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ChristineL1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
We have a home on a corner lot who's back yard is adjacent to the neighbor on the other street's living room window (perpendicular). The neighbor's house is built very close to the property line (5-6 feet) but is built per setback requirements. The first guy wants to put in a fiberglass in-ground pool. This pool will be about 8 feet from the neighbor's living room window, but behind a 6-foot wooden privacy fence.

The non-pool homeowner is complaining to the board about this pool application for a variety of reasons (one is about drainage concerns, for which we have queried the City) but mainly about quality of life for his family since it's reasonable to expect there to be a lot of noise right outside his main living space windows.

Our CCRs allow for pools. They also allow the ARB (which is actually just the board members acting in the ARB capacity) to disallow any modification for any reason, including aesthetics.

Oh, and to make things extra fun, these homeowners also have a property line dispute going on (each has had the property surveyed and say that their survey is right) and hate each other enormously. I'm pretty sure they will be taking each other to court over this issue, so we are trying to tread lightly to avoid being an unintentional party to the lawsuit (as best we can).

Thoughts?

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Disregard the homeowner from the other neighborhood and only look at how the matter impacts your neighborhood. If there is nothing that negatively negatively affects your neighborhood, then approve it. And if these two people have a dispute regarding property lines, let them fight it out in the courts and stand on the sidelines.
ChristineL1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Sorry if I didn't make it clear. Both homes are within our HOA. They sit perpendicular to each other.

We realize that a civil lawsuit is outside of our control, but want to tread lightly to try to make sure we aren't inadvertently doing something wrong.

We only have one other pool in the neighborhood, and it backs up to woods, not another house.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Stay out of the personality clash. You've looked into the drainage issues, which was nice of you (since homeowner #1 wants to put this in, it seems to me HE should have addressed this issue when requesting the exterior change request).

Stick to reviewing the request based on what your CCRs say. Your CCRs probably have something in it about creating or maintaining a nuisance, so you could ask the homeowner what he'll do to reduce the chance of trespassing and noise.

As for the rest of it, tell homeowner #2 he needs to grow up and address his concerns with homeowner #1 as an adult, not a child. Since there isn't a pool yet, the Board doesn't have any jurisdiction. Besides, the board should stay out of dustups between neighbors unless a number of homeowners are involved - remind both of them of that and strongly suggest they find a way to address their issues - if they want to sue each other on their own dime, they can have at it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Ya are in control. Simply say "No" to the approval of the pool. A pool doesn't add property value. It most likely just makes it more attractive to buyers. Dis-approve because of noise reasons. Are you allowed to have fences? Some areas require a pool must have a fence installed around them.

Believe me, I live next door to a pool that is within 50 feet of the side of my house in the neighbor's yard. It's visible and they do not maintain it well. It's usually cleaned once a year and attract mosquitos. They do have parties which end with me picking up cans, trash, and balls/toys. We have a fence between us but yet their guest will jump over.

Overall, you all need to check with the health department about pool rules/laws before proceeding. Some counties/states require certain regulations and inspections. The owner may not be able to install the pool due to certain requirements the other pool may not face.

If they threaten to sue for not approving, tell them to go ahead. Just make sure your turning this down based on reality and not because of social issues. Have the facts hard down and quote exactly the source that denies this installation. Believe me, living next to a pool this close is not just my issue but ALL.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/21/2016 12:10 PM
Ya are in control. Simply say "No" to the approval of the pool. A pool doesn't add property value. It most likely just makes it more attractive to buyers. Dis-approve because of noise reasons. Are you allowed to have fences? Some areas require a pool must have a fence installed around them.

Believe me, I live next door to a pool that is within 50 feet of the side of my house in the neighbor's yard. It's visible and they do not maintain it well. It's usually cleaned once a year and attract mosquitos. They do have parties which end with me picking up cans, trash, and balls/toys. We have a fence between us but yet their guest will jump over.

Overall, you all need to check with the health department about pool rules/laws before proceeding. Some counties/states require certain regulations and inspections. The owner may not be able to install the pool due to certain requirements the other pool may not face.

If they threaten to sue for not approving, tell them to go ahead. Just make sure your turning this down based on reality and not because of social issues. Have the facts hard down and quote exactly the source that denies this installation. Believe me, living next to a pool this close is not just my issue but ALL.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!!!!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes! I am out of my mind listening to pool parties next door for nearly 10 years! Listening to kids scream. Listening to balls bouncing back and forth for hours at a time. Picking up trash, beer cans, and toys in my yard. dealing with LOUD music outside my window when I am trying to sleep. Not a thing I can do about it!

So I say if the HOA has an opportunity from preventing this from happening to them or future owners, I say do NOT approve! Why the heck not? The noise alone is enough to make many potential owners take a look at the situation and run. I know many buyers have on my house when they saw the pool next door.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Christine,

Deny the application for the pool. You already know the property line is in dispute and you know the neighbors are feuding, so why put your board in a position where it will become a defendant in the inevitable lawsuit? Certainly there must be some other location where the pool could be built.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Under any circumstances who would want a pool built 8' from their living room window?

Imagine the conflict this would breed between these two with the HOA certainly being dragged into this mess.

I would avoid adding to the conditions that would escalate their existing issues.

My vote NO to the pool.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
By approving or denying the pool, the Association is likely getting dragged into the middle of a neighbor v neighbor dispute.

Since there are other pools that have been approved, you should base the application on the merits of the application.

However, you can hold a hearing with the individual (don't invite the other individual but be prepared as they might show up anyway if you have an open meeting requirement) and ask if the pool can be moved to a different part of the yard. Compare this with other pools within the development and see how far away from property lines other pools are.

Once a decision is made, tell the complaining owner about the compromise in relocating the pool within the yard and if they still have concerns to make a complaint to the permit and zoning officer (as permits will be needed for the pool.

ChristineL1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thanks for the replies!

We've already had separate meetings with each homeowner for them to plead their cases. We are considering asking the homeowner to move the pool to a different location on their property. Unfortunately, these are fairly small lots (this one is .2 acres), so it may not make much of a difference.

Yes, fences are required here.

We would only provide a conditional approval at first, with final approval contingent on proper permitting from the City.

It's the livability issue that gets me the most...

Oh, and one other thing that I really just noticed today: The pool equipment location is on the side of the house, just 10 feet or so from the neighbor on the other side! I alerted the other board members to this today and recommend that at the very least it be moved to the side without a house directly next to it (the street side of the corner lot).

JM16 (North Carolina)
Posts: 24
Posted:
You might consider adding a clause to your Architectural applications that requires applicants to disclose any pending land/property disputes on the property. Approving this in the middle of a property dispute is just a recipe for trouble.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Suggestion:

Modify architectural review rules to only allow pools where a house backs onto woods. Easy to demonstrate intent to consistently apply the new rule throughout the community.

Within your authority. No liability created IMO.

If liability does come out of your decision, D&O insurance should provide some level of protection.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
My house is similarly situated, two lots along one side back up to my lot, one along the front half, the other's living room windows face directly into my back yard. In my case our pool was built before the adjacent homes were built, but my feeling is that anyone who buys such a lot should realize that normal use and noise from the neighbor's back yard might be more noticeable to them than in the conventional side-by-side layout. I don't think the HOA should limit an owner's use of their property because adjacent homes happen to back up to their lot instead of being side-by-side.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DanaT (Tennessee)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Do the Owners that want the pool have any small children? I really can't see any difference then someone living next to the main road coming into the community. I would be very fired up, if others in my community were allowed to have a pool, and I was denied.

County approval is just that. They will set the guidelines from the plot plan. If your HOA allows for pools, then approve it, as long as it meets the County requirements and the proper permits are pulled.

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