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FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Hi Everyone.
One of our board members wanted to make changes in one of our By-laws, and unilaterally had our management company send out letters to our entire community asking for a yes, or no vote, after our attorney drafted the proposed change.
The entire board did not approve this By-Law change, or letter. It is my belief that the entire board must approve such a by-law change, as well as approve that the letter be sent out.
Am I correct in this? This is for a Florida HOA.
What can be done to correct the situation i, assuming I am correct.?
Thanks for any thoughts and input.
Fred.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 06/23/2016 11:07 AM
Hi Everyone.
One of our board members wanted to make changes in one of our By-laws, and unilaterally had our management company send out letters to our entire community asking for a yes, or no vote, after our attorney drafted the proposed change.
The entire board did not approve this By-Law change, or letter. It is my belief that the entire board must approve such a by-law change, as well as approve that the letter be sent out.
Am I correct in this? This is for a Florida HOA.
What can be done to correct the situation i, assuming I am correct.?
Thanks for any thoughts and input.
Fred.

Board Choices:
A) Retroactively approve what got sent out; or
B) Notify owners that it was sent in error, and a revised letter with proposed change will be sent out.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Don't assume. Start with reading your bylaws to see exactly how they should be changed. Most of the time, this isn't just a Board decision - a certain percentage of homeowners have to approve it.

Could it be the association attorney has come up with a draft, the board voted on the draft and will be sending out a letter to the homeowners for their input and approval? Take a look at previous board meeting minutes to review the history of these changes and if it's not entirely clear, go to a board meeting and ask them.

The bylaws may also allow certain policies to be adopted by the board provided they don't contradict the Bylaws and CCRs. For example, your bylaws might say delinquent homeowners aren't allowed to vote - the board may adopt policies that call for notifying homeowners of their status before an annual meeting in which there will be an election. Or it might adopt procedures on how homeowner eligibility will be checked and who will do it before the meeting.

Now if your board is trying to do an end run around the bylaws, you'll have the citations in hand and can point this out to them. Let them explain what they're doing and if they can't or won't, you could talk to your fellow homeowners and see if you might want to recall these people (read the bylaws again to see how that should be done). If things get to this point, remember, you'll need to have people at the ready to take over.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 06/23/2016 12:25 PM
Don't assume. Start with reading your bylaws to see exactly how they should be changed.

Exactly right. For example, my bylaws say "these by-laws may be amended, at a regular or special meeting of the members, by a vote of a majority of a quorum of members present in person or by proxy". They don't say anything about the board needing to vet or approve any proposed changes. In theory this appears to allow any homeowner to present proposed by-law changes at the annual meeting and have them considered by the membership.

Fred, in your specific case I would consider the board member's actions to be theirs alone as a homeowner, not as a board member. Further, the board as a whole should make clear to the management company and attorney that actions generally should only be taken based on board agreement as noted by decisions in the minutes, and provide any specific exceptions to this.

After checking your docs, you should also check out the HOA law at:http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
see section 720.306 about amendments to see if voting by mail is even valid for your association.

Your action on this specific issue depends on how the rest of the board feels. If they don't mind throwing the rouge member under the bus, send out a letter explaining that the member took inappropriate action (directing the attorney and MC to act) without board approval. Assuming your bylaws are similar to mine, there is still nothing stopping the member from acting as a homeowner and proposing the changes at the annual meeting.


Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
BrendaP2 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Fred poses an interesting question. What’s to prevent anyone, owner or not, from mailing out an amendment ballot? What if, say, Attila the Hun, mailed out amendment ballots and they were approved by the membership? Would the amendment be legitimate?
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Sorry if I was not clear. Briefly:

1: The president of our board decided to propose an amendment to our landscaping By- Laws so that residents have to personally pay for any tree or hedge trimming if over 8' tall,even though our dues allow for HOA to pay for ALL trimming outside of homes.
(He was trying to avoid our lawn company from having Workmens comp- WHich is illegal IMHO.
2: He asked our Management company to present the proposed amendment (After our lawyers looked at it, and revised it.) to all board members for approval.
3nly 2 out of 5 board members approved this. (Our by-laws specify that ALL board members must approve an amendment proposal.)
4:The management company at the request of the board president sent out voting proxies and letter to our entire community without full approval.
5:I believe what was done was illegal, and that the Management company and/Or the president ought to be held somehow accountable , and also rescind those letters since they were not approved by the entire board.
Fred.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Fred, what puzzles me is that there is something about landscaping in your Bylaws. Can you say the exact name of the document in which you see the landscaping article and section?

Are you on the Board, Fred?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Fred, what puzzles me is that there is something about landscaping in your Bylaws. Can you say the exact name of the document in which you see the landscaping article and section?

Are you on the Board, Fred?
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/23/2016 4:30 PM
Fred, what puzzles me is that there is something about landscaping in your Bylaws. Can you say the exact name of the document in which you see the landscaping article and section?

Are you on the Board, Fred?

Hello, Kerry,

Yes, I am on the board.
There are 5 of us. I am VP.
Only 2 agreed to amend an article regarding lawn and trimming. Our By-Laws require unanimous approval of any amendments, or changes in By-laws.
The document is part of of The Declarations,. covenants and restrictions regarding Landscaping responsibilities.
.Up to now, the HOA is reponsible for ALL outside trimming of hedges and trees. It is part of our Dues.
The reason that this board member wants residents to be responsible, is because our lawn maintenance guys do not have Workmens comp insurance. (The regular yearly tree trimming company we hire, does have all proper insurance.)
I want all our suppliers to have proper insurance, so amending a by-law so that the one guy does not have to cut anything higher than 8' is not the way to solve a problem.
Hope this clarifies.
Fred.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 06/23/2016 12:21 PM

Board Choices:
A) Retroactively approve what got sent out; or
B) Notify owners that it was sent in error, and a revised letter with proposed change will be sent out.

I don't think you have any recourse against Prez or management company. I do think that in the future, management company should be told not to accept instructions from the Prez. Maybe you as VP can be designated by the board to be the point person for the management co. All communications would go through you.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Fred, this landscape article/section is actually in your CC&Rs, what you call "The Declaration of covenants and restrictions," right?

Can you convince the rest of the Board to vote to rescind the so called amendment? Basically NpS' "B" above.

In my HOA, and I think most if not all, the board first must approve an amendment to the bylaws or to the CC&Rs. But it does not usually have to be unanimous. You need to read both of those documents and find out what they say about amending each one. Must the board agree unanimously to proposed amendments?

I also don't know the requirements for voting that're probably in your Bylaws and certainly in FL about elections procedures.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 06/23/2016 3:53 PM

5:I believe what was done was illegal, and that the Management company and/Or the president ought to be held somehow accountable , and also rescind those letters since they were not approved by the entire board.
Fred.

AT the next Board meeting propose that the President be removed from Officer for cause and xyz be appointed as the new president
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 06/23/2016 6:24 PM
AT the next Board meeting propose that the President be removed from Officer for cause and xyz be appointed as the new president

Seconded.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thank you for your input.
A: Would not work because several board members would never approve such a change.
B:There would be no revised letter sent out , due to the fact that no resident, and majority of my board.do not want such a change.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The president wants this because the Association has hired a lawn maintenance company that doesn’t have workman’s comp????? That’s just foolish – does he not know that it’s good business practice to only hire vendors who have the proper insurance, permits and licenses to do whatever the Association wants them to do? If someone gets injured doing work for your association, this could put the Association at risk for being held responsible. Workers can also get injured if they stay on the ground and a branch from an 8 foot tree or higher falls and wallops them in the head.

If the company doesn’t have the right insurance and is too cheap to get it, you need another vendor, not a bylaw amendment. I suspect the real reason the president came up with this nonsense is because he’s too cheap to hire someone with the proper credentials. (Thus making me wonder if he have any financial connection with these people? Maybe you should check)

What really needs to happen is for you and the other board members to consider placing this guy as president – usually the homeowners pick the board members and the board members appoint officers among themselves, so you shouldn’t need a bylaw for that either.. Then, you should establish a board policy that every vendor hired by the association to prune trees, cut grass or whatever MUST provide verifiable proof of insurance and licenses.

While you’re at it, you may want to insist that the Association also be release from any liens from subcontractors (if the main vendor doesn’t pay them, they might go after the Association for payment and you don’t want that either).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 06/24/2016 8:14 AM
Thank you for your input.
A: Would not work because several board members would never approve such a change.
B:There would be no revised letter sent out , due to the fact that no resident, and majority of my board.do not want such a change.

C: Send letter stating that letter was a draft document that was sent in error. Let them know that no vote is being taken at this time.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
Contractors should have insurance and before signing a contract this should be investigated. You would be better off cancelling the contract.

Also, vendors are not subject to By-Laws or rules of the association. Sounds like you need to develop some rules that are not in conflict with the By-Laws etc.

Not sure I understand how the By-Laws expressly determines how you achieve landscaping responsibilities but understand that would be the responsibility for the association to maintain the common elements. It would then be the Boards responsibility to secure a vendor and determine by (rules) how the grounds should look. That would be achieved by writing rules and seeking a majority of Board approval.

Find info on contract components/examples. Your state (Department of professional and occupational lookup) should have a means to check contractors for license etc.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Any Amendment would have to be voted on by all members anyway ... therefore, if owners would have to pay vs. HOA my guess is the owners will most likely vote NO. Unless a majority are currently paying for a few owners having their stuff trimmed. Let us know how the vote works out ....

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