HOA using homeowners / renters water without permission

Good afternoon,

I am a renter and have ran into an issue with our community HOA and would like some feedback on how to handle this situation. I apologize if I am in the wrong place but I could not find another website as active as this to discuss this problem. I understand it is a lot to read so please bear with me.

We are about to renew our 3rd year lease in this great little community and wish to continue living here however our HOA does not seem to care much for us. We have gained quite a few neighbor friends and I would like to say they enjoy having us here as we are always friendly and help in any way we can. Examples being getting the mail and taking out the trash for our elderly neighbors for the last year and helping families move in/out.

Friday is when this issue started and I will post the emails between the HOA and I showing how the action started. The HOA pays a lawn service company to maintain every yard in the community and this Friday when the lawn service was here they unreeled my hose and placed it on a tree that my neighbor and I share. I was understanding that the tree must need water so I allowed it as it was not a big deal. However 6 hours later I had to question why so much water was being used and if they are going to turn it off as the lawn service had left. I was a little annoyed on the wasteful usage of water.

_______Me to HOA_________

Good afternoon,

I was wondering if you could let me know about the lawn service company and how River Run works together and how the water usage is billed out.

I am asking this because today around 8 am I noticed my outdoor water faucet was on and they are running a hose to a tree that my neighbor and I share in the front yard. It is currently 12:30 and they still have not turned off the water. I understand the tree needs water however I was not aware that every Friday I have had a hose running for at least 5 hours. Currently the lawn is flooded and the water is running down the street and I am paying for it every month. May I put a lock on my faucet if this is how they are going to waste water and raise my bill? Just today this hose has used more water than we do in a month.

Please have a great weekend and looking forward to the community garage sale.
(my name)

______HOA to Me____________

Hello (Me),

We are having an issue with all of the oak trees in the community at the present time. We've consulted an arborist and learned that the weed and feed applied by our lawn care contractor on 5/5 has leached into the soil and has adversely effected these trees which is why you are seeing a hose and sprinkler being used not only on that tree but all others. The arborist recommended flushing the trees 24/7 for 2-3 days to prevent total loss of the tree. While we understand your concerns about the water usage, there is no other viable solution to preserving these trees as the irrigation system is not adequate enough.

As a renter, perhaps you can work something out with your landlord to cover this cost as it is do this or loose these trees. As you will note, they are very large, beautiful and mature trees so that would be a shame so again this is our only advisable course of action thus the constant hose/sprinkler you are seeing. You should've had a visit by the Garden's representative or received a letter on your door detailing this out, did you not receive either?

Thank you,
(HOA Representative)

_______Me to HOA____________

I did not receive a letter or visit about this but this is sufficient. Now knowing the reason behind the water usage makes me feel better, we want to keep our tree healthy. Thank you for letting me know about the situation and the fast response.

Have a great weekend!
(Me)

___________HOA to Me__________
Thanks (Me)! I'm sorry (community representative) didn't connect with you. I had (lawn service company) mark all effected trees with an orange ribbon in hopes that it would be helpful for her and residents to easily identify who needs to know and who needs to water. Sorry you were missed in the communications campaign but appreciate your cooperation and understanding. After a good flushing over 2-3 days, you can cease the watering.

Enjoy the weekend as well!

______________________________
At this time I believed that my owner must have been notified and a deal would be worked out between the owners and HOA and I would be able to work out the extra expense with my owner. The next day we visited some neighbors we don't know that had a hose on one of the trees that were marked. They came home to find that the hoses on each side of the house were ran to separate trees, one on their front lawn, one to the neighbors. They reeled up the hose going to the neighbors but left the one going to the tree on their property. This tells me that the HOA decided to use whoever had hoses outside to be generous water donors. The neighbor said they were not informed of the tree poisoning and were not told how they would be reimbursed for the extra water usage, they did note that our water is very expensive. When looking further I found most marked trees did not have hoses running to them which makes me believe that they did not have a hose outside, or they too were not informed and decided they would put the hose away. At this time I sent my HOA a response email saying I will not water the tree until a discussion is held on how this situation is handled:
_____________________________

________Me to HOA________

After walking around River Run today for the garage sale day I noticed maybe 1/10 marked trees had a hose running to them and after a closer look most of them were not even on.
I stopped and talked to a couple people that were running water still and they too were not informed of the situation, they were told that the tree was not watered enough. They found their hose running over to the neighbors tree and they were supplying water for a tree that was not on their property. They removed the hose and left the one for their tree.

I feel the situation we are in is unfair and unorganized, I have turned off my hose and locked it in the garage until a meeting is held. My normal bill is $60 a month and this will raise it to 300-400 for the lawn service mix up and we still don't know if this will actually save the tree. I do not want the lawn service using my facet anymore or my external power outlets without first consulting me personally.

Have a great weekend,
(Me)

_______HOA to Me__________

(Me),

We are all volunteers and do our VERY best to manage this entire community,which consists of 80 properties. The landscape contractor who used the weed and feed around the bases of these trees will inform people that the trees are "dry" his words, however, an arborist with 30 years experience and a 12 page resume with his many qualifications, will tell you otherwise.

Again, it was recommended that these trees be flushed 24/7 for 2-3 days and if residents "choose" to forgo this recommendation and are not willing to "help" their neighbor's tree that they too benefit from, there is nothing more that the board can do to help in this matter. If the trees are lost, it will fall on lack of action from those who are either trying to remedy it or people with the your mindset who are concerned only with water usage. If these trees are lost, they will not be replaced as you cannot plant any tree in the remaining small yards with the lost root system tangled within the ground.

If you would prefer to not have your bushes trimmed, by all means, lock up your electricity and such, but these emails from you are getting very ridiculous and are time consuming antics that are very unappreciated. The lawn service can and will NOT go door to door to ask each resident if they can use electricity to do their jobs in maintaining the 45 properties they are tasked with and it is extremely petty of you to complain about this as it is how we have managed the Garden's for nearly 20 years. In the future if you have complaints, contact your property management company and/or the homeowner directly as we will no longer dialog with you as it seems impossible. I've cc'd both (my home owner) and (my property managers) so they are aware of this very important issue and your lack of cooperation to ensure the long-term health of the tree located on the property in which you reside as well as that you are unwilling to cooperate with occasional electricity use in maintaining the yard and landscaping at the property.

Regards,
The Board of Directors at (our community)
________________________________

At this time I am not replying and will let my property managers handle the situation. However I would like some input on what other community members on this site thing of my situation. Is it right for the HOA to decide to use tens of thousands of gallons of water without consent of the owner (or renter) that is paying the bill?
Should the HOA be allowed to use someones utility to water a neighboring tree like the people I talked to? Am I being "ridiculous, petty, impossible, poor mindsetted"? Or is the HOA out of line to use the community in this way without permission? I am happy to help the community and try to keep it nice but I feel something like this needs to be discussed. Why would the community have to pay for the lawn service mistake?

Thank you and I appreciate all the input.

ID,

Simply turn the hose bib off from inside your home and move on.

Yes, the Board should have informed the membership. Yes, there should be some financial compensation (but don't hold your breath).

The easiest thing to do is, as stated earlier, turn the hose bib off from inside your home.

I contacted the property managers that my homeowner hired to inform them of the situation before this all turned south. He emailed me back quickly saying he supports me on pursuing reimbursement for the cost. That was before the final email the HOA sent me however the HOA said the email has also been sent to the manager and the homeowner. I feel the property manager will contact me soon to let me know how the situation has been handled.

The main problem I am having with all of this is the disrespect they have shown us and how they insult me because im not allowing them to take what they want. I have actually looked into buying a home in this community but the HOA board has really shown they don't care for the community residents as they claim.

An arborist doesn't necessarily know anything about how to handle an oak drenched in herbicide. You could also kill it by drowning it.

I'm with Jon: "If I were the OWNER, I would pursue reimbursement for any added water charges from the HOA who should then recoup that cost from the contractor who applied the treatment."

This seems sensible, logical, and fair.

It's similar to the following: An HOA common area pipe leaks and causes a lot of moisture in a condo unit in our high rise. Dryers are placed in the unit for a few days and run 24/7. The Owner's electric bill spikes and, sending the proper records, he seeks reimbursement for the difference between his normal bill and the leak-caused one. We reimbursed the Owner.

The tenant in this case has no contractual relationship with the HOA. The OWNER in my view would have more juice and pull to seek reimbursement.
Simple provide a letter of explanation along with the current and past Bill and hope the board handles this in a fair minded way.Or the tenant can make a mountain out of an ant hill and write a few dozen more e-mails making demands upon a board with which they have no business relationship.

Look around folks if this is your biggest problem you are leading a damn blessed life. Take a breath and chill.....

It would seem you fail to understand your relationship with the HOA. why not wait till you receive your bill and then you can determine just how much money this is really all about.

The HOA had an unfortunate situation, they were told heavy watering might save these trees. They took action by watering these trees best they could with the easiest available source of water. And here we are not having been billed demanding reimbursement for theft.

First you felt disrespected now you claim some increased cost all the while presenting what a fine community minded neighbor you are.

Here's a thought waitvforvthe bill, deduct that amount of increase from your next rental check with a brief letter of explanation and have the property manager or the owner pursue payment. This will end any further need on your part to contact the HOA and express how you feel they mishandled this rather minor matter.

And let's hope the trees survive. But with the difficulties you and some neighbors have shown over a water supply maybe that might be wishful thinking.

CD,

I'm glad things worked out.

I understand the issue was more principal then cost of water. I agree that sometimes you have to fight for principal alone.

It doesn't matter who has a contractural relationship with who. If the tennat is paying the water, then the units owner has no claim for damages, because they didn't take his water. If somebody stole your car, I can't sue that person, can I?

In this case, the lawn care company, as an agent of the HOA and following the advice of an independent consultant hired by the HOA is stealing water from by direction of the HOA. If the tennent pays the water bill, it is he who is suffering damages, not the unit owner. It is all very easy to understand. If you don't suffer a loss, you have no claim.

So evidently the property management company ( who does not pay the water bill) simply contacted the HOA and were able to arrange reimbursement
for this water theft. Just as I had suggested. The world is once again at peace. Respect has been restored, the OP has been made whole and a great wrong has been righted.

The great water caper of 2016 has been resolved and proved less complicated than represented.

What a relief.

I am sorry you are so annoyed with this post. I have never been in an HOA before and do not now how they operate. I simply asked a question on this forum to learn from another point of view, sorry for seeking knowledge.

Like others have said I pay the bill and not my owner. When my management said they support me in perusing reimbursement this is because the water is in my name. When I asked the HOA about a meeting to discuss reimbursement they cut me off and said they will only talk to management from now on. My management did not "simply" call the HOA and they told them the plan. The manager told me he had to get very upset with the HOA before they gave him any information. I don't believe there was ever a conspiracy, but if you TAKE something I pay for you better ask me first, no matter the value or the reason. I really could care less about the money, like others have said it is the principal.

I don't care if its a mountain or a molehill, I am a citizen with rights and no HOA will be above that, you will ask me to use my personal property. At the first sign that someone forgets that I will be sure to let them know.

Thank you everyone else for the input, I know I have learned a lot from this encounter and there seemed to be many different opinions listed so maybe others can use this information in the future.

Tim

Sorry but I see this as not an issue. The watering was supposed to take place over just three days. The board had a duty in my view to make every effort to give these trees as good a chance of survival as possible. In my world you do what needs to be done and after the dust settles you figure out who owes what to whom and why.

The easiest source of water was in fact from the homes nearest these trees. Was a notice put up? Don't know. Were any notices put up? Don't know.
Was the property manager notified? Don't know. Are all the residents home during the day? And if not should this result in a tree dying off because proper channels and all due respect was not provided? In my view no.

Now according to the OP this occurred on Friday. And they expected a settlement of some kind to be provided to their satisfaction on that day. As most boards meet once per month how would that even be possible? How about we take a deep breath before we claim to be disrespected and the victim of theft? Or that this is now some defense of their Constututional Rights. This is about water use. No one broke into anyone's how.

As you know I have lived in my community for 30+ years. During that time routinely contractors or our maintenance people use electricity, water, sometimes the easiest source for electric is from the individuals units. Saws, air compressors, lights, and other power tools in many cases need a source of electric.
Not once have we had an owner or resident question the cost. As in most cases it is minimal and not worth the effort versus the benefit they are receiving by having the work done. And while there are many tools today that operate on batteries and gas powered many still operate quite well on good old electric power. And in most cases I am aware of produce less noise gas versus electric.

So in the end this particular OP will receive their due reimbursement. I would have thought any fair minded board would have made the same arrangement given the time. My guess the overcharge amount will be far less than represented. And rather than dealing with this themselves the OP should have turned this over to the property manager as that is why they are paid to manage the affairs of the property the OP is renting. The OP is NOT a member of the HOA, they have a contractual relationship with the property owner not the HOA. In my view, they have no place making demands or setting policy as to how things should be done or why. Hell, if the neighbor's house caught on fire do you put the fire out with your hose or debate who will pay for the water cost first? Myself I put the fire out.

So in the end this matter of life, death and LIBERTY which all came to a head on Friday is now resolved on the following Tuesday. I have to agree with the board's response actually quite ridiculous. So in the end was this about money, respect or a violation of the right to control your garden hose. I doubt any monuments will be erected to honor this great battle over personal liberties.

Ask not what you HOA should do for you but rather what you can do for your HOA. Allowing for the use of a garden hose to protect property assets is to much effort. A hollow suggestion to me this was in any way about principle.

Tim

In your case I agree 1000%. But this was not power washing. But rather an attempt to save some trees. The HOA was not trying to beat the owners out of some cost for this water. Rather they took what action was suggested by an arborist to give the trees a chance.

In my world once we determine whether the trees survive, THEN we would assign liability as to the cost of the water, the cost to remove the tress if they were to die. Here we would collect those costs from the responsible parties after the outcome was known.

So the cost of the OP's excessive water bill would be paid in the end by the party that applied the treatment. The HOA should not absorb that.

And here is a quote to the HOA provided by the OP. The OP who represents themselves as Good Neighbor Sam. Clearly, failing to understand the members of the Board are their neighbors too.

"I feel the situation we are in is unfair and unorganized, I have turned off my hose and locked it in the garage until a meeting is held. My normal bill is $60 a month and this will raise it to 300-400 for the lawn service mix up and we still don't know if this will actually save the tree. I do not want the lawn service using my facet anymore or my external power outlets without first consulting me personally."

So over an issue regarding water hoses we demand a meeting, (a tenant) and we have locked our hose away willing to risk the loss of a property asset (an oak tree) because our water bill will be raised to an amount we have no way of knowing at this point AND without first consulting us on every occasion no one will be permitted to use external power outlets without my permission. Even if this is to trim the bushes and hedges in front of the home I am renting.
And the fact this has been done without any issue for 20 years does not matter to me. Because after all I am a good neighbor and community member.

In the OP's first post they hinted the HOA disliked them for some reason. I have to wonder if this less than cooperative, demanding, never satisfied attitude might be part of it.

Hopefully,mthentrees survive. Unfortunate this treatment was applied incorrectly. And unfortunate some can't seem to make any effort to cooperate in the attempts made to save them but rather make this about themselves and how they have been slighted. Doesn't matter if the trees die as long as my hose is locked up. Petty, childish, are some of the words that come to mind

I'd be curious to compare the cost of the water versus the cost of simply pulling up the tree and planting a new tree if this is truly a dire situation. However, wanting reimbursement for unauthorized water access to does NOT reflect on your commitment to being an excellent community member. They are separate.

The HOA was CLEARLY in the wrong for this and I'm glad they're simply holding their end of the bargain.

By the way, never reduce your rent payment and tell your landlord to "chase money" owed. You handled this well.

"We are about to renew our 3rd year lease in this great little community and wish to continue living here however our HOA does not seem to care much for us."

This from the OP's first post. Mark in your quote you left the most important part out.

So the OP has lived in this "great little community" managed by the same HOA board the OP now finds fault with for 3 years. And it would seem for some strange reason the OP feels disliked by the HOA (board). I have to wonder why?

Maybe these difficulties began before last Friday? When the water issues arose?

I still agree with the HOA the back and forth caused by the OP on such a small matter which could have been resolved with just a bit of cooperation rather than digging your heals in and making demands was ridiculous.

I wonder how this latest episode will affect the HOA's feelings towards the OP? Hard to guess...........

Oh and I added a sprinkler head to disperse the water a little more evenly than an open hose, might help with consumption.

Thank you guys for the support. I am actually glad John was willing to voice his input and stand his ground, like I said I am here to try understand the entire scenario from both point of views. I feel John had the same point of view as my current HOA so I am glad I was able to converse with him and get more detail on why they might have taken action like they did. He had good points such as the house fire, I can easily see in the email traffic how I may have given the wrong impression on helping the community in dire need. I see that I could have taken a different tone in my emails and was a little fired up and could give the HOA the wrong impression. The only thing left that is bothering me is the 24/7 for 2-3 days... I would have hoped someone on the board explained this oxymoron to the president.

CD

As a tenant you have no standing as a member of the HOA. The board response tried to explain that to you. You chose to ignore that reality.

What you declared to be disrespect was the board trying to handle a complicated situation made more difficult by responses such as yours.

Using your hose and water was not close to the end of your world. Nor was it a violation of your rights. As you claimed. It was an attempt to prevent further damage to these trees.

And as you now seem to comprehend your handling left much to be desired. You have no right to demand someone meet with you to explain or satisfy your
Concerns or to secure YOUR approval.

And your announcement that your external electric is no longer to be used without your permission was unrelated, childish and to quote you " put you foot in your mouth." Will you be notifying the HOA that they can disregard that nonsense?

I have served on our board for 29 years. This was an unfortunate situation that could have been made easier
with cooperation and assistance you went out of your way to provide neither.

And I would suggest you hold off estimating the costs or usage till such time as you are billed. Then you can work with facts not guesses.

And your critique of the more than likely elected board president is in fact meaningless and unimportant as again you are not a member of the board, HOA and as a non-member have not real input into how or why things are done and if they are done to your satisfaction.

I sense you have cultivated an attitude of conflict between you and the HOA board. And that you are searching for disagreements with which you can express your feelings of being less than because you are a tenant. On the one hand you praise the community and property where you live and on the other hand you question, insult and make more difficult the job of the very same people who manage the affairs of this same property. You praise your neighbors while failing to understand those same neighbors include the volunteer members of the board.

My guess would be more effort has been required, more time needed to address this whole tree issue by the members of this board. Along with the "normal" responsibilities they shoulder which you and the other residents simply get to enjoy. In my view your role was to complicate this matter even further. Which was unfortunate. In the end it now appears whatever cost to you will be covered so you have lost nothing out of pocket. Nor were you disrespected or your rights violated. But you did inject conflict and unnecessary demands when none was needed.

Hell they do yard work around your home and plug their power tools into your outlets. And you flew off the handle demanding they first obtain your permission. Just how drastic and unnecessary was that?

My Father would say " if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem". In my view you were part of the problem. Not a mountain in the real world more like an ant hill....

Respectfully, do such comments encourage tenants to contribute to positive outcomes ?

A separate issue is whether or not they are even valid as to the specifics of CD3 Idaho.

CD3 may have a tough time getting any offset from anyone at all for water he will apparently be billed for. Not the least will be that the Board may refuse it even to resident owners - much less to a group without either vote nor equity - and may consider there is no liability at all.

An incentive to deny water nor more next time . . .

I think many of us agreed the HOA handled it poorly and the OP should be reimbursed for the water usage. That said, as a renter they do not have the same rights and privileges of an owner no matter how hard they try to.

Chester or Banks as your only claim to fame regarding HOAs is the fact yours sued you what point were you trying to make?

No one suggested the tenant should cover the water cost. But thanks for adding your usual insight to the conversation. Did you bother to read this thread?

The OP is a tenant with now contractual relationship with the HOA. Nor do they have the right to demand, question or critique the members of the board elected by the unit owners. Those owners making up the HOA.

The OP went out of their way to cause confrontation when cooperation was requested. Including the ridiculous demand the landscaper's obtain their permission before using their electrical outlets to do yard work around their property.

Now as someone who never has nor ever will actually serve on a board seems impossible for you to EVER consider a board member's point of view.

Anyone with an issue with their HOA gets your blind support. Time and time again. And in this case your point was the OP not pay for the water.
Who suggested anything else? Is that really all you have to offer? Guess so.

Not to worry another crazy train will be pulling in at some point and your front row seat will be waiting for you while you claim the engineer has a different perspective that should be valued. And then you change your account to avoid any further valuable perspective from this same individual from finding you.
Jumped off that train pretty quick.
Maybe if you ever sat on a board you and others might understand why people who waste the board's time are not appreciated much. But for you not likely.

Chester (Banks) this is a site for those who serve on HOA boards or volunteer their time in community service. You do neither.

You were sued by your own HOA and show a clear bias against HOA boards in any and all communities
with little if any real knowledge or understanding as to the actual facts.

Your service on the daycare board has little real value on this site other than your simpleminded attempt to puff up your own
resume. Has this board service of yours mellowed the negative feelings your neighbors and HOA board members still feel towards you?
So like me they were not all that impressed.

Your posts don't upset me I just want it to be clear exactly who and what you are. And how your being sued has affected your
opinions and viewpoints to the point you can see nothing else.

I don't think so, I think this is a place for members of a HOA

I am fairly confident that this site is for both those who have/are serving on the Board/Committees and the members that make up the Association. I base this on the forums posting rules which state:

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

Yes, but per my section, all are welcome providing that they are here with a willingness to learn in a positive way.

Heck, I came here because I had an issue with my Association.
I was not serving at the time but wanted to resolve the issue (even if it required going to court).
The regular posters on this site asked a lot of hard questions and some even took the Associations position. In hind sight, I see that both perspectives had merit and it helped me better address my issue and other issues I discovered in the process.