respecting the privacy of the family and ensuring safety, and to stay out of the yellow roped off area.

5.
Contact the state department of health www.health.pa.gov/ to see what suggestions it has and what law may apply to the HOA's obligations.

Depending on the state, the death of the tenant may be irrelevant, and the estate of the renter still owes the landlord for the remainder of the lease. Hence the landlord is responsible. What I am seeing on the net directs the landlord to contact the executor of the deceased's estate. Also leases often explain what happens when the tenant dies. E.g. the lease may terminate instantly or continue for 30 days after the tenant's death; continue to term, with the deceased's estate owing the amount of rent for the full term of the lease.

Clean up done by Association.
Association assess owner for cost

They own the property... The HOA does not...The owner is responsible for maintaining their property. Someone once told me that once a death happens at a house it lowers the value or makes it harder to sell. I know of several homes in our area that will nor sell due to deaths that occurred. One was the sceneof 5 people who were murdered over a cell phone. Still empty over 10 years... My ex co worker bought a house cheaper because the owner murdered his family. It sat on the market for a long time. It is a really nice neighborhood too.

Honestly, the owner is ultimately responsible. It is their home value they need to protect. It is not the HOA reputation. This was a renter. Damage was caused. Owner fixes it using their dime not that of all the neighbors.

No one wants to be less sympathetic to what occurred. It is a tragedy. Every tragedy has a reality. This happens to be of a sensitive and biological fallout. No easy way to address it without being or feeling insensitive. Deal with it one must but not because of guilt or shame. Deal with it conciuosly and with forward direction...

Respectfully, if a biohazard exists & the authorities have 'released' the scene - have they ? - the association should be arranging & funding its remedy asap as an urgent common area maintenancing duty. The duty leaps to the forefront here ahead of getting compensation.

Less urgent scenarios might have well justified putting the deceased's estate or legal representative or landlord or all on notice of an obligation to remedy it themselves. "You all are jointly obligated to do this by such & such date etc . ."

Doubt that later seeking recovery costs would founder in these circumstances merely on failing to afford an opportunity to demand its cleanup by the estate or lawyer or both. As recommended above, putting the corporation's insurer on notice is not a bad idea either.

I agree with Bob, the HOA needs to get on the stick and get it done regardless. I have doubts if they can recover from the landlord, but it may be possible. The estate is definitely on the hook, the issue being if they have funds available.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/crime-scene-clean-up.htm