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KimC6 (Kansas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Our HOA is made up of 100 townhouses and the HOA is responsible for the maintenance and repair of driveways, patios and sidewalks. Our townhouse is on a small hill with a retaining wall that 3 years ago began falling apart to the point that erosion began occurring to our backyard. It took the HOA two years before they repaired the wall and in the mean time the concrete steps leading from the patio door to the patio began leaning, then the steps began cracking and finally portions began sinking. We repeatedly asked the HOA to fix this problem and they would either state it was on the repair list and would be fixed in 6 months, would be fixed based on priority and finally repaired when the HOA had the money to do so.

Six months ago, as my husband was going out the patio door to the backyard, a piece of the step broke off, he loss his balance and fell, breaking his arm in two places. Besides some medical bills, he also was out of work for awhile. The HOA stated they were not liable for any injuries due to a clause in the governing documents that states: "The Association will not be liable to homeowners for any injury or damage resulting from latent conditions of the property that is to be maintained and repaired by the Association". Can they really not be held responsible for injury due to neglect?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Each state's laws are different.

But generally speaking, latent conditions are those that can't be identified during site inspection and following reasonable investigation.

What you described doesn't sound to me like a latent condition. So I think you can challenge their response.

Also, you probably want to get a copy of the HOA insurance policy. Find out what coverage the HOA has for what happened. Don't let them put you off.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Kim,

Liability is usually something to be determined by the courts although one can contract his right to recourse away. I would ask which of the governing documents you were referring to. If this is a provision found in the recorded declaration it might hold up. If it is in the bylaws or a board resolution it might not be worth the paper it was printed on.

Regardless, no one ever says, "Gee, I'm sorry. Here is a bag of money to ease your worries." Call one of those personal injury attorneys who advertise on TV and get their opinion. The association may not be liable for the personal injury but they may be liable for breach of duty in failing to maintain the premises. That is why you should seek the opinion of an attorney.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Or, YOU may be negligent by virtue of CONTINUING TO USE A KNOWN HAZARD without having taken remedial action to mitigate said hazard.

Sorry for the 'tough love', but why did you not seek legal advice when the Covenant was violated, especially for a 'safety issue'?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 06/10/2016 5:05 AM
Or, YOU may be negligent by virtue of CONTINUING TO USE A KNOWN HAZARD without having taken remedial action to mitigate said hazard.

Sorry for the 'tough love', but why did you not seek legal advice when the Covenant was violated, especially for a 'safety issue'?

OP didn't say that there was anything in the docs about an obligation to "mitigate". Only "latent conditions."

The problem with your argument is that - if it's a "known hazard" - then it's impossible for the HOA to claim that it was a "latent condition." {See my prior post}


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:

OP didn't say that there was anything in the docs about an obligation to "mitigate".


Correct.

However, tort law requires that the 'injured party' make a reasonable attempt to mitigate said known damage or known danger.

A known hazard needed to be addressed/mitigated.

Us HOA members are still societal members subject to societal law. (?grammar?)

eg.
if you have a known 'hazard tree' on your property and it falls and damages your roof your insurance would NOT be required to pay as you did not mitigate the KNOWN condition

should said tree have fallen while an attempt to remove same (mitigate the danger) THEN the insurance would pay

after said tree falls, you fail to protect the hole in the roof with a 'tarp', or make a good faith attempt to do so, the company would NOT be required to pay for resulting rain water damage

you placed a tarp over hole = company pays

common law 101
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimC6 on 06/09/2016 8:03 PM

. . then the steps began cracking and finally portions began sinking. We repeatedly asked the HOA to fix this problem . . . The HOA stated they were not liable for any injuries due to a clause in the governing documents that states: "The Association will not be liable to homeowners for any injury or damage resulting from latent conditions of the property that is to be maintained and repaired by the Association". Can they really not be held responsible for injury due to neglect ?

Kim C6 (Kan) Good comments above.

Hope you can prove notified - in writing hopefully - that the stairs were continuing to deteriorate unsafely & require completion of the job. Inspection obligations aside, if these stairs were out of sight from external view ? behind fencing etc ? concealed by your own landscaping ? and still being used by the occupants. Were they 'patent' or should be visible to HOA representative . Or "We have nor record you ever complained. You also allowed plants etc to grow etc & conceal the deterioration ?

Classic latent : first time ever, cladding falls off upper floor without any foreseeable nor inspection-detectable indicators. Determinable only by intrusive hands-on. But begs questions like : Did cladding failures elsewhere create reasonable duty to instrusively investigate ?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 06/10/2016 7:04 AM
Posted By KimC6 on 06/09/2016 8:03 PM

. . then the steps began cracking and finally portions began sinking. We repeatedly asked the HOA to fix this problem . . . The HOA stated they were not liable for any injuries due to a clause in the governing documents that states: "The Association will not be liable to homeowners for any injury or damage resulting from latent conditions of the property that is to be maintained and repaired by the Association". Can they really not be held responsible for injury due to neglect ?


Kim C6 (Kan) Good comments above.

Hope you can prove notified - in writing hopefully - that the stairs were continuing to deteriorate unsafely & require completion of the job. Inspection obligations aside, if these stairs were out of sight from external view ? behind fencing etc ? concealed by your own landscaping ? and still being used by the occupants. Were they 'patent' or should be visible to HOA representative . Or "We have nor record you ever complained. You also allowed plants etc to grow etc & conceal the deterioration ?

Classic latent : first time ever, cladding falls off upper floor without any foreseeable nor inspection-detectable indicators. Determinable only by intrusive hands-on. But begs questions like : Did cladding failures elsewhere create reasonable duty to instrusively investigate ?

Regardless of anyone's point of view, there shouldn't be any disagreement on one thing. The HOA had an obligation to inspect.

This raises the question - did they actually inspect or did they just put the OP off? If no record of inspection, then "latent condition" claim is meaningless.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 06/10/2016 7:01 AM

OP didn't say that there was anything in the docs about an obligation to "mitigate".


Correct.

However, tort law requires that the 'injured party' make a reasonable attempt to mitigate said known damage or known danger.

A known hazard needed to be addressed/mitigated.

Us HOA members are still societal members subject to societal law. (?grammar?)

eg.
if you have a known 'hazard tree' on your property and it falls and damages your roof your insurance would NOT be required to pay as you did not mitigate the KNOWN condition

should said tree have fallen while an attempt to remove same (mitigate the danger) THEN the insurance would pay

after said tree falls, you fail to protect the hole in the roof with a 'tarp', or make a good faith attempt to do so, the company would NOT be required to pay for resulting rain water damage

you placed a tarp over hole = company pays

common law 101

Maybe not. Better example than hazard tree would be walking on street that should have but hasn't been plowed. Slip-and-Fall 201.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimC6 on 06/09/2016 8:03 PM
. . . a piece of the step broke off, he loss (lost) his balance and fell . . . "The Association will not be liable to homeowners for any injury or damage resulting from latent conditions of the property that is to be maintained and repaired by the Association". Can they really not be held responsible for injury due to neglect?

KimC6 :
1- Could this broken step actually be a product liability case ( deficiency claim ) instead of some want of due care in discharging a HOA duty ?

2- If the HOA is like many municipalities in my jurisdiction, a statutory 7 day deadline to notify is regularly slapped onto victims after a slip & fall sidewalk injury. ( "We don't care if you were unconscious in the hospital" ! ! )

KimC6 (Kansas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thank you for the information. The door/step is the only way into our backyard, I did notify the HOA of the injury the next day and many of the requests for repair was in writing as well as photos taken of the steps. We will contact an attorney.

The rules and regulations state the HOA is responsible for repairs and maintenance but then the HOA has one excuse after another for not doing it: no money, will do it next year, will do it after another repair is done, etc. How long do you wait before it should be apparent to a court that they are not abiding by the contract? So many members have complained about the issue of repairs and yet year after year the same people get re-elected. And yes my husband and others have run for office and lost, asked to be on committees and been denied and volunteered for other activities and been ignored. Anyways again thank you and we will be contacting an attorney about the injury and neglect.

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