Need Help on Homeowner Charging for Events on Common Areas

Started by LisaR16 • 10 replies • 1519 views

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LisaR16 (Virginia)
Posts: 3

Posted:

All:

I need some assistance. We have a homeowner who is offering Yoga on our common area pier in the mornings. She has not run this past the HOA Board, nor has she asked permission to use the common areas. PLUS, she is charging $5 a person.

What would you guys do? Let it be? Tell her that it needs to be a community sanctioned event? Tell her that she cannot charge?

And who is responsible if someone gets hurt doing the yoga? Her because it's her "event"? Or the HOA because it's on common area property?

Thanks for your input.

Lisa

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

The first thing that occurs to me is association liability and that alone would scare me.

LisaR16 (Virginia)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Yes, I've got a call in to our attorney to figure out what our liability might be. Albeit, then I wonder... if a homeowner decided to do Yoga on the pier by themselves one morning, wouldn't the HOA be equally liable if they got hurt? Or is it because it's a (seemingly HOA sanctioned) event that we set ourselves up for liability?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Discuss with your HOA insurance agent.

Probably a big difference between normal use and commercial activity.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I would also find out if the participants include non members of the Association.

There would be less of an issue if the class was all members (as they have a right to use the common areas).

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I don’t think yoga is so rigorous that one would roll around and land in the water (although you can get a hell of a workout getting in and out of those stands!) but because this is common area and crazy things happen, this probably calls for some sort of hearing between this homeowner and the Board to find out what’s going on.

I don’t think you can stop her from charging, but if this is common area, you should be able to prohibit her from using the grounds without permission – she can hold her classes elsewhere and deal with the liability issues on her own dime. I know you’re consulting your attorney, but why haven’t you spoke to the Association insurance company for further guidance – maybe it’s time for the Board to set some guidelines on holding events where people will be charged admission (should the sponsoring homeowner be required to purchase some sort of liability insurance to cover the event?)

If she hasn’t asked permission, talk to your attorney and then send her a letter posthaste (or have him/her do it), telling her to stop right now, reminding her of the appropriate use of the common area (check your documents to quote the right verbiage). Actually, you might want to start with having the property manager send the letter – if/when the attorney gets involved, I’d charge the homeowner for that cost

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

LisaR16(VA) Respectfully it's yoga, not bull-fighting.

But whatever it is, don't groups of yoga-loving owners have a matching consistent right to use their common area like any other owner group as long as they are no more disruptive of others' usage rights than allowed in your by-laws /rules ?

I don't see that their willingness to pay $ 5 each per yoga session really undermines that. But an enterprise that only brings in non-member participants may do exactly that. Members & non-members may be trickier, as Tim B4 raises.

Anyway , why not get get your counsel's & insurer's blessing for an indemnification/hold harmless document signed by all participants & by and the ( ? pro bono ?) yoga guide ? It might contain unilateral termination provisions or term certain authorization periods to let you assess the effects.

2- Worth considering if anything is being done by the yoga activity contrary to your bylaws/rules or your programming for the common area ? Do you see objections eg dirty old men being bothered by skimpy yoga attire ?

JosephG6 (Florida)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Does any of your governing documents cover or address the running of a business within the community?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Joseph,

VA statutes, specifically VA § 55-513.2, covers home base businesses:

Except to the extent the declaration provides otherwise, no association shall prohibit any lot owner from operating a home-based business within his personal residence. The association may, however, establish (i) reasonable restrictions as to the time, place, and manner of the operation of a home-based business and (ii) reasonable restrictions as to the size, place, duration, and manner of the placement or display of any signs on the owner's lot related to such home-based business. Any home-based business shall comply with all applicable local ordinances.

LisaR16 (Virginia)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Certainly it's not bull fighting, and we don't expect anyone to get gored, trampled, or otherwise bloodied, but you can never tell what will happen.

We have put in a call to our Insurance Agent, and to our Attorney to determine our liability.

And our Declarations do state. pertaining to Use, "No Party shall make any private, exclusive, or proprietary use of the Open Space, the Open Space Improvements, or any portion thereof without the prior written approval of the Board, which shall only have the authority to approve such use on a temporary basis."

So, we are concerned with (a) the fact that the resident didn't follow the declarations, (b) the Association's liability if someone does get injured, (c) how the Yoga instructor will prevent non-residents from attending, and (d)how to inform the entire community - since the Yoga Instructor has not done so.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LisaR16 on 06/13/2016 7:10 AM
. . . a homeowner who is offering Yoga on our common area pier in the mornings. She has not run this past the HOA Board, nor has she asked permission to use the common areas. PLUS, she is charging $5 a person. . . . . And who is responsible if someone gets hurt doing the yoga? Her because it's her "event" ? Or the HOA because it's on common area property ? Lisa

LisaR16 Va : As long as your Board applies the same yardstick to yoga/anything else on common elements & liberally applies owner rights to the extent of prudent governance, just how wrong could things go ?

Well even passive-looking activity like yoga on a pier might bring some risks :

someone gets a sliver up their behind ? . . . someone steps on a fishing hook ? . . . trips over a folding mooring cleat ? . . . . has a heatstroke, falls overboard and rescue is next hampered by allegedly defective life-safety devices ? How many lawyers have fought & died for the right of everyone to litigate until every last dollar is spent ? . . .

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