Voting for Directors

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

We are about to have an election of directors for our Condo Assoc. Sadly we have heard that one owner has decided he will vote for the same person for all five directors.

Is it allowable for us to instruct them that all 5 cannot be the same person.

This person is just wasting his and our time and might as well not even vote. I wonder if we have the authority to throw his ballot out?

Help if you can asap please.

Many Thanks!

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 12:47 PM

Is it allowable for us to instruct them that all 5 cannot be the same person.

You'd have to read your CC&Rs. If the election isn't the top five, but is of individual offices, then it is probably allowed. It becomes sticky if he wins multiple offices. But that is only after the fact.

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 12:47 PM

This person is just wasting his and our time and might as well not even vote. I wonder if we have the authority to throw his ballot out?

It isn't your business if he wastes his time, and exactly how much of your time is he wasting?

Please answer to the nearest minute.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

If your docs allow Cumulative Voting, he'w acting within his rights.

Whenever I've seen cumulative voting, it's always been described in the HOA docs.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulative_voting

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 12:47 PM
We are about to have an election of directors for our Condo Assoc. Sadly we have heard that one owner has decided he will vote for the same person for all five directors.

Is it allowable for us to instruct them that all 5 cannot be the same person.

This person is just wasting his and our time and might as well not even vote. I wonder if we have the authority to throw his ballot out?

Help if you can asap please.

Many Thanks!

What you have is "cumulative voting" which was/is in every association's governing IF there was a developer/builder involved. Cumulative voting insured that the developer/builder remained in majority on a BOD while there were still in control. Many associations, once turned over, will have that portion amended to remove.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 1:19 PM

What you have is "cumulative voting" which was/is in every association's governing IF there was a developer/builder involved. Cumulative voting insured that the developer/builder remained in majority on a BOD while there were still in control. Many associations, once turned over, will have that portion amended to remove.

It may be in many or most, but certainly not all. Ours disallow cumulative voting as originally written by the developer.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

NpS & RichardP13 - Thank you both for your help. I continued reading my docs after posting the question. Had to see which would get me a faster response.
Anyway, I finally found in our documents that "Cumulative Voting" is not allowed.

MarkM31 - Thank you for your response but the snarky comment at the bottom along with your question was completely unnecessary. I get on here for quick help not snarky comments about my thoughts.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 1:48 PM
NpS & RichardP13 - Thank you both for your help. I continued reading my docs after posting the question. Had to see which would get me a faster response.
Anyway, I finally found in our documents that "Cumulative Voting" is not allowed.

MarkM31 - Thank you for your response but the snarky comment at the bottom along with your question was completely unnecessary. I get on here for quick help not snarky comments about my thoughts.

If the person cast all 5 for one, then only one should be counted. I don't believe it shouldn't be throw out as the intention was to vote for at least one.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/07/2016 1:46 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 1:19 PM

What you have is "cumulative voting" which was/is in every association's governing IF there was a developer/builder involved. Cumulative voting insured that the developer/builder remained in majority on a BOD while there were still in control. Many associations, once turned over, will have that portion amended to remove.

It may be in many or most, but certainly not all. Ours disallow cumulative voting as originally written by the developer.

I am curious, how did the developer insure they would remain in the majority as the project was being developed?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 2:47 PM

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 1:48 PM
NpS & RichardP13 - Thank you both for your help. I continued reading my docs after posting the question. Had to see which would get me a faster response.
Anyway, I finally found in our documents that "Cumulative Voting" is not allowed.

MarkM31 - Thank you for your response but the snarky comment at the bottom along with your question was completely unnecessary. I get on here for quick help not snarky comments about my thoughts.

If the person cast all 5 for one, then only one should be counted. I don't believe it shouldn't be throw out as the intention was to vote for at least one.

Agree with Richard. Still has one good vote.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes, one vote can be counted imo, too. You can let him know that, but it should be clear in the written voting instructions that you send (I assume) to Owners.

This man does know that he also isn't voting for officers, only directors, right?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

One of the things we had our Declarant do prior to turning over the association we owners, was to strike down cumulative voting while he still had to power to do so.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

You did the right thing, John, we're still stuck with it 15 years later and for the first time in the 11 I've levied here, someone announced for it last year and so there were were!
(No, no luck revising our Bylaws a few years ago)

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 2:48 PM

Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/07/2016 1:46 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 1:19 PM
What you have is "cumulative voting" which was/is in every association's governing IF there was a developer/builder involved. Cumulative voting insured that the developer/builder remained in majority on a BOD while there were still in control. Many associations, once turned over, will have that portion amended to remove.

It may be in many or most, but certainly not all. Ours disallow cumulative voting as originally written by the developer.

I am curious, how did the developer insure they would remain in the majority as the project was being developed?

The declarant had 8 votes per lot owned, turnover occurred when the declarant had fewer votes than the homeowners. Before turnover they had the votes to control the association without any cumulative voting, I assumed this was the way it was typically done.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 1:48 PM

MarkM31 - Thank you for your response but the snarky comment at the bottom along with your question was completely unnecessary. I get on here for quick help not snarky comments about my thoughts.

You were complaining about wasting time. I want to know just exactly how much time you are concerned about wasting. Counting the individuals vote five times takes what? Fifteen seconds? My point remains that there is not much time being wasted.

Carry on

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 1:48 PM
NpS & RichardP13 - Thank you both for your help. I continued reading my docs after posting the question. Had to see which would get me a faster response.
Anyway, I finally found in our documents that "Cumulative Voting" is not allowed.

So you asked a question even though you had not fully read your documents, in order to save yourself time at the expense of those who responded to you. So in fact you wasted our time!!!

Just because you were hoping to do less reading!!!!!????

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Haha - at the expense of those who responded. Give me a break. There are people still responding even after I posted that I found my answer.
If my use of this site bothers you then get off this site because I will return anytime I have a question.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

You were chiding me for using this board

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 12:47 PM
. . . Sadly we have heard that one owner has decided he will vote for the same person for all five directors. Is it allowable for us to instruct them that all 5 cannot be the same person. This person is just wasting his and our time and might as well not even vote. I wonder if we have the authority to throw his ballot out?

MarleneP1 Tx : respectfully HOW would you usually know how a particular owner or shareholder chose to cast his or her ballots ( unless it is a visible show of hands or recorded vote ?) . 5 ballots return without owner-identification marked on them ?

Would governance suffer if someone stacked his/her ballots all onto one candidate ? I think the rule against stacking might ( ? ) be called 'equal & even selection".

Should there be "Instructors as to Wastage" ? If an individual thought all but one candidate are dangerous idiots, is it theoretically defensible to nullify his/her voting weight by refusing to accept the stackeds 2 to 5 ?

Not as easy an issue as it might look.

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Thanks for your response. I have found that our Association does not allow cumulative voting. The election information, when it is sent is going out with all of the specifics including the fact they are only voting for directors not officers.

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/08/2016 1:19 PM
Thanks for your response. I have found that our Association does not allow cumulative voting. The election information, when it is sent is going out with all of the specifics including the fact they are only voting for directors not officers.

I have found that cumulative voting is NOT allowed with the Association. As to actual voting - thus far the adoption of electronic voting has not happened. In the works however. paper ballots and show of hands are what is currently used. Of course Proxies are provided.

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/07/2016 1:19 PM

Posted By MarleneP1 on 06/07/2016 12:47 PM
We are about to have an election of directors for our Condo Assoc. Sadly we have heard that one owner has decided he will vote for the same person for all five directors.

Is it allowable for us to instruct them that all 5 cannot be the same person.

This person is just wasting his and our time and might as well not even vote. I wonder if we have the authority to throw his ballot out?

Help if you can asap please.

Many Thanks!

What you have is "cumulative voting" which was/is in every association's governing IF there was a developer/builder involved. Cumulative voting insured that the developer/builder remained in majority on a BOD while there were still in control. Many associations, once turned over, will have that portion amended to remove.

Thanks for your response.

MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Thanks to all who have been a help.

We are/were under the control of a successor Declarant. They are the one's who Amended the documents to forbid cumulative voting.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Some need to do their homework. A Declarant having say 8 votes per lot is not the same thing as cumulative voting.